ReHashed Trade Rumors

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

That's absolutely not true. Boris is a big who isn't injury-prone. When Boris is properly motivated, he is one of the best big men off the bench in the league and he does have a terrific court vision.

The only question with him is about motivation. A fully-motivated Boris Diaw is 10 times the player TJ Ford is. The question is if he'll get motivated, and without seeing how Porter's presence will affect him, I think we can afford to wait because the reward is so high.

Aside for the extreme hyperbole, why cant the same qualifier be made of Ford?

He is a speedy demon, who can score in bunches, get to the foul line, and rack up the assists like only a few PGs in the game can. The question is if he stays healthy, and it's not like he has health issues, he has one issue that would only be triggered if he gets CLOSELINED

and without seeing Porter's playbook and how it will affect Ford, I think we can afford to move the most passive big man in the league for a proven PG that flourished under Porter in the past.


See how cyclical the hyperbole is?

 

[Irish]

Has Ford learned to shoot from the outside or play defense?

 

[Chaplin]

Has Ford learned to shoot from the outside or play defense?

Nope.

Which makes him the best option for backup PG, apparently.

 

[tobiazz]

The question is if he stays healthy, and it's not like he has health issues, he has one issue that would only be triggered if he gets CLOSELINED.

Interesting point. I don't think I want a player we'd have to sit against the Spurs.

 

[overseascardfan]

For the record I suggested the Barbosa/Maggette & #7 and some people, won't mention names, thought it was ridiculous, doesn't look so ridiculous as it is a legit rumor the Clips are considering. Burn!

 

[joshstmarie]

If competing for a championship isn't enough motivation for Boris then I don't know what is. Girls, croissants and playing for a new contract seem to be the only things that get his full effort.

I love how players arent allowed to have a life outside of basketball, its not like the guy is going out and raping girls, hes 26 and single with a crap load of money... whats the problem here?

i have a reaaaally hard time believe most of you wouldnt be doing the same thing, i know id be banging every chick that looked twice at me.

also i dont believe its a motivation factor, didnt seem like one to me when he was getting more touches when he exploited that matchup on finley...

he needs touches to be effective. and when amares 2nd micro surgery comes around again youll all certainly be back on the 3D bandwagon.

 

[tobiazz]

To give you an idea of how TOR regards Ford, they are now talking about trading him plus the #17 and another player or two (for salary) to IND for Jermaine "No knee" O'Neal. I know Diaw is Diaw, but O'Neal is done and 29 years old.

If the Pacers make this move, they might not take DJ Augustin, but POR probably would.

 

[tobiazz]

i have a reaaaally hard time believe most of you wouldnt be doing the same thing, i know id be banging every chick that looked twice at me.

also i dont believe its a motivation factor, didnt seem like one to me when he was getting more touches when he exploited that matchup on finley...

I don't mind Boris getting laid, but the pics show off his unimpressive physique. He is clearly not that motivated or he would be in prime shape.

 

[mojorizen7]

I'm a little surprised at how little movement there's been really in relation to small trades involving draft picks and salary dump. Still....it's only mid-June.

 

[jlove]

I'm a little surprised at how little movement there's been really in relation to small trades involving draft picks and salary dump. Still....it's only mid-June.

Just wait till Thursday for the plethora of trades and draft pick movement. With Miami, Seattle, Minny, Clips, Portland, Indy, Memphis, Milwaukee, Toronto, Phoenix, New Jersey all talking trade of some sort.

 

[Bigdez22]

You want to see if Porter can motivate Doris?

I guess playing on a top 5 team year in year out is not enough.
I guess playing for a title is not enough
I guess playing with one of the best PG in the history of the NBA is not enough.
I guess playing for a coach that coaches to your ability is not enough

We have seen over 200 games the last 2 years, and you have not seen enough?

Is this the NBA or preschool? Do we need to hold his hand and give him a pat on the butt and a good job when he sucks? come on!!!!!!

I dont think Ford for Boris is fair value talent wise, but i live in the real world where talent and effort are 2 different things.

We all know Doris should be Boris and he should avg 15/8/6 a game.....We all know he has this kind of talent.....but he does not have the effort.

