Reid: Eagles looked into Boldin trade (Philadelphia Inquirer)

[jaguarpaw81]

How inept of Rod to not agree to a trade below market value. Clearly a firing offence.

By-the-way... how exactly do you KNOW that Rod will be fired?

What was the offer? Oh wait, you dont know. And what is Boldin's market value? Oh wait, again you dont know. Your posts make you come off as a very condescending yet ignorant individual. Those two traits should never be combined.

The truth is that there is no such thing as market value because ones value is only what they can at that time. The Raiders reached for Heyward Bey in the draft and he will be paid as the 7th overall pick. no other team on earth would give him that. Does thta mean that that amount is his real market value? What if the Raiders had signed Usian Bolt April 24th, thus negating the need to pick a WR in the first? Would his market value still be what it is now?

The market was decent for Q prior to the draft because you had a small handfull of contending teams looking to add a marquee reciever that were willing to reach a bit further than usual because they thought Q may put them over the top. Now those teams have rook WRs who they will be grooming. Hence his value has already decreased significantly. He also had 2 years left on his deal so the Cards weren't too desperate. Q has made it clear he isn't going to re-sign with Arizona so teams know that the Cards are trying to get something for him before he goes and they get nothing in return.

I have my source and it really couldn't be any better of one. Mike B will be getting more and more power over the next few years and will have complete control within the next 5. I will put a wager as high as you like that Mr. Graves will not receive a new contract from the team.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

It really amazes me that this kind of stupidity continues to get posted on the board considering that ole inept Rod has helped build one of, if not the best offense in the NFL.

You are just not very smart are you?

So the Rod from 2003 wasn't really Rod? How good was our O 2 years ago?

Give credit where credit is due. Mike B stood strong and forced the hire of Whis and Whis and his staff that HE assembled are the reason for our recent success.

 

[40yearfan]

What was the offer? Oh wait, you dont know. And what is Boldin's market value? Oh wait, again you dont know. Your posts make you come off as a very condescending yet ignorant individual. Those two traits should never be combined.

The truth is that there is no such thing as market value because ones value is only what they can at that time. The Raiders reached for Heyward Bey in the draft and he will be paid as the 7th overall pick. no other team on earth would give him that. Does thta mean that that amount is his real market value? What if the Raiders had signed Usian Bolt April 24th, thus negating the need to pick a WR in the first? Would his market value still be what it is now?

The market was decent for Q prior to the draft because you had a small handfull of contending teams looking to add a marquee reciever that were willing to reach a bit further than usual because they thought Q may put them over the top. Now those teams have rook WRs who they will be grooming. Hence his value has already decreased significantly. He also had 2 years left on his deal so the Cards weren't too desperate. Q has made it clear he isn't going to re-sign with Arizona so teams know that the Cards are trying to get something for him before he goes and they get nothing in return.

I have my source and it really couldn't be any better of one. Mike B will be getting more and more power over the next few years and will have complete control within the next 5. I will put a wager as high as you like that Mr. Graves will not receive a new contract from the team.

Do you want to put a date behind that wager or does soon mean in the next 5 years? And of course, you can't reveal your source because they asked you not to. Yeah, right.

 

[40yearfan]

You are just not very smart are you?

So the Rod from 2003 wasn't really Rod? How good was our O 2 years ago?

Give credit where credit is due. Mike B stood strong and forced the hire of Whis and Whis and his staff that HE assembled are the reason for our recent success.

Typical, if it's something good is happening to this team it's someone else, but all the bad things are automatically RG's fault. You need to get your head out of the dirt and realize what kind of a team effort this has been to get the Cards out of their losing ways. There are a lot of people who deserve credit for this and Graves is certainly one of them. To say otherwise is capricious and arbitrary. To continuously bash the man even after the Cards win the NFC title and go to the SB says a lot about your personal vendetta.

