Robert Archibald

elindholm

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LOL, great showing in the final exhibition game. Five minutes, 0-1 from the field, zero rebounds, one assist, three fouls, one technical.

Yep, the Suns sure did pick up a gem there.

Anyone know why Hardaway didn't play? It's good to see Johnson log 42 minutes and be solid across the board.
 

jbeecham

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Hardaway was having back spasms. I listened to the game and it was a pretty good game and close all the way through. Neither team had more than a 5 pt lead at any time. Joe sounded very aggressive and had a few dunks tonight and they were even in traffic (at least from the way it sounded on the radio).
 
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Wally

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I have the same question reguarding Penny. Isn't this his 2nd DNP in a row? Sure hope he's not injured again.
 

jbeecham

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Originally posted by Wally
I have the same question reguarding Penny. Isn't this his 2nd DNP in a row? Sure hope he's not injured again.

Or maybe they're trying to trade him and don't want him to get hurt in a game before the deal goes through.
 

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Also, Barbosa didn't play because he and Voshkul collided in practice yesterday and he fell badly on his hip. It's supposed to just be a contusion and he should be good for Tuesday's season opener in S.A.
 

hcsilla

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Originally posted by jbeecham
Or maybe they're trying to trade him and don't want him to get hurt in a game before the deal goes through.
I had the same thought or rather the same hope.
 

Chaplin

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Come on, geez, it's just a case of back spasms. If a player was having some back pain, definitely--sit him out the last two games that don't matter. What's the big deal?
 

Errntknght

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Went to the game tonight... $5 ticket from a scalper and I parked on the street a block from AWA.

As Eric mentioned Archie didn't have much of a game... he didn't even get his money's worth on the three fouls or the T. After watching him I'd have to say that Koturovic must have been horrible. On one play it looked like he was going to get a chance on a fast break but Marbs put on a burst of speed and left him in the dust.

The good news is that Jake looked pretty solid - he tried to do too much on defense but I imagine that's what FJ wanted him to do. Not as bad as last year though... at least, he stayed in the paint. If he can stay healthy and Frank plays him consistenly, I think he'll settle down and be as good as, say, Ostertag or Battie. He was open for one jumper tonight and went right up with it and stuck it. I was glad to see that because that's the kind of thing we need from him offensively. He wasn't blocking out too well on the boards, though.

Casey looks the same as last year, which IMO means he doesn't belong in the NBA. Heck, he was still jackknifing on his perimeter shots.

Googs moved fairly well but he was overmatched playing center, which he did when Jake was out. His shot was falling early on but down the stretch he missed every one - wide open from 18 feet... you know the shot. He has to be hitting them because the team isn't using his passing ability and he has lost his toughness around the basket. He isn't laboring up and down the floor, which is nice to see but that in itself it's not worth a whole lot to the game.

Stoudemire looked good but he left the game limping in the fourth quarter - it didn't look serious but still you worry. He didn't look lost on defense but he had trouble containing Zach Randolph, who is strong and has quite a repretoire of shots. There is still no hint that FJ even conceives of running the offense thru Amare part of the time. I suppose he and his teammates will work out some stuff on their own eventually.

Marion's added muscle wasn't evident in this game but then he was going up against Rasheed. Overall, the Blazers controlled the boards rather handily with SG Bonzi Wells grabbing quite a few besides all their big men. Luckily, Marbury picked up several off the floor or the Suns would have been drubbed.

JJ had a middling game... not a disappearing act but he wasn't stellar by any means. Bonzi didn't try posting him up much but there wasn't any need of it as Rasheed and Randolph were operating effectively down low. On the other hand Bonzi was a factor on the boards and JJ wasn't.

Marbury didn't look as laid back as reports from earlier games indicated but he didn't get cranked up either. He seemed content to run the offense and kick it out when he did penetrate. I do think Frank wanted the team to win this game and they did stay in it all the way but faltered down the stretch... just what they didn't do last year.

Knight's okay... he's very quick. Barbosa didn't play, which was very disappointing for me.

Trybanski didn't play... another disappointment. He didn't look as skinny as I expected and during warm ups he looked like he moves fairly well. I wonder if they're contemplating cutting Archibald and were giving him a last look - because the way he played I can't imagine a guy who can block shots at all being left sitting while Archie diddled around on the floor.

