Rebuilding: Who and how?

[mojorizen7]

Fair enough on the FO - I agree there are lots of questions how they will rebuild based on the last few years.

But show me where Nash is not making a sacrifice in the best interest of the team? The guy plays his guts out each night, win or lose, contender or not. More than you can say about most NBA players (Amare included, unfortunately).

Well thats the rub isn't it?
Nash HAS TO KNOW where this teams weaknesses are right?....its incredibly weak defensively.....yet the FO keeps putting pieces around him that suit Nash and his style of play....a style of play that perpetuates weak defensive teams built upon the jump shooting philosophy instead of defense and rebounding.

Should Nash just announce his retirement for the reasons i stated above? Of course not,that'd be a ludicrous self indictment of failure.
What he should do is go to the FO and either ask to be traded,or decide openly that its probably in the best interest of the team if he take a step back and take more of a backseat role to a team who'd be free to explore a different direction.

I hope that makes sense....i had 2 teeth pulled this afternoon and i'm currently feeling p-r-e-t-t-y l-o-o-p-y (in a good way if ya know what i mean)

 

[BC867]

....i had 2 teeth pulled this afternoon and i'm currently feeling p-r-e-t-t-y l-o-o-p-y (in a good way if ya know what i mean)

Was Channing Frye in the chair next to you, by any chance?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well thats the rub isn't it?
Nash HAS TO KNOW where this teams weaknesses are right?....its incredibly weak defensively.....yet the FO keeps putting pieces around him that suit Nash and his style of play....a style of play that perpetuates weak defensive teams built upon the jump shooting philosophy instead of defense and rebounding.

Should Nash just announce his retirement for the reasons i stated above? Of course not,that'd be a ludicrous self indictment of failure.
What he should do is go to the FO and either ask to be traded,or decide openly that its probably in the best interest of the team if he take a step back and take more of a backseat role to a team who'd be free to explore a different direction.

I hope that makes sense....i had 2 teeth pulled this afternoon and i'm currently feeling p-r-e-t-t-y l-o-o-p-y (in a good way if ya know what i mean)

Did you need to have them pulled or was it just an excuse to get loopy? Hope you get to stay loopy till the pain subsides.

Watching tonight's 76ers/Suns game wasn't a whole lot more fun than having teeth pulled. I wish I had thought to have them numb me up before the game started. Come to think of it, I'd imagine more than a few Suns fans will start self-medicating before this season is over.

Steve

 

[mojorizen7]

Was Channing Frye in the chair next to you, by any chance?

That bad huh?

Did you need to have them pulled or was it just an excuse to get loopy? Hope you get to stay loopy till the pain subsides.

Watching tonight's 76ers/Suns game wasn't a whole lot more fun than having teeth pulled. I wish I had thought to have them numb me up before the game started. Come to think of it, I'd imagine more than a few Suns fans will start self-medicating before this season is over.

Steve

I missed tonight game. I numbed up and watched Apocalypse Now on blue ray instead.
"Never get out of the boat."

 

[sunsfan88]

I doubt Sarver does any more trades.

He only did the Turkoglu trade so that we won't be in trouble financially because of the new CBA. Now we're all set financially and to him that means we're set as a team even if its a losing team.

 

[Chaplin]

I doubt Sarver does any more trades.

He only did the Turkoglu trade so that we won't be in trouble financially because of the new CBA. Now we're all set financially and to him that means we're set as a team even if its a losing team.

Pray tell, what in Sarver's checkered history with this team makes you think he is fine with a losing team? That's ridiculous. He's going to do something. It will probably be something nobody likes, but he's definitely not going to let this team flounder. Besides, if it gets worse, then people won't come to the games anymore and he'll lose a lot of money. And we all know he doesn't like that.

 

[sunsfan88]

Pray tell, what in Sarver's checkered history with this team makes you think he is fine with a losing team? That's ridiculous. He's going to do something. It will probably be something nobody likes, but he's definitely not going to let this team flounder. Besides, if it gets worse, then people won't come to the games anymore and he'll lose a lot of money. And we all know he doesn't like that.

Its different. Sure he might make some moves after this season, when the new CBA is announced but right now I doubt he does anything.

Maybe if some team was willing to give up A LOT for Nash or something then I can see a possible trade but other than that, I doubt it.

He wouldn't wanna risk being over the cap or losing $$$$ because of the new rules of the CBA.

 

[HooverDam]

With the new CBA coming up people are correct that the Suns should avoid taking on big/long contracts for guys who are current stars. This team isn't going anywhere as constructed and more or less every piece should be considered movable for the right deal. The guys I'd put towards the bottom of my list as far as moving them are:

Gortat- Athletic Center who might be a start and plays good defense, fairly young
Dragic- Having a down year, could still end up a starting caliber PG or solid backup
Pietrus- good defender, good outside shooter, reasonable contract
Dudley- Hustles, ok defender, good outside shooter, reasonable contract

Though Id happily move any of them in the right deal. No one on this team is untouchable or someone the Suns should be building a team around.

