Rebuttle: In Defense of Amare, Calling out Coach and GM!

[Black Jesus]

People were asking for my rebuttle, well here it is... Too long to just be a reply.

Amare can't possibly be blamed for this season so far. It is impossible for him to get into the groove of a game when teams offensively and defensively set their game plan around stopping Amare Stoudemire. Amare is an OUTSTANDING offensive player, and an average defender.

Teams with the slightest bit of a good post offensive player make it their game plan to attack Amare in the block. IMHO, I don't think that this is done because he is a bad defender, but rather teams do this to get him into foul trouble in the first 8 minutes of the first quarter, so he has to sit.

All it takes is a offensive charge, TEAMS CONSTANTLY FLOP against Amare, and one defensive foul in the first 8 minutes, and suddenly we dont see him again until the late second quarter. Any game that this happens, Amare is out of the groove because he needs to stay out of foul trouble, because he is needed most at crunch time along with Nash. Anyone who contests that point has not watched close, high intensity Suns games late in the 4th. He is one of the best finishers at the rim, and the best FT shooting big man in the league.

He should not be post defending teams for whole games at a time, he is an offensive machine, and we need to utilize his strength by getting a center... So what some slow center doesn't make it upcourt in time, we can have four runners and a slow man up court, it wont hurt the offense.

Everyone points to how he is different than other years, well guess what, other years we had Kurt Thomas, Steven Hunter, Jake V. (i know he sucked), McDyess, and Diaw to guard the post and getting regular playing time. Skinner is not getting enough minutes to relieve Amare of foul trouble, and DAntoni doesnt play Amare and Diaw or Amare and Skinner enough.

You want to know why the Lakers are better than us right now, at least head to head? Its because Bynum gets marked by Amare, Lamar gets marked by Marion, Ariza gets marked by Grant Hill, Kobe was guarded much of the game by Barbosa and Bell (who is a shell of his old self- cant hit threes and doesnt defend as well), and Nash guards Farmar and Vujajic. Ariza is too athletic for Grant Hill, Kobe is too good for Barbosa, Bynum got Amare in foul trouble, and Nash can't guard anyone. If we had a center, Amare could guard Odom, Marion could guard Ariza, and then Bell could guard Bryant. But we can't do that with our current lineup.

Amare is our most consistent offesnive gameplan in the final minutes of close games and in the playoffs... Both game situations where the RUN n GUN gets d'ed up and stopped. If you haven't noticed, Barbosa doesn't run free with 3 minutes left in a game, and Marion doesn't get a full court alley oop at teh end of a game. They get kickouts for three when Amare's pick and roll is d'ed up.

You interested in Amare's points per 48? yeah fifth in the league behind LeBron, Kobe, Carmelo, and Boozer.

You want to know his foul situation?

Yeah that doesn't add up to a team focused on winning does it?

Amare doesn't pad his rebound stat like Marion, who gets every uncontested rebound from missed ft and every desperate buzzer rebound. I want to see Marion get a big rebound at then end of a game, or get a big bucket... My memory fails me, but the only thing i remember recently was Marion missing a running matteen cleaves floater, and it was an airball.

If you are going to play the pick and roll in crunch time, which is Nash and Amare, then you have to build your team around it. And I hate to say it, but Marion doesn't fit, nor does Hill(not saying he hasn't been good, he just doesn't fit), nor does a Raja Bell that can't hit a kickout three.

We need a Mike Miller (3pt shooter), a Noah Lowry(stuck behind conley) or Damon Stoudamire(backup pointguard), a Jeff Foster (a center), and I agree with SULAX, a Demetris Nichols(voted best 3pt shooter in teh last draft).

and the way you get that done is trading Marion and Bell for a Mike Miller, a Noah Lowry, and a Hakim Warrick(who Iavaroni hates). Giving us a shooter, a pg, and a tall athlete.

Then trade Barbosa and SOMETHING for Jeff Foster and Danny Granger. Barbosa becomes the center of their offense with Jermaine.

And then get Demetris for a second rounder, who had he played in the NCAA tournament would of been a 1st rounder.

This gives us a lineup that looks like this....