One preseason game isn't much to judge things on but one thing for sure - we need much more off then bench than Googs and Casey are going to give us. We're going to need quite a lot from Penny and Zarko at the very least. I'd say that Zarko is going to get a ton of opportunity to contribute, as he may well turn out to be our best backup at 3, 4 and 5. That's how thin we looked in this game! Knight will be okay as the backup PG but if Barbosa can come in and change the tempo of the game that will be a big plus. Marbury and Marion are going to have to step it up and I expect they will...
 
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Chaplin

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Sounds to me that although we stayed close throughout the entire game, this game might be a good example of why Frank Johnson just isn't a very good coach. It's not just x's and o's, it's basic, fundamental things such as matchups. I just don't understand why we don't give our biggest player even a few minutes in the game against a huge team like Portland.

Maybe I just have a different philosophy. In a fast-paced game like basketball, it seems to me that you can EASILY put in a player for a few minutes and see if he can contribute without really relinquishing either a lead or momentum. To me, in a preseason game, no less, Trybanski could have played at least 5 minutes tonight--just doesn't seem smart to me that FJ doesn't even try to play him. I mean, what's the point in keeping him? I guess they just need someone to guard Voskuhl in practice. :rolleyes:
 

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And my favorite tidbit from tonights recap is down below. Does anyone know who the other 2 players were in the line-up down the stretch? I hope it was at least Amare and Jake. Jake's boxscore looks good with 10pts, 8brds and 3asts. And he only had one foul in 30 minutes. Very solid. If someone here reports that Jake was not on the floor at the end after producing those stats I'll be really peeved. We're forced to suffer through small ball but that would be a whole other level of insanity. If we see this type of line-up during crunch time during the regular season then this team doesn't really stand a chance as witnessed by the result of this game. Do these supposed excellent assistant coaches we have sitting on the bench not having any influence with FJ. Or are they the ones game planning this crap? Just someone please tell me Jake was on the floor...

AP - Oct 24, 11:21 pm EDT

"...and the Portland Trail Blazers pulled away in the final 1 1/2 minutes to beat the Phoenix Suns 95-92 Friday night in the final exhibition game for both teams...
Phoenix went with a small lineup that included guards Stephon Marbury, Joe Johnson and Brevin Knight down the stretch and they were shut down by the much bigger Blazers."


ABSOLUTELY CLASSIC. I shouldn't be surprised yet none the less I still feel ill reading that recap.
 

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Rebounds:
Portland 45
Phoenix 32

Offensive rebounds:
Portland 19
Phoenix 11

There is the difference in the game. Amare Stoudemire and Shawn Marion combined for 10 rebounds in 75 minutes. That's just not going to get it done.

A few things I don't want to see in the regular-season, but I'm sure I will.

1. Casey Jacobsen playing more than garbage minutes if the other bench players are healthy. Casey just isn't very good.

2. Brevin Knight and Marbury in the game together.

3. Robert Archibald. It obviously has no business in an NBA game. It's absolutely baffling and we have not heard Try0anski play at all in the last couple of games. It's as bad as Frank Johnson not playing Jake Tsakalidis one minute in the playoffs last year.

4. Shawn Marion and Amare Stoudemire combining for only 10 rebounds. Someone can call me out when this happens, but I don't think the Phoenix Suns will in one game this year where those two combine for less than 15 rebounds.

Joe Mama
 
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elindholm

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Does anyone know who the other 2 players were in the line-up down the stretch? I hope it was at least Amare and Jake.

I'd bet anything they were Marion and Stoudemire, but I don't know for sure.

If someone here reports that Jake was not on the floor at the end after producing those stats I'll be really peeved.

Get used to it.
 

jbeecham

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Jake pretty much had those stats by halftime. I believe he had 8 points and 6 rebounds at the half.
 

F-Dog

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Boy, the Suns can't win with you guys. If they don't play a center, it's the end of the world; if they do play one, he's the wrong one, he sucks and they should get him out of there.

:rolleyes:

Of course Archibald sucks. He's a second-year player at a position that usually takes 3+ years to learn.