 

[Zeno]

Q has made it clear he isn't going to re-sign with Arizona so teams know that the Cards are trying to get something for him before he goes and they get nothing in return.

Why worry about 2 years from now today? Ok Boldin won't re-sign with the Cards in the offseason of 2011 so we should accept less than what the team feels is acceptable right now? That doesn't make sense to me. This team was leading the Super Bowl with less than a minute to play...who knows where we will be in 2011, an offer would have to knock our socks off right now to get rid of a key piece of us getting there and I think that is sound reasoning for the team. Also if you think its only Rod Graves making such decisions I think you are really discounting Whisenhunt & Mike Bidwills input in to such matters.

 

[WildBB]

t.

He "suggested" the price "might".... that's coach speak for "We didn't get Anquan Boldin and we want to give Eagle fans the impression that we tried hard but the Cards wanted too much and I'm saying it like this so I don't put the Cards in the position that they have to publicly tell their fans I'm lying because I'm not."

That's it. There is nothing more there. The truths we know are that he did inquire about Boldin and did not get him.

And didn't make any kind of legitimate offer. End of story.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Do you want to put a date behind that wager or does soon mean in the next 5 years? And of course, you can't reveal your source because they asked you not to. Yeah, right.

Why would I put the guy out there? He told me something in confidence. Take it how you like.

 

[Zeno]

The truth is that there is no such thing as market value because ones value is only what they can at that time. The Raiders reached for Heyward Bey in the draft and he will be paid as the 7th overall pick. no other team on earth would give him that. Does thta mean that that amount is his real market value?

Actually it only takes 1 team to determine a players market value. If anyone is willing to pay that price (or in your example draft spot) then by result thats the set value for that player. Other teams have obviously different opinions but it only takes 1 team. For example the Cardinals thought Rashad Johnson's "value" was the second round and were torn whether to draft him or Brown at our pick...they were able to get him at their pick in the thrid round, that doesn't diminish his value to the Cardinals because to them he is a value pick but nearly every other team in the NFL had a player rated ahead of him in the third round.

No matter what the Cardinals said the value of Boldin was, that was their value--if nobody offered a deal equal or exceeding that then nobody chose to pay their price, it doesn't mean the team made a mistake. The Cardinals were 100% right in this instance.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

Actually it only takes 1 team to determine a players market value. If anyone is willing to pay that price (or in your example draft spot) then by result thats the set value for that player. Other teams have obviously different opinions but it only takes 1 team. For example the Cardinals thought Rashad Johnson's "value" was the second round and were torn whether to draft him or Brown at our pick...they were able to get him at their pick in the thrid round, that doesn't diminish his value to the Cardinals because to them he is a value pick but nearly every other team in the NFL had a player rated ahead of him in the third round.

No matter what the Cardinals said the value of Boldin was, that was their value--if nobody offered a deal equal or exceeding that then nobody chose to pay their price, it doesn't mean the team made a mistake. The Cardinals were 100% right in this instance.

Fair enough, good response. Thanks for proving your point......

 

[Crazy Canuck]

What was the offer? Oh wait, you dont know. And what is Boldin's market value? Oh wait, again you dont know. Your posts make you come off as a very condescending yet ignorant individual. Those two traits should never be combined.

The truth is that there is no such thing as market value because ones value is only what they can at that time. The Raiders reached for Heyward Bey in the draft and he will be paid as the 7th overall pick. no other team on earth would give him that. Does thta mean that that amount is his real market value? What if the Raiders had signed Usian Bolt April 24th, thus negating the need to pick a WR in the first? Would his market value still be what it is now?

The market was decent for Q prior to the draft because you had a small handfull of contending teams looking to add a marquee reciever that were willing to reach a bit further than usual because they thought Q may put them over the top. Now those teams have rook WRs who they will be grooming. Hence his value has already decreased significantly. He also had 2 years left on his deal so the Cards weren't too desperate. Q has made it clear he isn't going to re-sign with Arizona so teams know that the Cards are trying to get something for him before he goes and they get nothing in return.