The first team I call up if Im the Suns is of course the Knicks. You know D'Antoni will bend over backwards to get Nash back. See if they'll do Nash, Hill & Childress for Curry (expiring), Gallinari and Ray Felton.

The Suns get back a young SF who may have Star potential (though I think he's more a 3rd or 4th guy on a good team) and a PG who's having a career year and is on a reasonable contract and won't hamstring the team. It also clears a ton of cap space and moves Childress' long deal.

Secondly the Suns should look and see what they could get for Carters semi expiring deal. They'll likely have to toss in $3M to move him and possibly even Orlando's pick that came with him.

Here are some perhaps potential deals that could be done with Carter:
~VC to Denver for K-Mart (expiring) & a distant future 1st. May help the Nuggets try to convince Carmelo that they're trying to win now for him. Suns may have to do something like just flip the Orlando pick for Denvers.

~VC to Utah for AK47 (expiring), I doubt Utah does this AK47 is actually playing pretty well for them this year. It would improve them offensively but downgrade them defensively, something likely unappealing to Sloan. But its worth a call, especially if you can get a pick back or flop picks.

~VC to Indiana for Jeff Foster (expiring), James Posey (next years the last on his deal), Lance Stephenson (Filler/cut him/push him down stairs) and a protected future 1st. Indiana is in the playoff hunt and making the playoffs would probably do a lot for their fan base. VC doesn't make them a contender but he does help insure them making the Final 8 in the East, gives the Pacers another scorer besides Granger & Dunleavy and they need help scoring.

~VC to Milwaukee for Redd+ filler. The Bucks are last in the league in scoring, Redd is done and he's expiring. VC could score for them and the Suns could get back maybe someone like Larry Sanders, CDR or Luc Mbah A Moute, or maybe a 1st.

~VC to Houston for Yao + filler. The Suns can hope they're miracle training staff can heal Yao and maybe sign him to a cheap deal next year, the Rockets don't really need help scoring and can probably get something better for Yaos expiring. Maybe the Suns could try to get Budinger (or less likely, Hill) back in the deal and Sarver can sell jerseys to UofA fans.

~VC to Portland for Oden+Pryzbilla (expiring). Odens done for the year, Pryzbilla is always getting hurt and who knows what his deal is. Portland is towards the bottom of the league in scoring as well and they've been rumored to be looking at a Pryzbilla for JJ Redick deal, so they're open to the idea of obtaining a 2 guard. VC would help make up for the scoring PDX is missing due to Roy no longer being himself. Though I think the Blazers can likely do better than this and VC really only keeps them afloat and Im not sure thats what they're looking for.

Anyway...Im all for blowing it up. Acquire as many picks, expiring deals, young players, and short/reasonable contracts as possible. Bring on the lottery, maybe one of these days the Suns will finally win it.

I'd be much more interested in watching a Lottery bound team with young guys who play hard than a mediocre to bad team of veterans with no future.

 

[sunsfan88]

With the new CBA coming up people are correct that the Suns should avoid taking on big/long contracts for guys who are current stars. This team isn't going anywhere as constructed and more or less every piece should be considered movable for the right deal. The guys I'd put towards the bottom of my list as far as moving them are:

Gortat- Athletic Center who might be a start and plays good defense, fairly young
Dragic- Having a down year, could still end up a starting caliber PG or solid backup
Pietrus- good defender, good outside shooter, reasonable contract
Dudley- Hustles, ok defender, good outside shooter, reasonable contract

Though Id happily move any of them in the right deal. No one on this team is untouchable or someone the Suns should be building a team around.

The first team I call up if Im the Suns is of course the Knicks. You know D'Antoni will bend over backwards to get Nash back. See if they'll do Nash, Hill & Childress for Curry (expiring), Gallinari and Ray Felton.

The Suns get back a young SF who may have Star potential (though I think he's more a 3rd or 4th guy on a good team) and a PG who's having a career year and is on a reasonable contract and won't hamstring the team. It also clears a ton of cap space and moves Childress' long deal.

Secondly the Suns should look and see what they could get for Carters semi expiring deal. They'll likely have to toss in $3M to move him and possibly even Orlando's pick that came with him.

Here are some perhaps potential deals that could be done with Carter:
~VC to Denver for K-Mart (expiring) & a distant future 1st. May help the Nuggets try to convince Carmelo that they're trying to win now for him. Suns may have to do something like just flip the Orlando pick for Denvers.

~VC to Utah for AK47 (expiring), I doubt Utah does this AK47 is actually playing pretty well for them this year. It would improve them offensively but downgrade them defensively, something likely unappealing to Sloan. But its worth a call, especially if you can get a pick back or flop picks.