With any luck, they're going to keep sending him out there this year, to suck and suck and suck some more. That's probably not going to happen, though--between Jake and Zarko and Googs (and God help us, Shawn Marion), there probably won't be room for any other centers, not even Scott Williams.


Oh yeah, if Trybanski was the one getting minutes in every game while Archibald was stuck to the bench, I guarantee you'd be screaming for Archibald right now.
 

slinslin

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Except that Trybanski has better size than Archibald, has a longer and bigger contract and has actually shown something while playing.
Archibald has only shown that he sucks.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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well I hope dropping lampe and getting Lil Jake was a good move for my fantasy team. After this it seems like he will do nicely at least while Kandi is out
 
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elindholm

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If they don't play a center, it's the end of the world; if they do play one, he's the wrong one, he sucks and they should get him out of there.

I don't think too many people on this board have ever complained about Voskuhl (or Tsakalidis) being on the floor at crunch time. Of course, that is because it has almost never happened. But the results have been encouraging. There was a game against the Jazz sometime last season which the Suns won because Tsakalidis stood right in front of Malone and shut the Jazz down on two critical possessions. (Note that this was a Jazz team lacking a credible threat at center, which would ordinarily be a sure-fire "justification" for the Suns to go small.) And of course there was Voskuhl in Game 4 against the Spurs last year.

My guess is that having a center on the floor at the end of the game, statistically, has a better recent track record than going with small ball. It seems that those infatuated with small ball remember only its few successes, rather than its many, many failures. It is a basic lack of critical thinking -- the same kind that identified Dan Langhi as "a good shooter" because he makes three buckets in a row once every two weeks.
 

F-Dog

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Originally posted by elindholm
If they don't play a center, it's the end of the world; if they do play one, he's the wrong one, he sucks and they should get him out of there.

I don't think too many people on this board have ever complained about Voskuhl (or Tsakalidis) being on the floor at crunch time. Of course, that is because it has almost never happened.

You mean to say that nobody around here has ever been down on Voskuhl? Even right after he arrived, when he was a lousy second-round pick, who was too small to play center and a foul magnet besides?

Obviously, few will complain now--he's the hero of game 4 and the only halfway-decent center on the roster. The question is, who was willing to sack up and support Voskuhl two years ago, when he wasn't any good.


Hey, guess what? The Suns were willing to do just that. Maybe there's a little critical thinking going on in the organization after all...nah, probably just dumb luck! ;)
 

slinslin

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Voshkul was better than Archibald back then.

Wasn't Voshkul a big part in leading Uconn to a NCAA championship? He was a better player than Archibald coming out of college too.
 

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Voskuhl was a role player in college, just like Archibald was. UConn didn't win the national championship because of him.

Voskuhl's rookie year, in Chicago, he shot 44% and averaged 2.4 fouls and .8 turnovers in less than 10 min/game. He only got onto the court in 16 games, and IIRC the Bulls were the worst team in the league that year.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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Yeah, the worst team in the league with 2 other big men rookies. You know the two who were supposed to be starts...Curry and Chandler. Voskuhl was going to get zero developement there with 2 big men projects already
 
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elindholm

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You mean to say that nobody around here has ever been down on Voskuhl?

Don't be belligerent. Of course people have been down on Voskuhl. However, I don't think those people have said that Voskuhl should be disqualified from crunch-time minutes.

I, for one, didn't think much of Voskuhl when he arrived, but I know for a fact that I have never said that crunch-time small ball is preferable to trying to make it work with an actual center.

when he ... was too small to play center and a foul magnet besides?

I have said that he picks up way too many stupid offensive fouls on moving screens, but I didn't say those other things, and I don't remember more than one or two other people saying them either.

Hey, guess what? The Suns were willing to do just that. Maybe there's a little critical thinking going on in the organization after all...nah, probably just dumb luck!

Was it critical thinking or dumb luck that ushered Stoudemire into the starting lineup when Gugliotta was unable to perform? You tell me.
 

hcsilla

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Originally posted by F-Dog
Voskuhl was a role player in college, just like Archibald was. UConn didn't win the national championship because of him.


And Iowa didn't win anything because of Archibald.

Moreover it wasn't even sure that Archibald will be drafted.
He got drafted surprisingly highly as one of Jerry West's brilliant moves.
 

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