Re-Thinking the Rotation

[Irish]

In another thread, someone mentioned that Tim Legler of ESPN radio was talking about Rush and said the Suns were looking for shooter to start at SG so they could bring Bell in off the bench.

I don't know if the Suns will even draft Rush nor whether this really is Kerr's plan, but ASSUMING it is true, IMHO it's pretty interesting. Up to this point I've been assuming the plan was to get a backup for Hill. If this really is the plan, it has several implications:

1. Leaves Barbosa exclusiively at PG. D'Antoni used Barbosa a lot at both guard slots, but when Nash and Barbosa were teamed up their defense suffered. Whether or not Barbosa stays, this would seriously reduce Barbosa's minutes.

2. Removes Giricek From The Rotation: Gordan was used primarily as a SG, but with Rush, Bell, and sometimes Barbaosa head of him, he falls out of the rotation.

3. Alters Hill's Backup's Satuus: It is possible that Rush could still be Hill's backup. Last season Bell was teamed with Barbosa to get three point shooting into the SF slot. But if Rush is at SG, then the backup position might go to Diaw. If they used Rush as the primary backup for Hill, it would mean Diaw would be used exclusively inisde; but Rush at SG might be part of a plan to move Diaw outside.

If Diaw is moved outside, it puts extra emphasis on finding greater depth on the inside.

Using Diaw at SF is also consistent with plans to run a more overt "point forward" offense with either Hill or Diaw handling the ball. This would not be limited to when Barbosa is in the lineup, but also as variant when Nash is being pounded since Nash is a great off the ball shooter. (Bowen's effect on Nash would be negated in a point forward attack). Point forward uses Barbosa off the ball in the half court, but without the defensive issues of playing with Nash.

This would create a nine man rotation that limited small ball to special situation rather than all the time.

INSIDE: Shaq, Amare, Skinner
SF - Hill and Diaw
SG - Rush and Bell
PG - Nash and Barbosa

 

[BC867]

Good post. But I think that Barbosa's only value is as instant offense off the bench as a sporadic undersized 2-Guard, rather than backup Point Guard.

I guess I don't like Leandro as backup PG because that encourages wearing Nash down. Or playing them side-by-side in the 4th quarter.

Having Hill or Diaw as Point Forward would best be utilized to take pressure off Nash when he is on the floor. We still need a legitimate backup Point Guard in the regular rotation.

 

[Sovereignz]

In my opinion, if Porter is coming in with a clean slate mentality, there's really no possible explanation for Barbosa being ahead of Giricek in the rotation. This team would be much better off trading Barbosa and signing Giricek to a 3 year or so contract.

This team was 5 points better a game defensively with Barbosa off the court on defense, but they were ALSO 2 points better offensively when he wasn't in! What, exactly, is his value if he makes us significantly worse on both ends of the court when he's in the game and has been known to absolutely crumble under the pressure of playoff defense? I really just wish we'd move him.

 

[JS22]

Are the Suns even going to keep Giricek around? If they do, then Barbosa will most likely be shopped around for a pure PG.

 

[Irish]

Are the Suns even going to keep Giricek around? If they do, then Barbosa will most likely be shopped around for a pure PG.

That is certainly a logical conclusion, but that does not mean it will happen. In any case, the teaming of Steve and Leandro in the backcourt could easily be a thing of the past unless Leadrno gets a lot better on defense (seems unlikely).

Can point forward make up for Barbosa's lack of playmaking skills? Baring a trade, IMHO it would have to.

Gordan's situation may not be related to Leadnro's. Gordan played well last season, but he does not seem well suited to playing SF. This means that if Legler is right, Gordan falls to the deep bench.

Obviously I'd love to keep him and that may happen. It would give the Suns excellant depth and not just a Pike type cheer leader. My only thought was that he's not likely to get rotation minutes if Rush is mostly at SG.

 

[Mainstreet]

Are the Suns even going to keep Giricek around? If they do, then Barbosa will most likely be shopped around for a pure PG.

The Suns need to keep Giricek even if they draft another shooter. The Suns really needed another shooter when they shipped off James Jones to spread the floor. Even adding Giricek, it was not enough. I do think you're right, Barbosa may be shopped for a pure PG or any player at a need spot. As I recall the Suns will go with their primary pick (PG, Wing or a big) at #15 and that will dictate who they go after at #48 and in turn who they look at in FA. Griffin identified their needs as a Big, SF and a PG, but not in that order.

 

[overseascardfan]

If Barbosa doesn't get traded for a SG then there is the possibility of going after Mikael Pietrus, and trading Barbosa for a PG of draft picks and pick up a PG in the draft. I am hoping for a JaVale McGee at 15, who can learn playing behind Shaq and Amare.

 

[Irish]

All the reviews I've read view McGee as a project. Also, Griffin said that McGee does not "bring it" all the time.

The middle of the first round is not really good for people looking for point guards. Augustine and Westbrook are almost certainly going to be gone (plus they have some issues), while Lawson and Chalmers are viewed as late first round guys. I don't see anybody who has a skill set that looks like a long range solution. Between Lawson and Westbrook, the latter seems like the better choice physically but is less of a playmaker.