My thinking is....If we can get rid of Doris for a back up PG( a good one at that, and if Nash does not come back the year after next, we have a better then most option), and a first round pick.....I will buy Doris a one way ticket to Toronto.....I would trade Doris for some basketballs and a tube of Bengay......atleast I will get what I pay for

 

[CaptainInsano]

Porter won't have any patience for doris and his passive BS, it would be a VERY good idea to ship him out now for whatever scraps we get. I don't want another 9 million version of marcus banks.

D'antoni loved boris because you could just throw him out there and he would passively do what he would do, he didn't need to be ordered to do this or that or basically coached intensively to do anything, and didn't complain about it like most players would since they would expect some direction from their coaches. This was Mike considering him as "smart". Smart my ass, goodbye D'antoni!

Mark my words, under Porter boris will end up as an 8th man or worse, where he belongs.

 

[Chaplin]

You are honestly comparing Boris Diaw with Marcus Banks? Seriously? That is unbelievable.

 

[Irish]

You are honestly comparing Boris Diaw with Marcus Banks? Seriously? That is unbelievable.

We go through this everytime there is a trade rumor. We get hugely exaggerated value of the other player and a campaign to trash the Suns player along with abuse for disapproving of the trade.

I have never seen a reasonable deal made more reasonable by trashing your own guy. Real deals come from both sides feel they are getting something worth having and if your guy is crap, then why would the other team want him? And if the other guy is so great, then why does the other team want to give him up? Generally the guys fit different needs or there are financial implications.

BTW, if the deal was for Calderon, I'd at least think about it. He can shoot and play defense in additon to running the offense. That's why the Raptors want to hang onto him. But they find Ford expendible because he's overpaid and has huge holes in his game.

 

[HooverDam]

BTW, if the deal was for Calderon, I'd at least think about it. He can shoot and play defense in additon to running the offense. That's why the Raptors want to hang onto him. But they find Ford expendible because he's overpaid and has huge holes in his game.

Im sorry, this is ridiculous. You would 'think' about it if it were for Calderon? He's a terrific young player. You and Chap are vastly over valuing Boris Diaw. I think you're both falling into the typical bigger is better trap. Its that sort thinking that gets the Jake Tsakilidis' of the world drafted ahead of the Michael Redds of the world. Everyone is so hung up on his outside shooting, but he's a goof FT shooter and has missed a lot of time (thus, chances to develop his game). Dan Majerle and a zillion other guys didn't come into the league as 3 point specialist, if you have a decent shot, that can be learned.

I do like a lot of things about Boris' game, but with the alleged deals the Suns can make this off season, he's extremely extendible.

I think both the Toronto and LAC trades are extremely lopsided in the Suns favor, I'd do both (which would be tough for me, I love LB). However, can you honestly say this roster wouldn't have you excited for next year: ?

1. Steve Nash
2. Raja Bell
3. Corey Maggette
4. Amare Stoudemire
5. Shaq O'Neal

Bench:
PG TJ Ford
SG Gordan Giricek, Eric Gordon (pick #7), DJ Strawberry
SF Grant Hill, Alando Tucker
PF Brian Skinner
C DeAndre Jordan (pick #17)

Now, thats 13 players and maybe the Suns wouldn't want to carry more than the minimum, but to avoid be too thin at any position, this is probably the roster they'd have. They'd have DJ as the 3rd PG for when Ford goes down (because getting closelined is the type of non freak injury that reoccurs a lot. Its like KJs hammys). Giricek could play at the 3 some if Alando still isn't ready. Skinner could obviously play the 4 or 5 if Jordan turns out to be a huge project. Perhaps they'd bring back Marks or hopefully find a better veteran 5 somewhere.

EDIT: Theres an off chance Joey Dorsey would be on the board when the Suns picked in the 2nd round, he'd be a great pick. They have enough scoring, he could be a Skinner type banger off the bench. DeVon Hardin could be available in that range as well, he's raw, but could be a great 2nd round steal. All the 2nd round big men (heck, all the mid first round bigs) are obviously going to have some holes, but there could be a usable player in there.

 

[cly2tw]

LB for Webster, Jack, #13. Diaw for Lee, Rose. Draft Rush #13, Jordan or Thompson #15. Sign back Giricek and Marks. We win with the extremely deep (14 deep) roster

Shaq/Amare/Lee/Marks/Jordan/Hill/Webster/Giri/Rush/Bell/Nash/Jack/DJ/Tucker

 

[dodie53]

marks?
what about skinner?