Nash/Lowry
Mike Miller/DJ Strawberry (for defense)/Demetris Nichols
Grant Hill/Danny Granger(he is the same player as Grant)/Demetris Nichols
Amare Stoudemire/Boris Diaw
Jeff Foster/Brian Skinner

DAntoni needs to realize his two best players, Nash and Amare, and utilize them to the fullest. Aspects of the Run and Gun can continue, but this team needs to focus on what makes it win against quality teams, and that is because we have the modern day Stockton to Malone suiting up for us every night, and we are blowing it. A few peices in the shape of good shooters (id be estatic with some shooter as crappy as giricek or Jacobsen) and a center, and this team has a realistic chance to do something for teh next few years...

Sorry if this is jumbled at all, the points are all there organize them yourself.

 

[green machine]

Excellent post.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I can't blame the GM for not being able to land the two trades you mentioned. Marion's not going to agree to an extension in Memphis (not to mention it's Kyle Lowry not the SF Giants picther) which holds up that deal and Indy's not going to do Granger/Foster for Barbosa swap.

 

[Black Jesus]

my nad Mao, Kyle Lowry (too many similar names).... If Marion opts out, even better for Memphis. They have over 16 million to spend in a great free agency year to build around Rudy Gay, Paul Gasol, and Mike Conley. If Marion stays then they go...

Conley
Gay
Marion
Gasol
????

Thats a solid 4 to build around too

Barbosa is one of the most coveted players in the league with his ability and salary. I am sure we could get a deal done around Leadro for Foster...

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Black Jesus doesnt get enough nearly enough touches to offset his horrid defense, and I blame the coach.

I am not a fan of your trade proposals though.

 

[Proteus]

People were asking for my rebuttle, well here it is... Too long to just be a reply.

Amare can't possibly be blamed for this season so far. It is impossible for him to get into the groove of a game when teams offensively and defensively set their game plan around stopping Amare Stoudemire. Amare is an OUTSTANDING offensive player, and an average defender.

...

He should not be post defending teams for whole games at a time, he is an offensive machine, and we need to utilize his strength by getting a center... So what some slow center doesn't make it upcourt in time, we can have four runners and a slow man up court, it wont hurt the offense.

Everyone points to how he is different than other years, well guess what, other years we had Kurt Thomas, Steven Hunter, Jake V. (i know he sucked), McDyess, and Diaw to guard the post and getting regular playing time. Skinner is not getting enough minutes to relieve Amare of foul trouble, and DAntoni doesnt play Amare and Diaw or Amare and Skinner enough.

...

Amare doesn't pad his rebound stat like Marion, who gets every uncontested rebound from missed ft and every desperate buzzer rebound. I want to see Marion get a big rebound at then end of a game, or get a big bucket... My memory fails me, but the only thing i remember recently was Marion missing a running matteen cleaves floater, and it was an airball.

Amare seems to be mainly a jump shooter lately and not an outstanding one at that.

I don't see the Suns wanting to bring in a slow center since he would slow the team as that's part of why they got of Kurt Thomas. If I remember correctly, he also had problems defending athletic big men.

Marion had the offensive rebound that led to Tim Thomas' game tieing 3 pointer in game 6 of the 1st round against the Lakers in the 2005-2006 season. He also had the offensive rebound that led to Nash's game tieing 3 pointer in the 3rd game against Dallas last season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

here's a deal along the similar lines i would seriously think about doing, provided we could convince PJ Brown to come out of retirement.

Shawn Marion and the Hawks pick for Mike Miller and Damon Stoudamire.

I think DA is slowly realizing that he needs more size, more shooting and a backup for Nash. He also knows that Marion's game can be shut down in the playoffs and the way we're defending down low, we just can't run this system, especially without the shooters need to offset the horrific defense. So, what does this kind of move do for us? Here's the starting lineup.

Nash
Bell
Hill
Amare
Skinner

Bench
Stoudamire
Barbs
Mike Miller
Boris Diaw
PJ Brown

That team now has FIVE three point shooters, a bona fide backup PG with Damon, two guys who can absolutely light it up on offense with Miller and Barbs, and bonafide backups at both PF AND C.

What would that team REALLY lose with Marion gone? His run outs and fastbreak points? Well, considering he doesn't get those in the playoffs, that doesn't really matter. His inability to guard Tony Parker (who's he put on repeatedly to no fualt of his own)? Well, with two bona fide bigs in there at all times, the lane won't be wide open for him to cruise to anyway... and he couldn't be hidden on ANYONE on that team. And with PJ, we have a guy who gives both Duncan and Dirk fits.

