Rebuilding and Retooling Options

[Mainstreet]

I reread the the bolded quote for like a fifth time. I think Babby is talking about the time he acted as an agent for players.

 

[Mainstreet]

I found an article from the AP at ESPN dated 5-2-12 which gives a more detailed read about what Babby said in a luncheon with reporters.

It is not as simple, he said, as Nash saying he wants to come back. There are other issues, such as the amount of a contract and its length.

"We've got to go down a road with him and see if we can find a common path, a path that makes sense for him and then makes sense for us," Babby said. "Everybody here wants Steve Nash to retire as a Phoenix Sun and we're going to work very hard to work with him to see if that can happen, but it's got to be good not only for him but it's got to be good for us, and he understands that."

Babby is aware of criticism that the Suns erred by not trading Nash this season, thereby getting some value for him rather than see him walk away as a free agent. The Suns' executive, a former sports agent for the likes of Tim Duncan and Grant Hill, said that by not trading him, the team got the benefit of another season at which Nash played at a high level. Left unsaid was the fact that there was no way the Suns would get anything close to high value in such a deal.

Besides, Babby said, "if he doesn't come back, we're going to have $10 million more of cap space."

So are the Suns offering Nash a multi-year contract at $10M a year? At least it appears the Suns FO is thinking about the financial implications of signing Nash.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7883688/lon-babby-says-phoenix-suns-spend-money-just-spend-it

 

[Cheesebeef]

"The Suns' executive, a former sports agent for the likes of Tim Duncan and Grant Hill, said that by not trading him, the team got the benefit of another season at which Nash played at a high level."

they got the benefit of him at a high level... with nothing to show for it playoff wise and if he leaves, nothing to show for it personnel wise. great!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

"The Suns' executive, a former sports agent for the likes of Tim Duncan and Grant Hill, said that by not trading him, the team got the benefit of another season at which Nash played at a high level."

they got the benefit of him at a high level... with nothing to show for it playoff wise and if he leaves, nothing to show for it personnel wise. great!

Yeah, someone needs to explain to ol Lon what a "benefit" is. Propping up a pile of puke for no reward is not a benefit.

 

[mojorizen7]

1. We need to change the culture.
2. We need to respect our opponents.
3. We need to talk to our former players.
4. We need to talk about winning championships not about playoffs.

+1
It cant happen overnight though. Sort of like a torn ACL rehabilitation....it would require a strong owner who was willing to take it on the chin in the early stages,and work very hard in order to get there. Everybody in his front office would have to be very good,and on the same page....from the PR guy,to the accountants,to the basketball people,to the HC and the veteran players brought in to initially translate a new philosophy on the court.

 

[Folster]

So are the Suns offering Nash a multi-year contract at $10M a year? At least it appears the Suns FO is thinking about the financial implications of signing Nash.

No, I think he is referring to Nash's cap hold which should be about $10 million.

 

[Mainstreet]

No, I think he is referring to Nash's cap hold which should be about $10 million.

So if Nash walks as a FA there should be no cap hold for 2012-13 other than the money than his vacated salary frees under the cap. Nash made $11,689,062 in 2011-12. We are both likely saying the same thing.

However, I was just wondering if Babby might also be talking at the same time what Nash's salary might be for the 2012-13 if he remains a Sun. Probably not.

 

[cly2tw]

Babby has said on his weekly 620 radio visit that the Suns "will not get locked into long term deals to just spend up to the cap"

And of course his rah rah about keeping Nash is the #1 priority. This is why I am pretty sure their "plan" is to sign more older veterans to short term deals with Nash and keep trying to build a future roster with mid round picks.

Sounds like a sound Sarver plan to me.

 

[JS22]

Anyone hear Sarver on KTAR yesterday?

"Are you going to give Gentry an extension?"

"Lon talked about this on air yesterday and the simple answer is no."

Way to show that your franchise has any sense of stability, Robert. Gentry has done everything he can with the garbage you've given him. I'm sure FA's would love to come here with a lame duck coach and an owner that nobody likes.

But I know what you're doing. You need someone to blame when Nash leaves and the wheels come off next year. Can't blame Gentry if you give him an extension.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Anyone hear Sarver on KTAR yesterday?

"Are you going to give Gentry an extension?"

"Lon talked about this on air yesterday and the simple answer is no."

Way to show that your franchise has any sense of stability, Robert. Gentry has done everything he can with the garbage you've given him. I'm sure FA's would love to come here with a lame duck coach and an owner that nobody likes.

But I know what you're doing. You need someone to blame when Nash leaves and the wheels come off next year. Can't blame Gentry if you give him an extension.

yup. nothing says stability like a lame-duck coach. If Nash walks, they'd be doing everyone a favor and give Gentry his walking papers as well and start completely from scratch. it's not fair to the guy otherwise.

 

[SirStefan32]

yup. nothing says stability like a lame-duck coach. If Nash walks, they'd be doing everyone a favor and give Gentry his walking papers as well and start completely from scratch. it's not fair to the guy otherwise.

While it's clear that Gentry is being set up to take all the blame, and that's not fair to him, I actually don't really care, as long as they let the Suns fail next year and not do a half-assed attempt to make them competitive by overpaying for second tier talent (Gordon, Batum, Beasley, etc.)