 

[cly2tw]

marks?
what about skinner?

With Lee on board, you don't need a lesser version in Skinner.

 

[Joe Mama]

I don't think reporters going to allow Steve Nash to triple the ball around in circles or 20 seconds each possession anymore. This is a good thing. This did not work against the good teams anymore, and more importantly it just wears out Steve Nash. If he's still on the roster and Porter has a brain he will put the ball in the post with Shaquille O'Neal, Amare Stoudemire, AND Boris Diaw far more than Mike D'Antoni did. On any given night you are going to have a real mismatch with at least two and a lot of times all three of those guys.

I'll tell you the problem with TJ Ford when it comes to injuries. He likes to go inside, and he probably doesn't weigh more than 160 pounds soaking wet. On top of that he is no AI. on top of that, he's tiny, and any decent point guard takes him to the post and abuses him repeatedly. Lastly, you can't shoot outside of 15-16 feet. This team desperately needs to spread the offense. They don't need more perimeter players who allow the defense to collapse.

Btw, unless this team sheds some serious payroll in the next couple weeks they are not going to spend the mid-level exception. So to say you are going to deal away one of you only big men and replace him with the mid-level exception is at this point unrealistic.

Joe Mama

 

[JCSunsfan]

We go through this everytime there is a trade rumor. We get hugely exaggerated value of the other player and a campaign to trash the Suns player along with abuse for disapproving of the trade.

I have never seen a reasonable deal made more reasonable by trashing your own guy. Real deals come from both sides feel they are getting something worth having and if your guy is crap, then why would the other team want him? And if the other guy is so great, then why does the other team want to give him up? Generally the guys fit different needs or there are financial implications.

BTW, if the deal was for Calderon, I'd at least think about it. He can shoot and play defense in additon to running the offense. That's why the Raptors want to hang onto him. But they find Ford expendible because he's overpaid and has huge holes in his game.

I agree with this post. LB can play D if he is coached to do it. He has tremendous speed, an ability to get to the rim, AND he can shoot. Plus, he is healthy.

I am not against trading him if we get value, but we must get value.

 

[Irish]

Pacers Concerned About Ford's Health

The Pacers are discussing a trade of J O'Neal for TJ Ford of the Raptors.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080624/SPORTS04/806240350/1088/SPORTS04

The Pacers have concerns about Ford's durability.
The Raptors' point guard missed time last season after he struck his head on the floor following a foul by Atlanta's Al Horford. Ford missed the 2004-05 season after suffering a bruised spinal cord during the 2003-04 season.
Bird, in his first offseason with sole control over basketball decisions, said recently he wanted to upgrade the roster through trades, the draft and free agency.

Pacers priorities are point guard and post players.

Acquiring the 6-0, 165-pound Ford would upgrade the Pacers' murky point guard situation. Ford averaged 12.1 points and shot 29 percent on 3-pointers last season, but he's quick, attacks the basket and creates scoring opportunities for teammates. His assist to turnover ratio was 6.1-to-2.0.

Late last season, the Pacers used Travis Diener and Flip Murray after starter Jamaal Tinsley was injured.

Tinsley's future is unclear, particularly after coach Jim O'Brien said he no longer can rely on the injury-plagued guard to direct the team.
The Pacers could address their point guard issues further if they select Texas' D.J. Augustin with the No. 11 pick Thursday.

The Toronto Star reported at least four teams, including Phoenix, are interested in Ford.

This deal appears to be contingent on the health of both key guys.

 

[Chaplin]

Im sorry, this is ridiculous. You would 'think' about it if it were for Calderon? He's a terrific young player. You and Chap are vastly over valuing Boris Diaw. I think you're both falling into the typical bigger is better trap. Its that sort thinking that gets the Jake Tsakilidis' of the world drafted ahead of the Michael Redds of the world. Everyone is so hung up on his outside shooting, but he's a goof FT shooter and has missed a lot of time (thus, chances to develop his game). Dan Majerle and a zillion other guys didn't come into the league as 3 point specialist, if you have a decent shot, that can be learned.