As far as Miller and Damon, we're getting our first actual play makiing PG who can stroke the three and run and with Miller, you've got a money three poin shooter, who's averages 7 boards a game from the two-three spot who also has passing skills.

That deal above would be an absolute dream. Imagine 5 three point bombers, 4 guys who can create for themselves or others (Nash, Damon, Miller and Hill), two legit C and Amare and Boris. No one could stop that team.

The question really then is: Why in the world would Memphis do it? And to be honest, I don't know. Maybe both sides sweeten the pot and we make it Marion and Barbs for Miller, Damon and Darko (which we'd probably have to do because PJ ain't coming out of retirement). I'd probably do that too.

That deal would basically make Amare, Miller and the Hawks pick as the building blocks for the future, which I actually like more than Barbs and Amare simply because Barbs is a man without a position as the ultimate tweener and it gives us the versatility, size, shooting and depth this team is aching for right now

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Low value for Marion at this point imo. Damon is also a big fat question mark if you factor in Dantoni.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Low value for Marion at this point imo. Damon is also a big fat question mark if you factor in Dantoni.

with Marion having the the threat of leaving, combined with his increasing age (and we all know the second his athleticism shrinks the tiniest bit, he's going to be 6'7 version of Ben Wallace), and the seeming deconstruction of any kind of shooting ability from more than three feet in, I don't think Marion's value is all that great right now.

And I actually think DA would love Damon as a 15 minute a night guy who can still get up and down pretty quick for short bursts, who can actually run an offense when not asked to do too much, while being able to hit the three at a nice clip... and his name isn't Marcus Banks.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Amare can't possibly be blamed for this season so far. It is impossible for him to get into the groove of a game when teams offensively and defensively set their game plan around stopping Amare Stoudemire. Amare is an OUTSTANDING offensive player, and an average defender.

Amare is an outstanding offensive player when he puts his mind to it, is a poor rebounder for somebody with his height and athleticism, and is an atrocious defensive player. And nobody is simply focusing on Amare Stoudemire; they're trying to stop Steve Nash. If anything, the Spurs showed that the way to beat the Suns is to simply let Amare have his way.

Teams with the slightest bit of a good post offensive player make it their game plan to attack Amare in the block. IMHO, I don't think that this is done because he is a bad defender, but rather teams do this to get him into foul trouble in the first 8 minutes of the first quarter, so he has to sit.

Teams attack Amare in the post because he's a bad defender. Being foul prone is a sign of poor defense, especially when alot of Amare's fouls don't even come from guarding the post; he picks up alot of fouls on reach-ins at guards in pick and roll situations. Amare has been taken to school by most opposing centers throughout this season.

All it takes is a offensive charge, TEAMS CONSTANTLY FLOP against Amare, and one defensive foul in the first 8 minutes, and suddenly we dont see him again until the late second quarter. Any game that this happens, Amare is out of the groove because he needs to stay out of foul trouble, because he is needed most at crunch time along with Nash. Anyone who contests that point has not watched close, high intensity Suns games late in the 4th. He is one of the best finishers at the rim, and the best FT shooting big man in the league.

It's a reality for all big, power oriented centers in the league. What doesn't help is that Amare doesn't have a back to the basket game, so most of his shots are him driving face up. It's much easier to draw a charge when a guy is barreling towards you, as opposed to something like a hook-shot, or even backing down a player. Amare is a phenomenal finisher though, but I'm taking Yao Ming 100% of the time to shoot free throws.

He should not be post defending teams for whole games at a time, he is an offensive machine, and we need to utilize his strength by getting a center... So what some slow center doesn't make it upcourt in time, we can have four runners and a slow man up court, it wont hurt the offense.

I agree that we desperately need a center, but that's because Amare is incapable of guarding other big men. He isn't too small (Brian Skinner is an inch shorter and only five pounds heavier). It's the center's responsibility to guard the other team's biggest guy on the court. We need to take the Steve Nash approach with Amare, find a place to hide his crappy defense so that he can help us on offense.

Everyone points to how he is different than other years, well guess what, other years we had Kurt Thomas, Steven Hunter, Jake V. (i know he sucked), McDyess, and Diaw to guard the post and getting regular playing time. Skinner is not getting enough minutes to relieve Amare of foul trouble, and DAntoni doesnt play Amare and Diaw or Amare and Skinner enough.

It's Amare's own fault he's in foul trouble. While D'Antoni should definitely play Skinner more minutes, it doesn't admonish Stoudemire from the fact that the reason we need Skinner in their is that he sucks at defense.

