Republic: D'Antoni is proud, thankful

[Mulli]

Its hopeless Irish, people don't want to be bothered to think. Its much easier to just dismiss things out of hand. Never-mind the Bulls were a small team that won 6 titles in the 90s.

The Bulls may have been small, but they were seriously committed to defense. And I am thinking they have several other "bigs" or interior players than Rodman. Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright come to mind.

 

[Rab]

Its hopeless Irish, people don't want to be bothered to think. Its much easier to just dismiss things out of hand. Never-mind the Bulls were a small team that won 6 titles in the 90s.

They had Michael Jordan.

How many other "small" teams have won titles?

I don't think they were that small. They always had a near 7 footer playing down low (Cartwright, Longley, Perdue, Wennington, Brian Williams). Horace Grant wasn't undersized. Rodman maybe a little, but he always played much bigger than he really was, so that didn't matter. Kukoc was big enough to play the 4, and even bigger when he played the 3.

They were not a gimmick team. They didn't try to beat teams by outquciking them. They were commited to defense, rebounding, & controlling tempo. Then on the other end, they were very efficient in their halfcourt triangle offense. They could beat you a number of ways, something the Suns couldn't do on any consistent basis.

And let's not forget those Bulls teams even if someone considered them small, played fantastic defense.....something the Nelson, D'Antoni teams have never been accused of doing.

 

[HooverDam]

The Bulls may have been small, but they were seriously committed to defense. And I am thinking they have several other "bigs" or interior players than Rodman. Horace Grant and Bill Cartwright come to mind.

OK.....? Again, I'm not advocating putting 5 players on the floor who can't defend. I wish the Suns still had KT, he's similar to Cartwright in his being a defensive, rebounding role player (though if memory serves Cartwright was a better shot blocker).

Again, the point of fact is, reducing everything to 'small vs big' is foolish and demonstrates a general lack of understanding of how complicated winning in the NBA actually is. If the Suns win a title this upcoming season it will likely be because Amare improved a ton on defense and became the beast/nearly the best player in the league more than them being 'big'. As of right now, I'd take Kurt Thomas as a defender over Shaq for sure, but people will give Shaq undo credit because of his size.

They had Michael Jordan.

How many other "small" teams have won titles?

I don't think they were that small. They always had a near 7 footer playing down low (Cartwright, Longley, Perdue, Wennington, Brian Williams). Horace Grant wasn't undersized. Rodman maybe a little, but he always played much bigger than he really was, so that didn't matter. Kukoc was big enough to play the 4, and even bigger when he played the 3.

They were not a gimmick team. They didn't try to beat teams by outquciking them. They were commited to defense and rebounding, & controlling tempo. Then on the other end, they were very efficient in their halfcourt triangle offense. They could beat you a number of ways, something the Suns couldn't do on any consistent basis.

And let's not forget those Bulls teams even if someone considered them small, played fantastic defense.....something the Nelson, D'Antoni teams have never been accused of doing.

We're discussing small vs big here. I agree, D'Antoni should've put more emphasis on defense and the Suns should drafted/signed some more defensive players.

People who criticize a team as being too small aren't going to see a guy like Bill Cartwright, Will Perdue or Luc Longley (who were all quite mediocre) and think 'oh they're a big team'. When people say a team is small they're complaining that they don't have a Hakeem, Shaq or Robert Parish in the middle. The Celtics won it all this year with an elite PF, two other All Stars (a formula which the Suns sort of had going with Amare-Marion-Nash, but ah well) and not much from the Center spot, so titles can certainly be won w/ out an All Star level center.

 

[Andrew]

As sad as it hurts to say, I like our odds with Porter than D'Antoni. We only saw spurts of good defense last season, imagine a whole season with that. Porter will bring in his defense, no doubt about that. I think we will be better than last year.

I still don't get why Mike left. He never seemed like the type of guy to just follow the money. I mean if it was a Kerr thing, work it out. You are two grown ass men. Don't run from your problems....

 

[mojorizen7]

What do we mean by "works"? If you mean winning the championship ti it simple. You need a more superstars than the other team. As far as I can tell, the Pistons are the only team without an ultra elite player and they never repeated.

Size per say is not really the answer. In the last three championships by the Bulls they had a 6'8" power forward named Rodman who had 16 rpg in one season. The reason we don't call it a "small ball" team was that Phil Jackson did not believe in the running game. But that was a team with only one big in the starting lineup and he was the infamous Luc Longley.

The Bulls are the exception because of #23......nuff said.
You can't put an all-star roster of 6'6"-6'8" guys together and get it done so size does matter

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[mojorizen7]

They had Michael Jordan.

How many other "small" teams have won titles?

I don't think they were that small. They always had a near 7 footer playing down low (Cartwright, Longley, Perdue, Wennington, Brian http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZCxdm565MOUS Williams). Horace Grant wasn't undersized. Rodman maybe a little, but he always played much bigger than he really was, so that didn't matter. Kukoc was big enough to play the 4, and even bigger when he played the 3.