I have my source and it really couldn't be any better of one. Mike B will be getting more and more power over the next few years and will have complete control within the next 5. I will put a wager as high as you like that Mr. Graves will not receive a new contract from the team.

Thanks for giving me a ready made "copy and paste" answer to your post:

Your posts make you come off as a very condescending yet ignorant individual. Those two traits should never be combined.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Give credit where credit is due. Mike B stood strong and forced the hire of Whis and Whis and his staff that HE assembled are the reason for our recent success.

I agree with this statement. I don't understand the Rod Graves apologist fans on this board. Okay maybe he was bashed quite a bit and maybe moreseo then he should have with how things have turned out under his watch (finally) the last two years.

But that doesn't mean that he was impetus in that positive change happening. If you go from timelines of coaching hires and decisions made its not exacly a leap in logic to see Graves was an innocent bystander.

I don't really know anything about any new contract or what but I certainly don't give Graves much credit. Its like people want to defend the cute little underdog or something. It's one thing to think some people are too hard on him. It's another to think he has some real value to the organzation for his acumen. As a side bet how fast do you think another team would give him a GM job should his contract not be renewed? It would be a cold day in hell I bet.

Don't you want somebody in that position who is the envy of the league and brings more to the table? I sure as hell do provided he is a Whisenhunt guy.

Keep in mind this is the guy that wanted to hire Ron Rivera over Whisenhunt and would have gotten is way had Mike B not intervened. Thats well documented.

For that reason alone he should be run out of town.

My best guess on what happens in the future? They let Graves contract run out. Wiz has established himself to the point where he can demand more personnel responsibilities. And then he has support from guys like McCreight and Kiem in advisory/president roles.

JMHO

 

[Arizona's Finest]

And for those of you that know NCAA basketball and are aware of how even with a stellar history of incompetence, an entire career can be saved with one dumb luck hire - to be filed under even a blind squirill finds a nut - see Livengood, Jim.

Jim Livengood = Rod Graves

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The cards announced they wanted a first and third...it was on the Cards main web page. I don't think they all of a sudden upped the price.

I think Reid is trying to calm the masses.

by flat out lying? c'mon man. that's ridiculous. no public sporting figure is going to lie to the press when they other team can so easily deny it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm so sick of having to ferret out the manure in what others misstate to pile on to Graves.

Here again is Reid's quote, which was properly shown in the thread starter:


Now, Ouchie, as a lawyer trained in the use of logic and language, who uses argument to make a living, tell me please, from that quote, where Andy Reid told us what the Cards wanted for Boldin.

He didn't really tell us anything, did he? Not what he offered. Not what the Cards said they wanted. He didn't even tell us if the Cards gave him a solid idea of what they might accept.

He "suggested" the price "might".... that's coach speak for "We didn't get Anquan Boldin and we want to give Eagle fans the impression that we tried hard but the Cards wanted too much and I'm saying it like this so I don't put the Cards in the position that they have to publicly tell their fans I'm lying because I'm not."

That's it. There is nothing more there. The truths we know are that he did inquire about Boldin and did not get him.

i think you're reading waaay too much into the word "suggested." regardless, it doesn't matter, nothing happened and it doesn't change anything in any of our worlds.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Keep in mind this is the guy that wanted to hire Ron Rivera over Whisenhunt and would have gotten is way had Mike B not intervened. Thats well documented.

i don't like graves, but i didn't know that! where would i find support for this?

 

[Skkorpion]

jaguarpaw, lots of people don't like Graves. So what? Fans can dislike anybody they want.

I don't believe your claim to have inside information on Rod Graves' relationship with Michael Bidwill. Graves might very well be let go when his contract runs out. He might even be fired before that. Who knows? I don't and neither do you.