You want to know why the Lakers are better than us right now, at least head to head? Its because Bynum gets marked by Amare, Lamar gets marked by Marion, Ariza gets marked by Grant Hill, Kobe was guarded much of the game by Barbosa and Bell (who is a shell of his old self- cant hit threes and doesnt defend as well), and Nash guards Farmar and Vujajic. Ariza is too athletic for Grant Hill, Kobe is too good for Barbosa, Bynum got Amare in foul trouble, and Nash can't guard anyone. If we had a center, Amare could guard Odom, Marion could guard Ariza, and then Bell could guard Bryant. But we can't do that with our current lineup.

Totally agree with this. Although, there's too much Raja Bell bashing. He'll get his shooting touch back, he still plays good defense, and he brings toughness and veteran leadership to a team that is sorely lacking in that department.

Amare is our most consistent offesnive gameplan in the final minutes of close games and in the playoffs... Both game situations where the RUN n GUN gets d'ed up and stopped. If you haven't noticed, Barbosa doesn't run free with 3 minutes left in a game, and Marion doesn't get a full court alley oop at teh end of a game. They get kickouts for three when Amare's pick and roll is d'ed up.

Steve Nash is our offensive game plan for the end of games. Amare is a great finisher and that increases his value tremendously at the end, but it's because Nash he's finishing those kind of shots. We simply need somebody who can create offense at the end and in half court sets. Steve Nash gives that to you.

You interested in Amare's points per 48? yeah fifth in the league behind LeBron, Kobe, Carmelo, and Boozer.

Per48 stats are weak. They measure hypotheticals. I'd much rather concentrate on what's happening on the court.

You want to know his foul situation?

It's Amare's own fault he's in foul trouble.

Yeah that doesn't add up to a team focused on winning does it?

It doesn't add up to a player focused on defense.

Amare doesn't pad his rebound stat like Marion, who gets every uncontested rebound from missed ft and every desperate buzzer rebound. I want to see Marion get a big rebound at then end of a game, or get a big bucket... My memory fails me, but the only thing i remember recently was Marion missing a running matteen cleaves floater, and it was an airball.

The facts are pretty consistent. It's not just a couple uncontested rebounds that give Shawn such a tremendous edge on the board. Watch the games and he's busting his hump every night for those boards. You don't get that kind of sustained production from getting meaningless rebounds.

I want to see Marion get a big rebound at then end of a game

Ask and you shall receive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oacavO8e9q4

If you are going to play the pick and roll in crunch time, which is Nash and Amare, then you have to build your team around it. And I hate to say it, but Marion doesn't fit, nor does Hill(not saying he hasn't been good, he just doesn't fit), nor does a Raja Bell that can't hit a kickout three.

Marion fits perfectly. He doesn't need the ball to score (which would further isolate Amare from the offense), he gets rebounds and he plays defense (which very few players do). Hill is a good veteran leader who knows how to execute in the half-court. And Raja is shooting almost 40% from downtown this season, and it's only going to be better as he recovers from the back spasm and gets his shot back. Not to mention his defense and toughness. All play key roles for this team.

We need a Mike Miller (3pt shooter), a Noah Lowry(stuck behind conley) or Damon Stoudamire(backup pointguard), a Jeff Foster (a center), and I agree with SULAX, a Demetris Nichols(voted best 3pt shooter in teh last draft).

Miller is nice, but we really don't need more three point shooting. Another guy might be nice, but we're not in a position to sacrifice defense for offense.

and the way you get that done is trading Marion and Bell for a Mike Miller, a Noah Lowry, and a Hakim Warrick(who Iavaroni hates). Giving us a shooter, a pg, and a tall athlete.

Hakim Warrick is a toothpick who doesn't have a real spot on this team. As I said Miller and Lowry are good players who I like, but giving up Marion and Bell for them could quite possibly make us even worse defensively (like that's even possible). You think Amare gets in foul trouble now, see what happens when you get rid of our two best defensive players and Parker and Ginobli are getting into the paint without contention.

Then trade Barbosa and SOMETHING for Jeff Foster and Danny Granger. Barbosa becomes the center of their offense with Jermaine.

There's no way Indy is giving up that much for Barbosa. Granger has been phenomenal for them, and it's going to take alot to move him out of there, much less with Jeff Foster.