~VC to Indiana for Jeff Foster (expiring), James Posey (next years the last on his deal), Lance Stephenson (Filler/cut him/push him down stairs) and a protected future 1st. Indiana is in the playoff hunt and making the playoffs would probably do a lot for their fan base. VC doesn't make them a contender but he does help insure them making the Final 8 in the East, gives the Pacers another scorer besides Granger & Dunleavy and they need help scoring.

~VC to Milwaukee for Redd+ filler. The Bucks are last in the league in scoring, Redd is done and he's expiring. VC could score for them and the Suns could get back maybe someone like Larry Sanders, CDR or Luc Mbah A Moute, or maybe a 1st.

~VC to Houston for Yao + filler. The Suns can hope they're miracle training staff can heal Yao and maybe sign him to a cheap deal next year, the Rockets don't really need help scoring and can probably get something better for Yaos expiring. Maybe the Suns could try to get Budinger (or less likely, Hill) back in the deal and Sarver can sell jerseys to UofA fans.

~VC to Portland for Oden+Pryzbilla (expiring). Odens done for the year, Pryzbilla is always getting hurt and who knows what his deal is. Portland is towards the bottom of the league in scoring as well and they've been rumored to be looking at a Pryzbilla for JJ Redick deal, so they're open to the idea of obtaining a 2 guard. VC would help make up for the scoring PDX is missing due to Roy no longer being himself. Though I think the Blazers can likely do better than this and VC really only keeps them afloat and Im not sure thats what they're looking for.

Anyway...Im all for blowing it up. Acquire as many picks, expiring deals, young players, and short/reasonable contracts as possible. Bring on the lottery, maybe one of these days the Suns will finally win it.

I'd be much more interested in watching a Lottery bound team with young guys who play hard than a mediocre to bad team of veterans with no future.

Good post.

If we are gonna blow it up, then I was thinking about something like this.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=26t7tsa

And then this,

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28yrnzw

We would likely to have lose our draft picks for the 2011 draft as well but considering how its gonna be a weak draft, it doesn't really matter.

So our lineup after this season would look something like this:

PG Collison, Teague
SG Pietrus, Childress
SF Dudley, Posey
PF Alridge, Frye
C Gortat, Oden (we could retain Oden for cheap $$ and see what our medical staff can do)

A pretty young lineup that's far from a contending team. But eventually they could get better and become an elite force in the NBA.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

That team would average 65 points per game. Hopefully that team would have good enough D to keep opponents from averaging 90, but that's not likely. And I LOVE Aldridge, but that overall lineup is a mess. We would really need an Odom/Mike Miller type at the 3 and Pietrus as a starting 2 would be bad news - particularly if Childress is the backup. We'd be lucky to get a combined 14ppg from those two.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but that 2/3 rotation is ugly. Sorry if this was too critical....

 

[Divide Et Impera]

I just reviewed the trades you posted and I can't see why IND would do that trade nor does POR's side of things make any sense whatsoever. I think ATL would jump all over that deal and PHX makes out very well too, but POR gets hosed....

 

[sunsfan88]

I just reviewed the trades you posted and I can't see why IND would do that trade nor does POR's side of things make any sense whatsoever. I think ATL would jump all over that deal and PHX makes out very well too, but POR gets hosed....

Not really. Josh Smith is a good player. For comparison, Smith's numbers are close to Alridge's this season.

Plus POR has been looking for a franchise center and now we give them one.

Lopez & Smith front-court>Cunningham & Alridge front-court

Yea the Pacers would have a hard time doing it but they'd probably do it if we were to throw draft picks in. Plus we take on Posey $7 mil contract. It could be worth it for us because Collison has the potential to be the next Westbrook or even better. (ironic both went to UCLA)

 

[sunsfan88]

That team would average 65 points per game. Hopefully that team would have good enough D to keep opponents from averaging 90, but that's not likely. And I LOVE Aldridge, but that overall lineup is a mess. We would really need an Odom/Mike Miller type at the 3 and Pietrus as a starting 2 would be bad news - particularly if Childress is the backup. We'd be lucky to get a combined 14ppg from those two.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but that 2/3 rotation is ugly. Sorry if this was too critical....

Nah not at all. Yea at some point we would also need a "superstar" type guy but this roster would appeal more to a "superstar" type guy than a roster filled with old, close to nothing players.

For example look at NJ and Denver. Anothny doesn't wanna sign with Denver cause they don't really have much other than Billups who is also aging. NJ however has young talents in Harris and Lopez along with some other guys.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

If your premise rests on Lopez being a "franchise center" then your conclusions will be unvariably false. Those trades are nonsense, but feel free to keep playing....

 

[sunsfan88]

If your premise rests on Lopez being a "franchise center" then your conclusions will be unvariably false. Those trades are nonsense, but feel free to keep playing....

Like I said before, your smoking some serious pot if you think Cunningham and Alridge duo is better than Smith-Lopez.

Lopez really hasn't played that bad and paired up with a guy like Josh Smith, it'd be a good front-court. RoLo plays well when there's a good PF along with him as we saw with Amare, and as we saw at Stanford with his brother.