 

[Cheesebeef]

While it's clear that Gentry is being set up to take all the blame, and that's not fair to him, I actually don't really care, as long as they let the Suns fail next year and not do a half-assed attempt to make them competitive by overpaying for second tier talent (Gordon, Batum, Beasley, etc.)

agreed. it's just pretty transparent what's going on and another sign of how the Suns treat it's own... which doesn't bode well to try to get another coach in here worth a damn.

 

[Gaddabout]

I think not throwing money at this team is a wise choice.

It would make so much more sense if there was any hint of inspiration, or even a notion of team identity. "Let's just go out and build a good basketball team" is how you get the Knicks. Or the Clippers. If the FO doesn't know what kind of team they want, it will always be a mish-mash of parts that don't fit and mediocre, overpaid veterans who don't understand their role (or worse, are asked to fill a role they're incapable of filling).

The Suns need someone in charge who comes in says, "This is what we are" and "This is what we're going to be." Base it on historical successful franchises. You know you need a big man who plays both ends of the floor and a guard who can handle the ball, run the offense, and score. They don't have to be PG/C, but you have to fill those skill sets with at least two players as featured players. Then you build around that with complimentary players as much as possible.

That Sarver or Babby have never stated anything like that is the most disconcerting part of this.

 

[SirStefan32]

agreed. it's just pretty transparent what's going on and another sign of how the Suns treat it's own... which doesn't bode well to try to get another coach in here worth a damn.

I agree. I've been defending the decision to not trade Nash by pointing out that it shows future potential recruits that we treat our people well. I think that should extend to coaches as well.

I think Alvin did a great job with the crap he was given to work with, and in my opinion, he deserves an extension.

 

[devilalum]

I have a different take on the Gentry situation. During the Nash era it seems like Bash has sort if called a lot of the shots and the coaching staff has more of a supporting role. If Nash lesves the Suns may need a new guy to take charge of the team.

 

[Mainstreet]

I have a different take on the Gentry situation. During the Nash era it seems like Bash has sort if called a lot of the shots and the coaching staff has more of a supporting role. If Nash lesves the Suns may need a new guy to take charge of the team.

I think you are right or very close to it. If Nash leaves, the Suns may want to go a different coaching. IMO, the Suns want to see how it all shakes out in the off-season and next season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

we need to save our money to give Harden the MAX next off-season when he'll be a restricted FA (if he even makes it that far without an extension).

That kid is a freaking STUD. MUCH better than I expected him to be.

 

[Mainstreet]

Anyone feeling sad the Suns missed the playoffs with SA leading Utah 2-0 and the Thunder eliminating the Mavericks 4-0. Sometimes a blessing can be (the Suns) not getting what they wanted, a playoff spot.

 

[devilalum]

Anyone feeling sad the Suns missed the playoffs with SA leading Utah 2-0 and the Thunder eliminating the Mavericks 4-0. Sometimes a blessing can be (the Suns) not getting what they wanted, a playoff spot.

And we do have a 1:10,000 chance of getting the #1 pick!

 

[Mainstreet]

And we do have a 1:10,000 chance of getting the #1 pick!

Whatever the Suns chances of getting a pick 1-3, they did improve their draft position at least a spot by not making the playoffs.

 

[asudevil83]

i think the suns should use their available cap space to absorb bad contract and gets picks in the process. the kings have 3 contracts up for extension this offseason (Thompson/Greene/Williams), and 1 more the following (Evans). they are an extremely young team, who can build around that, but they need to rid themselves of their bad contracts in order to retain their pieces. So....

1.) Salmons/2012 first for either 2013 protected first or unprotected second

2.) Salmons/Evans/2012 first for 2012 top 3 protected first.

the first trade lets them extend all of their FAs without having to go over the cap, and the second lets them get rid of Salmons and get some value for Evans.

 

[tobiazz]

Whatever the Suns chances of getting a pick 1-3, they did improve their draft position at least a spot by not making the playoffs.

It is 2.2% assuming Wikipedia is correct. And they actually "improved" by two spots since he finished behind Houston.

 

[hcsilla]

i think the suns should use their available cap space to absorb bad contract and gets picks in the process. the kings have 3 contracts up for extension this offseason (Thompson/Greene/Williams), and 1 more the following (Evans). they are an extremely young team, who can build around that, but they need to rid themselves of their bad contracts in order to retain their pieces. So....

1.) Salmons/2012 first for either 2013 protected first or unprotected second

2.) Salmons/Evans/2012 first for 2012 top 3 protected first.

the first trade lets them extend all of their FAs without having to go over the cap, and the second lets them get rid of Salmons and get some value for Evans.

Unfortunately (for us) Williams is a min. FA at the best while Greene is even less he is a likely candidate to let simply go by the Kings.

Thompson is a RFA whom they can keep quite easily.

Garcia's conctract will expire after next season and Salmons' a year after, Hayes' contract hurts them, but they aren't really in trouble financially, at least not so much that they should have sacrifice (a part of) their future for removing Salmons.

 

[Superbone]

Whatever the Suns chances of getting a pick 1-3, they did improve their draft position at least a spot by not making the playoffs.

Actually, the ended up moving up two spots.

Edit: tobiazz beat me to it.

 

[Waysouth]

Any chance the Suns go in bizzaro world and actual buy a draft pick instead of always selling? With all the cap space but not many big time FA, it might be a chance for a quicker rebuild.