 

[dodie53]

just give Skinner extended minutes with Amare.

and play Marks sometimes.

stop playing small ball.

 

[Joe Mama]

OldMan just nailed it on virtually every point. people lose me as soon as they claim that Amare Stoudemire is in the average defender. He's average when he's giving his 110% effort. I might even move him to adequate at that point, but it's so infrequent to see that from him that it's really hard to tell.

But my biggest problem with Amare Stoudemire is his rebounding or lack thereof. The next decent team we play just please watch as he is beaten time after time on the defensive glass. He never puts the body on anyone or he's just completely out of position.

I would love to see a traditional line up for 5-10 more minutes each game. More importantly let like to see Mike D'Antoni learned from the past and to expand his bench. He's playing Grant Hill too much, and I'm afraid it's going to cost us when it counts at the end of the year.

That proposed Memphis grizzlies trade would make the Phoenix Suns much worse than they are now. Shawn Marion is playing some fantastic defense this year. This might be the worst defensive team in history with a trade like that.

Joe Mama

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

with Marion having the the threat of leaving, combined with his increasing age (and we all know the second his athleticism shrinks the tiniest bit, he's going to be 6'7 version of Ben Wallace), and the seeming deconstruction of any kind of shooting ability from more than three feet in, I don't think Marion's value is all that great right now.

And I actually think DA would love Damon as a 15 minute a night guy who can still get up and down pretty quick for short bursts, who can actually run an offense when not asked to do too much, while being able to hit the three at a nice clip... and his name isn't Marcus Banks.

Marion is playing marvelously, your spin wouldnt be enough to convince any GM of lowering his current value, including $arver.

I like the idea of your trade, but I just think we could get more or dish off one of our undersirable contracts at least.

 

[Proteus]

and play Marks sometimes.

Marks is pretty much a complete disaster on defense.

I don't think he brings nearly enough on offense to compensate for that.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

No one ever wants to trade anybody at their peak around here.

Marion has a few bad games...Fing trade him!!!!

Marion has a few good games...You can't trade him!!!!

Same with Amare, Raja, Barbosa.

It's maddness.

 

[Bufalay]

How about this trade:

Marion and the Atl pick to Charlotte for a trade exception and a second round pick.

I think Sarver would do that

 

[arwillan]

Great Deal!

 

[okhoops]

It's amazing how little respect Marion gets. He is a rare combination at any level: a guy who consistently guards the other teams best player whether he is undersized (Bosh/Nowinski) or out-quicked (Parker/Kobe) and doesn't demand shots at the other end. It's rare to find a teammate at any level who will bust his rear end at one end and then be content to watch those that float at the defensive end get the first looks at the other end. Guys like this fit any team. He fits D'Antoni's style particularly well. Despite the off-season turmoil, he's done nothing other than play at the same level he always does. The only reason to trade him is the inability to give him the type of money he will demand. Take him (or a player like him) out of the line-up and watch Nash and Amare struggle to guard the guys their supposed to match-up with. Mike Miller? Take Marion's defensive abilities out and add another average (?) defender. This team doesn't need a major overhaul. It needs an additional piece or two for the playoff run. Peaking for the playoffs (ala the Spurs) is the plan not dominating the regular season (ala the Mavs). Kerr will make a few moves heading into the deadline. Patience folks. It's a marathon not a sprint.

 

[arwillan]

It's amazing how little respect Marion gets. He is a rare combination at any level: a guy who consistently guards the other teams best player whether he is undersized (Bosh/Nowinski) or out-quicked (Parker/Kobe) and doesn't demand shots at the other end. It's rare to find a teammate at any level who will bust his rear end at one end and then be content to watch those that float at the defensive end get the first looks at the other end. Guys like this fit any team. He fits D'Antoni's style particularly well. Despite the off-season turmoil, he's done nothing other than play at the same level he always does. The only reason to trade him is the inability to give him the type of money he will demand. Take him (or a player like him) out of the line-up and watch Nash and Amare struggle to guard the guys *they're* supposed to match-up with. Mike Miller? Take Marion's defensive abilities out and add another average (?) defender. This team doesn't need a major overhaul. It needs an additional piece or two for the playoff run. Peaking for the playoffs (ala the Spurs) is the plan not dominating the regular season (ala the Mavs). Kerr will make a few moves heading into the deadline. Patience folks. It's a marathon not a sprint.