ESPN just played part of that Andy Reid interview. I listened. The Philly Enquirer got his quote wrong from the very beginning. (No doubt, they'll play it again. Listen to it.)

Andy Reid said "Lets just say...." not Reid "suggested...." Reid made a hypothetical statement, completely avoiding discussing what the trade offers were.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

i don't like graves, but i didn't know that! where would i find support for this?

I would have to look for links but it was reported multiple times that Rivera was Rod's guy through his intermediaries still in Chicago towards the end of the coaching search.

I am sure a couple other guys on the site with long memories can support this.

Edit: Found this during a quick google search

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/NFC/NFC+West/Arizona/WWHI/default.htm?channel=2006

Team sources indicated another feather in Whisenhunt’s cap was his apparent willingness, at this writing, to retain defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast, whom the Cardinals still consider a valued employee. We’re told the Pendergast factor, as well as other philosophical differences on the makeup of their potential staffs, might have been the biggest strikes against two other candidates previously considered to have strong support within the organization — Bears defensive coordinator Ron Rivera, who was believed to be V.P. of football operations Rod Graves’ favored choice, and Titans offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who was being heavily touted by Cardinals QB Matt Leinart after the rookie had played under Chow at USC.

 

[NuttinButTDs]

A good read on the evaluation of what Reid said

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcwest/0-9-77/Evaluating-potential-asking-price-for-Boldin.html

 

[Shane]

The cards announced they wanted a first and third...it was on the Cards main web page. I don't think they all of a sudden upped the price.

I think Reid is trying to calm the masses.

No the cards did not announce that. In fact they specifically states that they never said that!

 

[Buckybird]

You are just not very smart are you?

So the Rod from 2003 wasn't really Rod? How good was our O 2 years ago?

Give credit where credit is due. Mike B stood strong and forced the hire of Whis and Whis and his staff that HE assembled are the reason for our recent success.

thank you!!! I really get the impression players don't really care for Graves or trust him.

 

[Mitch]

I'm so sick of having to ferret out the manure in what others misstate to pile on to Graves.

Here again is Reid's quote, which was properly shown in the thread starter:


He didn't really tell us anything, did he? Not what he offered. Not what the Cards said they wanted. He didn't even tell us if the Cards gave him a solid idea of what they might accept.

He "suggested" the price "might".... that's coach speak for "We didn't get Anquan Boldin and we want to give Eagle fans the impression that we tried hard but the Cards wanted too much and I'm saying it like this so I don't put the Cards in the position that they have to publicly tell their fans I'm lying because I'm not."

That's it. There is nothing more there. The truths we know are that he did inquire about Boldin and did not get him.

Precisely right. Reid was saving face. He promised Donovan McNabb he would supply him with as many weapons as possible this off-season, and had to sound like he made a pitch for Boldin, when he did nothing of the sort.

Reid confirmed WHY they didn't make a pitch (too much to give up--he speculated--and too expensive a payout--such is the case with Rosenhaus WRs)...which is what we've all been suspecting all along.

To this date we only know of one confirmed offer, da Bears offering their #49 pick. That's it folks. All other talk is superfluous...and not worth wondering about.

Thanks for making sense of this Skkorp. You nailed it.

 

[40yearfan]

I agree with this statement. I don't understand the Rod Graves apologist fans on this board. Okay maybe he was bashed quite a bit and maybe moreseo then he should have with how things have turned out under his watch (finally) the last two years.

But that doesn't mean that he was impetus in that positive change happening. If you go from timelines of coaching hires and decisions made its not exacly a leap in logic to see Graves was an innocent bystander.

I don't really know anything about any new contract or what but I certainly don't give Graves much credit. Its like people want to defend the cute little underdog or something. It's one thing to think some people are too hard on him. It's another to think he has some real value to the organzation for his acumen. As a side bet how fast do you think another team would give him a GM job should his contract not be renewed? It would be a cold day in hell I bet.