A lot of people have suggested trading Barbosa for Lowry. The problem is that he averages only 43.2% and just 25.7% for three. With that kind of shooting, I'd be inclined to keep working on Strawberry's shooting since he's bigger, even more athletic, potentially a much better defender and has playmaking skills. Getting a PG that is not a good shooter makes little sense to me.

 

[WuRaider]

I hope Porter tries Boris out at backup PG. On defense it won't hurt at all, he did a great job on Duncan and Parker, two extreme opposites.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I hope porter whips Doris into shape, regardless of what position he plays.

 

[Mainstreet]

A lot of people have suggested trading Barbosa for Lowry. The problem is that he averages only 43.2% and just 25.7% for three. With that kind of shooting, I'd be inclined to keep working on Strawberry's shooting since he's bigger, even more athletic, potentially a much better defender and has playmaking skills. Getting a PG that is not a good shooter makes little sense to me.

I wish I could say Strawberry looked like an an up and coming PG this past season. He showed me some great athleticism and played a little defense but that is about it. He is definitely not a good outside shooter. Also Strawberry had a chance to display his skills whereas Tucker didn't (not that it matters when discussing the PG position). All I wanted to see is Strawberry have a stretch where he played like a true PG. If he did, I missed it. Alton Ford is another player I never had a moment where I felt he arrived as a solid NBA player.

I sure hope Strawberry proves me completely wrong. He would solve a lot of problems if he could play PG for the Suns. I do think the Suns will be looking for a new PG in the offseason.

 

[LV-Suns]

Don't remember DJ playing much minutes at PG other than the last game of the season. He had 7 assists that game.

An other game he played PG was against Utah where we got blown out into the water. He played the whole 4th q. I was fairly impressed in that game. He even knocked down some jumpshots too.

 

[AceP]

Boris Diaw should and must be shipped out.

He can NOT play SF at all! Starting or backup. He is not fast enough to defend SF, he has no shooting range, nor consistency, and he only passes well for post, when he plays at perimeter, his passing sucks.

How about PF? Even b4 Shaq came, he could't get the starting PF job! I still remember 1 or 2 years ago, many fans and medias talked about an ideal lineup of Marion at SF, Diaw PF, Amare C, which never worked out.

I urge u guys to realise the simple fact: that Boris Diaw is not going to find a starting job here in Phoenix. And 9M is simple way too expensive for a bench player!!!

We all know our problem and solution. We got to add at least one true wing player who can provide really high quality defence at SF position, and of course, consistent 3 shooting!

Ideally, by trading Diaw we should get a star SF, but we have never heard about another team interested beside New York, and there is none in their roster fit our need.

Thus, Brandon Rush is undoubtably the ideal choice in draft. The other players we worked out might have more upside, but none has much defence ability, nor matured enough, and, pay attention to Rush's stats, he made more than 42% of 3s throughout 3 college seasons, way above any other choices.

And/Or, we can always use MLE to sign an experienced one, such as Pietrus of GSW (unrestricted FA), and James Jones (player option, 3.1M), and even James Posey (PO, 3.4M). Guys, see how easy and how cheap it is to find a defensive 3p shooting SF?

But we all know Sarvar would not allow Kerr to go far into tax land. Trade Diaw and reduce the pay roll for a few million, this is a key point.

 

[Mainstreet]

Don't remember DJ playing much minutes at PG other than the last game of the season. He had 7 assists that game.

An other game he played PG was against Utah where we got blown out into the water. He played the whole 4th q. I was fairly impressed in that game. He even knocked down some jumpshots too.

I'm glad you see something in him that I don't. I wonder why Griffin is talking about adding a PG to the roster? It could be Griffin just does not think Strawberry is ready yet or covering his bets. To be honest, in Strawberry and Tucker who knows what the Suns have.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am sick of "trying" people as point guards. I want a REAL backup point. Not Barbosa, not Dirty Diaw, and most definitely not DJ.

 

[SirStefan32]

As far as Rush goes, if Suns are looking into replacing Bell in the starting lineup... why not extend Giricek? We know he can shoot, and we know he can play D. Why gamble on a rookie?

 

[LV-Suns]

I'm glad you see something in him that I don't. I wonder why Griffin is talking about adding a PG to the roster? It could be Griffin just does not think Strawberry is ready yet or covering his bets. To be honest, in Strawberry and Tucker who knows what the Suns have.

DJ has some PG skills that LB doesn't. He is probably at a Rondo level when he was drafted. Even though DJ was drafted as a SG, he played PG full-time in his junior year.

Obviously we are not looking to make DJ our future PG. But he has decent skills to cut into Nash's minutes next year, maybe 15-18 mins. if DJ turns into a complete flop as back-up, we could always go with a Point-Forward with Diaw or Hill. DJ can be used for his strong defense, he was supposed to be the best perimeter defender in last years draft.

Tucker is most likely warming pine next year too.

 

[AceP]

As far as Rush goes, if Suns are looking into replacing Bell in the starting lineup... why not extend Giricek? We know he can shoot, and we know he can play D. Why gamble on a rookie?