They were not a gimmick team. They didn't try to beat teams by outquciking them. They were commited to defense, rebounding, & controlling tempo. Then on the other end, they were very efficient in their halfcourt triangle offense. They could beat you a number of ways, something the Suns couldn't do on any consistent basis.

And let's not forget those Bulls teams even if someone considered them small, played fantastic defense.....something the Nelson, D'Antoni teams have never been accused of doing.

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[mojorizen7]

Never-mind the Bulls were a small team that won 6 titles in the 90s.

Nevermind that they had probably the greatest player and competitor that ever played the game....and you talk about others not thinking.
I'm beginning to think that you don't. The manner in which you continue to off-handedly accuse others of being lazy and simple minded with their thinking only shows your ignorance of the concept of "debate."
Your love for D'Umbtoni ball is hilariously loyal in my eyes.

 

[HooverDam]

Nevermind that they had probably the greatest player and competitor that ever played the game....and you talk about others not thinking.
I'm beginning to think that you don't. The manner in which you continue to off-handedly accuse others of being lazy and simple minded with their thinking only shows your ignorance of the concept of "debate."
Your love for D'Umbtoni ball is hilariously loyal in my eyes.

"D'Umbtoni", are you 7 years old?

 

[mojorizen7]

"D'Umbtoni", are you 7 years old?

I'll tell you what.....i'm going to put you on ignore until small ball wins anything because i seriously can't stand your ignorance that reeks of arrogance.
In other words....any last words?

 

[HooverDam]

I'll tell you what.....i'm going to put you on ignore until small ball wins anything because i seriously can't stand your ignorance that reeks of arrogance.
In other words....any last words?

Nope, Im glad I won't have to try to educate you on a game you don't know anything about anymore, that'll be a nice change. Having the best players leads to NBA titles not simply being 'big'. People like you who rely on nothing but sports cliché's to inform their knowledge of a game are completely aggravating.

 

[mojorizen7]

Nope, Im glad I won't have to try to educate you on a game you don't know anything about anymore, that'll be a nice change. Having the best players leads to NBA titles not simply being 'big'. People like you who rely on nothing but sports cliché's to inform their knowledge of a game are completely aggravating.

Ok. Bye.

 

[Mainstreet]

As sad as it hurts to say, I like our odds with Porter than D'Antoni. We only saw spurts of good defense last season, imagine a whole season with that. Porter will bring in his defense, no doubt about that. I think we will be better than last year.

Don't you think it's a bit early to say... "I like our odds with Porter than D'Antoni." I hope your perception becomes reality but Porter has not proven anything with the Suns.

I still don't get why Mike left. He never seemed like the type of guy to just follow the money. I mean if it was a Kerr thing, work it out. You are two grown ass men. Don't run from your problems....

Try carrying Sarver and Kerr on your back. Have you ever had an employer constantly watching over every move you make? It's not pleasant. In this regard it was better for D'Antoni and the Suns to part ways amicably.

 

[msdundee]

"D'Umbtoni"

A lighter approach: Seems to be the latest fad, and nobody's immune ... "D'Umbtoni" ... "Slaq" ... "Doris" ... "Kome" ... "Ginosebili" ... "Whorry" ... and lots more.

The Name Change Game needs some rules, though. Seems like it's cheating to take out two letters and put in three. It should be restricted to -1 and +1 just to make it more of a challenge.

Same goes for IDs.
Mine would be easy--and yes, I've heard it already.
Yours would be easier (either insulting or flattering, depending on interpretation).

 

[mojorizen7]

A lighter approach: Seems to be the latest fad, and nobody's immune ... "D'Umbtoni" ... "Slaq" ... "Doris" ... "Kome" ... "Ginosebili" ... "Whorry" ... and lots more.

The Name Change Game needs some rules, though. Seems like it's cheating to take out two letters and put in three. It should be restricted to -1 and +1 just to make it more of a challenge.

Same goes for IDs.
Mine would be easy--and yes, I've heard it already.
Yours would be easier (either insulting or flattering, depending on interpretation).

 

[Irish]

People sometimes ask why I start threads when there is already one on the subject. Usually it is because the old one has degenerated into nonsense.

For example - this thread.

 

[msdundee]

People sometimes ask why I start threads when there is already one on the subject. Usually it is because the old one has degenerated into nonsense.

For example - this thread.

Nonsense. It was a great article--but because it was flattering to DA, it was also bound to start some kind of fuss.

 

[shazaam6]

Don't you think it's a bit early to say... "I like our odds with Porter than D'Antoni." I hope your perception becomes reality but Porter has not proven anything with the Suns.