Don't you want somebody in that position who is the envy of the league and brings more to the table? I sure as hell do provided he is a Whisenhunt guy.

Keep in mind this is the guy that wanted to hire Ron Rivera over Whisenhunt and would have gotten is way had Mike B not intervened. Thats well documented.

For that reason alone he should be run out of town.

My best guess on what happens in the future? They let Graves contract run out. Wiz has established himself to the point where he can demand more personnel responsibilities. And then he has support from guys like McCreight and Kiem in advisory/president roles.

JMHO

Mind telling me where this is documented at? I sure don't remember it.

 

[40yearfan]

I would have to look for links but it was reported multiple times that Rivera was Rod's guy through his intermediaries still in Chicago towards the end of the coaching search.

I am sure a couple other guys on the site with long memories can support this.

Edit: Found this during a quick google search

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/NFC/NFC+West/Arizona/WWHI/default.htm?channel=2006

Team sources indicated another feather in Whisenhunt’s cap was his apparent willingness, at this writing, to retain defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast, whom the Cardinals still consider a valued employee. We’re told the Pendergast factor, as well as other philosophical differences on the makeup of their potential staffs, might have been the biggest strikes against two other candidates previously considered to have strong support within the organization — Bears defensive coordinator Ron Rivera, who was believed to be V.P. of football operations Rod Graves’ favored choice, and Titans offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who was being heavily touted by Cardinals QB Matt Leinart after the rookie had played under Chow at USC.

This is what you call well documented? Believed to be? Oh vay!!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

This is what you call well documented? Believed to be? Oh vay!!

http://www.thehuddle.com/nfl_team_rpts/NFLteam_rpt_a.php?teamID=6&portID=437

But he's got a lot of competition. After interviewing Rivera on Wednesday, Cardinals vice president Michael Bidwill and vice president of football operations Rod Graves, a former head of player personnel with the Bears. Graves was a scout for the Bears while Rivera was a linebacker with the team from 1984-92 and is considered a fan of his. He and Bidwill met with Texans assistant head coach Mike Sherman on Thursday.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/michael_silver/01/04/coaches/

Graves and Rivera worked together in Chicago years ago, and he'd be the ideal leader to instill toughness and take this talented team out of the depths of protracted failure.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-156576278.html

Former Bears personnel chief Rod Graves, given a three-year extension last week as the Cardinals' vice president of operations, contacted the Bears regarding Rivera, who played for the Bears when Graves was in the personnel department.


Do I need to go on? Or maybe that was just random coincidence.

Essentially you are going to believe what you want to believe. IIRC Rivera was initally considered the front runner because of that tie and outsiders thinking Graves had the manin say-so after getting his three year extension. But Mike convinced Bill Sr Offense was the way to go and he wa snot even a final consideration.

Not to make assumptions but you likely are fond of Graves for the same reason Bill Sr is. He represents something good about the organization, has a warms style and is classy, and has a firm handshake.

I on the other hand want a GM with excellent player relations for negotiations, an eye for talent, and the ability to look multiple years ahead and stick to a program. Graves has shown little to no ability in any of those facets.

Be a Graves apologist all you want. It's no skin off my back. But you can see how important Mike thinks Graves is by the bringing in of McCreight, letting him run out his contract, Kiem getting promoted, and Whisenhunt getting the final say on players both FA and the draft.

He'll either be phased out at some point or continued to be kept on in a puppet like role where he is at the press conferences but the strategy is done by other people. Maybe they will even give him some superficial title as Bill Sr takes care of him like a family member. Who knows?

Graves may not be as bad as some people make him out to be but he certainly isn't anywhere near the Top 50 reasons we have had success the last 2 years. At least thats how I see it. But defend him all you want.

oh and its "oy vay" :JBIM:

 

[az1965]

Once again, way to go Rod. I know he'll be fired soon and that's the only things that keeps me from going off more about his ineptiitude.