First, Rush is more of a SF than a SG. He is measured at 6-7 with awesome wingspan nearly 7ft.

Second, Bell is getting older, already 32, and his contract end at 2010. Rush would become the starting SG by then.

We can and should keep Giricek even if we draft Rush, we have plenty of space in rotation. Nash, Barbosa, Bell, Giricek, Rush, Hill, 5 for 3 positions is just about ok. We can even add another backup PG.

 

[LV-Suns]

As far as Rush goes, if Suns are looking into replacing Bell in the starting lineup... why not extend Giricek? We know he can shoot, and we know he can play D. Why gamble on a rookie?

Looks like Giricek wont be returning next year.

The Suns want a shooter, as shown by how Gordan Giricek, a free agent, arrived late and played extensively last season.

"We probably need to address filling that role," Griffin said.

"Frankly, we miss James Jones from the standpoint of his shooting. Grant Hill has been an unbelievable asset to us. But with Grant, it gives you even more ability to play with a spot-up shooter because he can create all the plays for people. It puts an even bigger onus for us to find a shooter."

http://www.azcentral.com

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns want a shooter, as shown by how Gordan Giricek, a free agent, arrived late and played extensively last season.

"We probably need to address filling that role," Griffin said.

IMO, the Suns need to add more shooters rather than than reduce from those shooters they already have. I hate to try to quote Cotton, but he said something to the effect, a team can never have enough shooters.

Giricek will probably go for near the veteran minimum. The Suns should try to keep him.

 

[Mainstreet]

"We probably need to address filling that role," Griffin said.

"Frankly, we miss James Jones from the standpoint of his shooting. Grant Hill has been an unbelievable asset to us. But with Grant, it gives you even more ability to play with a spot-up shooter because he can create all the plays for people. It puts an even bigger onus for us to find a shooter."

Why don't the Suns just advertise they are drafting Rush. I don't think the Suns FO is smart enough to run a smokescreen.

 

[TucsonDevil]

Couple of points.

I don't see how that 'azcentral.com' quote is evidence of getting rid of GG. I read into it that he would be that guy to potentially fill that role.

Also, I don't think DJ got a fair shake during the season at PG. If I recall correctly, summer league 2007 featured DJ at PG and he was very good. Surprising many on the Suns' staff. Does a PG have to be a great shooter like a Nash? Especially a backup PG? Not really, he has to be able to keep the offense moving effeciently enough to allow Nash rest, and grow confidence in the PG that if the time should come...

Bell is already old, time to move on. Clearly he can't average 30+ min anymore, and shouldn't have played that much last season. LB can't be the filler for Bell at SG... I agreed with an earlier post to give GG a shot at it.

Finally - Barbosa has to go. There are teams that need offense - the Suns need defense. If LB is perceived as an offensive spark, I hope the Suns can capitalize on that misconception. To me - LB = turnover when pressure is on.

 

[LV-Suns]

Couple of points.

I don't see how that 'azcentral.com' quote is evidence of getting rid of GG. I read into it that he would be that guy to potentially fill that role.

Also, I don't think DJ got a fair shake during the season at PG. If I recall correctly, summer league 2007 featured DJ at PG and he was very good. Surprising many on the Suns' staff. Does a PG have to be a great shooter like a Nash? Especially a backup PG? Not really, he has to be able to keep the offense moving effeciently enough to allow Nash rest, and grow confidence in the PG that if the time should come...

Yes. DJ was our PG in the summer league. He was also the APG leader last year with 6.4. I understand Summer League blows, but it also featured decent PGs like Robison, Farmar, Conley, and Foye.

Bell is already old, time to move on. Clearly he can't average 30+ min anymore, and shouldn't have played that much last season. LB can't be the filler for Bell at SG... I agreed with an earlier post to give GG a shot at it.

If GG resigns, we can actually hope to cut Bells mins down to about 30-32 range. Bell isn't really old, he is the same age as GG. Too much millage on his legs. Otherwise we could watch Bell play 38 mins a game & go down every other game with injuries.

Finally - Barbosa has to go. There are teams that need offense - the Suns need defense. If LB is perceived as an offensive spark, I hope the Suns can capitalize on that misconception. To me - LB = turnover when pressure is on.

Not a fan of LB either. I wouldn't mind moving him if the right deal comes up.

 

[Irish]

We don't really know what GG's market value is. My guess is that if it's no better than it was when released by the Sixers, he'll be back. On the other hand, I don't think the Suns will go much higher than that even though the gase can be made.

Bargin a trade or the acquisition of a new PG, I think DJ and Leandro will battle for the PG slot. Both have major issues.

One thing to keep in mind, Porter has a very good history developing point guards. It will be interesting to see what hd thinks.

Logic suggests that Leandro be traded for a real PG. My concern is that I haven't found anyone that fits that might be available.

 

[overseascardfan]

If we can somehow trade for a late 1st rounder, Mario Chalmers might be a great pick up. He can play defense and shoot, just needs to work on his play making. If we can get him and Porter can develop him then we have found our PG to replace Nash.