Marion really isn't "undersized" when guarding Dirk Nowitzki (not nowinski) because dirk has no post game and is a perimeter player. marion's length and athleticism allow him to be able to cover dirk just fine reguardless of size. Putting him on parker was probably more of a coaching error than anything else. Of course he will be out-quicked by one of (if not the) fastest guard in the league. Banks should have gotten some time to try and cover him, otherwise you'd have to try speed on speed with nash or stick marion there (either way we lose that matchup). Kobe is not any quicker than marion, there's no way that should be his problem when guarding him. And by the way, Bell guards Kobe not Marion. Marion guards Odom. it is a marathon, you're correct with that. But in a marathon, if you fall behind at the start you cannot hope to be around at the end. Championship teams don't have the sort of problems we do. Last year were the spurs concerned with their terrible defense and rebounding as well as effort from their star players? Never in a million years. Right now we need to do a little sprinting to catch up to the pack in front of the marathon, too bad out starters are too tired to run.

 

[S_Nash]

Marion really isn't "undersized" when guarding Dirk Nowitzki (not nowinski)

ZOOOOOOOOOMMM!!!!

 

[Maligzar]

Teams with the slightest bit of a good post offensive player make it their game plan to attack Amare in the block. IMHO, I don't think that this is done because he is a bad defender, but rather teams do this to get him into foul trouble in the first 8 minutes of the first quarter, so he has to sit.

Uhh dude, if he was a good defender the the game plan to attack Amare would fail. The reason why he gets into foul trouble is because he's a bad defender.

All it takes is a offensive charge, TEAMS CONSTANTLY FLOP against Amare, and one defensive foul in the first 8 minutes, and suddenly we dont see him again until the late second quarter.

Amare is a big flopper as well.

 

[Black Jesus]

here's a deal along the similar lines i would seriously think about doing, provided we could convince PJ Brown to come out of retirement.

Shawn Marion and the Hawks pick for Mike Miller and Damon Stoudamire.

Even though I go to U of A and am a huge fan of the Stoudamires, I don't think they fit for our system. I think our PG needs to be pass first, and our 3pt shooters need to be SG and SF who hang out in the corners for kickouts...ALA Joe Johnson, QRich, James Jones, Jim Jackson. Lowry makes more sense to me because he is an actual PG that could spell Nash.

Whoever said PJ Brown, I am realizing that he would be PERFECT.

 

[Black Jesus]

Old Dirt McGirt,

I think you are forgetting that Steve Nash as an individual is not a superstar. He is a good player at best. His talent is bring the best out of other athletic and scoring freaks. In order for him to thrive he needs an athletic big and good shooters that keep defenses honest when he is driving, and when someone does come to help or double him, he exploits their double by finding the open man better than anyone in the league. The pick and roll we run with Nash would not be effective without Amare, who is a top 5 scorer in the NBA, he just isn't getting enough touches on this team.

Leandro Barbosa-14 FGA per game
Amare Stoudemire- 13.6 FGA/g
Shawn Marion- 13 FGA/g
Grant Hill- 12.2 FGA/g
Steve Nash- 12 FGA/g

You all saw that Amare is a top 5 scorer in both efficiency and per 48 in league, so why is he only getting 13.6 FGA per game? Other guys that were close to him in scoring efficiency stats are getting...
Carmelo-20.6 FGA/g
LeBron- 21.6 FGA/g
Kobe- 20.5 FGA/g
Boozer- 18.5 FGA/g

Those were the other players that were as effecient as Amare, and tehy are getting 5-7 more looks a game??? Why are we exploiting our own players? Why not reap the benefits of their abilities, and the best offensive abilities on the team are Nash's passing, Amare's finishing, and Grant's driving. We need to build a team around these abilities instead of around Marion's abysmal shooting in general, and Bell, who has proven that he is not the same player since tearing his achilles.

A main reason Amare looks like he is not trying at times on defense is because he isnt trying.... If he plays aggressive on both ends of teh floor, especially guarding a post up player(a center), he will find himself back on the bench, where he cant be efficient. Once he picks up his second or third foul early, and then is put back in the game while in foul trouble, he is EXTREMELY passive. Simply having a center on the floor will alleviate Amare of these complications, allowing him to be the threat he should be.