I do like a lot of things about Boris' game, but with the alleged deals the Suns can make this off season, he's extremely extendible.

I think both the Toronto and LAC trades are extremely lopsided in the Suns favor, I'd do both (which would be tough for me, I love LB). However, can you honestly say this roster wouldn't have you excited for next year: ?

1. Steve Nash
2. Raja Bell
3. Corey Maggette
4. Amare Stoudemire
5. Shaq O'Neal

Bench:
PG TJ Ford
SG Gordan Giricek, Eric Gordon (pick #7), DJ Strawberry
SF Grant Hill, Alando Tucker
PF Brian Skinner
C DeAndre Jordan (pick #17)

Now, thats 13 players and maybe the Suns wouldn't want to carry more than the minimum, but to avoid be too thin at any position, this is probably the roster they'd have. They'd have DJ as the 3rd PG for when Ford goes down (because getting closelined is the type of non freak injury that reoccurs a lot. Its like KJs hammys). Giricek could play at the 3 some if Alando still isn't ready. Skinner could obviously play the 4 or 5 if Jordan turns out to be a huge project. Perhaps they'd bring back Marks or hopefully find a better veteran 5 somewhere.

EDIT: Theres an off chance Joey Dorsey would be on the board when the Suns picked in the 2nd round, he'd be a great pick. They have enough scoring, he could be a Skinner type banger off the bench. DeVon Hardin could be available in that range as well, he's raw, but could be a great 2nd round steal. All the 2nd round big men (heck, all the mid first round bigs) are obviously going to have some holes, but there could be a usable player in there.

I'm overvaluing Boris Diaw? In my opinion, you (and about 85% of the board) are FAR overvaluing TJ Ford and underrating Boris. Ford is an injury waiting to happen. Boris can at least be dynamic. And again, we're talking about a coaching philosophy change here. There's a reason why LB could never play defense. A big part of it was the presence of the D'Antoni brothers. Now we have a new coach and these guys are good enough that they deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt.

If a good trade comes along that is too hard to pass up (CERTAINLY NOT the #17/TJ Ford deal), then do it. But the hypocrisy on the board is a bit overwhelming. Complaining about the lack of strength of the bench, yet advocating jettisoning off what little strength we have there for a chronically injured point guard and a draft pick that will get little or not playing time. Good idea!

EDIT: To be fair, I am for the LAC trade idea. I am 100% against the TOR one.

 

[AceP]

Toronto's #17 pick is too low. Diaw for Nestrovic is very much in their favor. But since we have a deep draft, it might be acceptable if we can grab both Brandon Rush and Robin Lopez at #15 and #17 as many mock draft predicted.

We definitely like to take #7 from the Clippers. But as some of u have said, Barbosa plus #15 is not a fair deal for us, because Maggette doesn't want to stay with them. We should keep the #15, or, give them Tucker in the package.

Also, in my opinion, Maggette is a suspectable choice for us. I know he is a great offensive weapon, attack the paint bravely and draw fouls very well, but he is not a shooter (low number of 3p attempt and %), I have no confidence on his defence, and, the biggest worry would be ball & shot sharing.

After all, I still suspect we might eventually work out a deal with New York.

 

[nowagimp]

That's absolutely not true. Boris is a big who isn't injury-prone. When Boris is properly motivated, he is one of the best big men off the bench in the league and he does have a terrific court vision.

The only question with him is about motivation. A fully-motivated Boris Diaw is 10 times the player TJ Ford is. The question is if he'll get motivated, and without seeing how Porter's presence will affect him, I think we can afford to wait because the reward is so high.

Every guard that gets past Nash and amare to finish is overrated on this board by most. Fans tend to see the skill of other players in the context of their own teams weaknesses.

 

[mojorizen7]

Every guard that gets past Nash and amare to finish is overrated on this board by most. Fans tend to see the skill of other players in the context of their own teams weaknesses.

I agree with that statement wholeheartedly but still ,it's a fact that this team is and has been a porous defensive team for many years and as a result has magnified the offensive skills of many players that have faced our guards,forwards, etc on a nightly basis. Scoring season & career highs against the SUNS has been the norm for the opposition for a reason. We've been a bad defensive team.