Try carrying Sarver and Kerr on your back. Have you ever had an employer constantly watching over every move you make? It's not pleasant. In this regard it was better for D'Antoni and the Suns to part ways amicably.

If the boss has suggestions that he thinks would help and you won't try them, what happens? The boss says "Ok let's see what happens if we keep doing it your way."

Same unsatisfactory result.

Ok now try using my(Boss) suggestions.

D'antoni said no.

Audios.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the boss has suggestions that he thinks would help and you won't try them, what happens? The boss says "Ok let's see what happens if we keep doing it your way."

Same unsatisfactory result.

Ok now try using my(Boss) suggestions.

D'antoni said no.

Audios.

I understand what you are saying. If you can't win a Championship in four full seasons averaging 57 wins a season and two appearances in the WCFs... you're out of here. I guess D'Antoni needed help from an amateur owner and an amateur GM.



Still I hope there is a learning curve for these two before Sarver decides to sell the team and move on.

I'm glad for D'Antoni he left the Suns on his terms.

 

[shazaam6]

I understand what you are saying. If you can't win a Championship in four full seasons averaging 57 wins a season and two appearances in the WCFs... you're out of here. I guess D'Antoni needed help from an amateur owner and an amateur GM.



Still I hope there is a learning curve for these two before Sarver decides to sell the team and move on.

I'm glad for D'Antoni he left the Suns on his terms.

Me too.

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So we're both happy.

 

[BC867]

I still don't get why Mike left. He never seemed like the type of guy to just follow the money. I mean if it was a Kerr thing, work it out. You are two grown ass men. Don't run from your problems.

Announced that it was not his job to develop young players.

Stubbornly used 7-man rotations, which caused his teams to drag their butts into the post-season year after year.

Disregarded the need for team balance, starting with . . . defense.

His problem was that he was not a complete Head Coach. He had basketball obsessions, drummed into his head by his Dad, a basketball coach.

The only thing he offered -- a basketball gimmick which provided excitement during the regular seasons -- ran its course.

The only thing he could do was move on. The gimmick will be probably be well received in New York. The only expectations are to raise the Knicks to over .500 during the season and bring some excitement back to the fans.

Once that happens for a couple of years, D'Antoni's gimmick will get stale and the New York Press corps will make mince meat of him.

He thought Phoenix got bad? He ain't seen nuthin' yet.

 

[mojorizen7]

Announced that it was not his job to develop young players.

Stubbornly used 7-man rotations, which caused his teams to drag their butts into the post-season year after year.

Disregarded the need for team balance, starting with . . . defense.

His problem was that he was not a complete Head Coach. He had basketball obsessions, drummed into his head by his Dad, a basketball coach.

The only thing he offered -- a basketball gimmick which provided excitement during the regular seasons -- ran its course.

The only thing he could do was move on. The gimmick will be probably be well received in New York. The only expectations are to raise the Knicks to over .500 during the season and bring some excitement back to the fans.

Once that happens for a couple of years, D'Antoni's gimmick will get stale and the New York Press corps will make mince meat of him.

He thought Phoenix got bad? He ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Careful BC, you're talking in cliches and we know that cliches are born from nothing.... as are stereotypes etc...

 

[BC867]

Careful BC, you're talking in cliches and we know that cliches are born from nothing.... as are stereotypes etc...

I appreciate your response. But how is a quote from the former Coach ("It's not my job to develop young players.") and one from an NBA player (saying he did not want to come to the Suns because he knew the Coach played only 7 or 8 players deep) cliches?

Or giving the opinion that D'Antoni was not a complete Coach. Or that he did not stress or coach defense.

Weren't the things that motivated him to leave centered on those facts?

Y'know, there's another factor, too. One that human nature is difficult to overcome. D'Antoni had the title of GM, then was replaced by Kerr, and had to report to him with a different team philosophy.

In industry, a company executive in those circumstances would leave, too.

As I posted referring to our 'friend' Bob Melvin, it's the old Peter Principle, In a hierarchy, every employee tends to reach his level of incompetence.

What does a person do when he or she reaches that level? Usually, they find another place to work.

Give D'Antoni credit. He recognized it and made a move. And at the third highest salary of all NBA coaches.

Bob Melvin, on the other hand, is too passive to make such a decision. And he knows that based on his sub+.500 record, wherever he's been, he wouldn't be able to land another Manager job, let alone major bucks.

 

[mojorizen7]

I was being sarcastic in the face of others. It's safe to say that we agree on all things D'Antoni related.

 

[Irish]

I was being sarcastic in the face of others. It's safe to say that we agree on all things D'Antoni related.

We need to know if you are being sarcastic. There are ways to let us know if that's your point.

Sometimes people say things that they don't mean. You may think you are being funny but sometimes it just leaves us confused.

 

[BC867]

I was being sarcastic in the face of others. It's safe to say that we agree on all things D'Antoni related.

Ah, thanks.