PJ Brown, Samuel Dalembert, Jermaine O'Neal, Jeff Foster, or any other post defender would be great. We are going to see Skinner get anialated tonight in the post, it is going to help Amare stay on the court, but his defense is no better. The only reason he can play as aggressively as as he does on defense, is because he(skinner) doesnt get the minutes to find himself in foul trouble, and if he is in foul trouble.

The Suns gave Amare a bad rep as a personal foul machine, and now officials are tending to blow the whistle on him that much more, hopefully we can counteract this trend by putting Amare in a position to succeed, rather than setting him up to fail.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I do agree with alot of the points you're making. Amare is a great offensive player, and the way that we should use him is to move him to power forward, and to get a garbage man type center who's going to do all of the dirty work.

 

[Covert Rain]

Amare is an outstanding offensive player when he puts his mind to it, is a poor rebounder for somebody with his height and athleticism, and is an atrocious defensive player. And nobody is simply focusing on Amare Stoudemire; they're trying to stop Steve Nash. If anything, the Spurs showed that the way to beat the Suns is to simply let Amare have his way.

What do you mean when he puts his mind to it? He is up towards the top of the league right now.

You won't get any argument from me there. Amare should be a better rebounder for his size. Also, when Amare and Skinner are in there and Amare is matched up against a PF, I see his defense is much better. It's a product of him playing out of position and being an average defender trying to guard guys better suited at the center position.

Teams attack Amare in the post because he's a bad defender. Being foul prone is a sign of poor defense, especially when alot of Amare's fouls don't even come from guarding the post; he picks up alot of fouls on reach-ins at guards in pick and roll situations. Amare has been taken to school by most opposing centers throughout this season.

Amare gets attacked because he often is the only big man out there. You foul Amare out and the Suns get into even more trouble in the middle. Even if Amare was a great defender, that strategy would still be the same if Amare was considered good or not.

It just gets a little easier when you have a PF playing out of position. D'Antoni has seen to that.

I agree that we desperately need a center, but that's because Amare is incapable of guarding other big men. He isn't too small (Brian Skinner is an inch shorter and only five pounds heavier). It's the center's responsibility to guard the other team's biggest guy on the court. We need to take the Steve Nash approach with Amare, find a place to hide his crappy defense so that he can help us on offense.

Playing center is more then just size. It also about natural position. How many times have we seen in the NBA guys that fit the size of a given position but don't flourish until they do something else? You can't just look at how big, short, heavy etc.. a guy looks and say well he should play position X. If that was the case then Charles Barkley never would have played Power Forward in this league (before he got heavy ).

It's Amare's own fault he's in foul trouble. While D'Antoni should definitely play Skinner more minutes, it doesn't admonish Stoudemire from the fact that the reason we need Skinner in their is that he sucks at defense.

No actually it's D'Antoni's fault. Now he is starting to realize it with the announced line-up change. A Coaches job is to put his player in the best situation to succeed. Since small ball has never been successful in this league...I would say that rests squarely on the shoulder of D'Antoni.

Now if Amare plays the rest of this season at PF and gets worked by every power forward in the league then you have a point. Until then, you can't even judge Amare from that stand point.

Totally agree with this. Although, there's too much Raja Bell bashing. He'll get his shooting touch back, he still plays good defense, and he brings toughness and veteran leadership to a team that is sorely lacking in that department.

Too much Raja Bashing but not too much Amare bashing?????

I don't think he is playing good defense nor has he this season yet. I would be fine with Raja not hitting his 3's if he wasn't getting worked on "D" so much this season.

It's Amare's own fault he's in foul trouble.

It doesn't add up to a player focused on defense.

Pure crap it's just Amare. D'Antoni shouldn't get a pass here.

Marion fits perfectly. He doesn't need the ball to score (which would further isolate Amare from the offense), he gets rebounds and he plays defense (which very few players do). Hill is a good veteran leader who knows how to execute in the half-court. And Raja is shooting almost 40% from downtown this season, and it's only going to be better as he recovers from the back spasm and gets his shot back. Not to mention his defense and toughness. All play key roles for this team.

You won't get any arguments from me about Marion. He to me is much more the reason we have survived many of these games with his rebounding and defense. He to me is much more valuable then Raja Bell. We can find another Raja but I don't think we will find another Marion.

So if we do trade him, it has to be for more then just one player. Your going to need a combo of guys to do what he does for us on any given night.

The suns are in a tough spot. We can't afford to trade rebounding and defense for a shooter. However, unless Raja and Barbosa get more consistent we need another shooter.