Robert Sarver discusses team struggles

[Chaplin]

No he is not but Sarver in a little over 10 years has created an image for himself with players and owners that is not exactly positive.

True, but Sterling is something completely different.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

True, but Sterling is something completely different.

Either way, we're talking about clueless owners who don't win. Whether it's a Sterling or a Sarver, I don't want one of them.

 

[BC867]

What a joke! Are the Suns the only team with Millennials?

If all the Millennials were purged from the NBA there'd be no NBA.

Sarver doesn't understand sports management. Or public relations. He is still nothing but a small time banker.

Unfortunately, he is evidently too ignorant or egotistical to realize that it is time for him to move on.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

He is fine being an owner, but he sucks at being CEO, which he certainly should not be. He should not be anywhere near basketball decisions, other than allowing or denying the budget. But since he can't see that, or can't control himself, it would be best for him to sell.

 

[Chaplin]

He is fine being an owner, but he sucks at being CEO, which he certainly should not be. He should not be anywhere near basketball decisions, other than allowing or denying the budget. But since he can't see that, or can't control himself, it would be best for him to sell.

Here's the problem. He actually DID step back when he first hired McD. Babby then ALSO stepped back (presumably), leaving Ryan supposedly on his own to make decisions.

Well, we all know that McD has failed at least up until this point. Which of course leads to Sarver again dipping his hand in operations. Think about it--before this "talking to" he did with the players around Christmas, how much involvement did he have? Certainly not a lot was reported. Whether him being more involved now is a help is certainly debatable, but he doesn't play the game and he doesn't call the plays. And outside of the Felton vs. Dragic decision of a few years ago, he doesn't seem to be involved in player acquisition anymore either.

We're seeing a collective failure across the board--and I'm in the minority saying that Sarver is not the end all and be all of this calamity. He contributes, certainly as a hands-on owner, but a lot of this HAS to be put on Jeff Hornacek and Ryan McDonough, who I've always liked until now.

Not to mention the veteran players who just aren't getting it done. There's no one person to blame here. Unfortunately, Sarver said what he said -- even though I think it's true to an extent, he probably shouldn't have talked about it, even if the question was asked he could have come up with a more diplomatic answer. We still would have been angry with whatever that answer would be, but at least if it was a canned answer, then we would forget it within a few minutes.

 

[sunsfan88]

Who is the one that hired McD? It's Sarver's job to hire the right people for the job and yet since Kerr left, Suns have gone through Blanks and now McD.

So even if you think McD isn't doing a good job, yes that's on Sarver too.

Not sure what role Babby still plays but he hasn't been much of a help either.

 

[Chaplin]

Who is the one that hired McD? It's Sarver's job to hire the right people for the job and yet since Kerr left, Suns have gone through Blanks and now McD.

So even if you think McD isn't doing a good job, yes that's on Sarver too.

Not sure what role Babby still plays but he hasn't been much of a help either.

Except McD WAS doing a decent job for a little while. And we were all happy with Hornacek's hire as well. Especially following the Porter and Blanks debacle.

If you want to blame Sarver for everything, go right ahead. But it's simplistic and not even close to the whole story.

 

[Covert Rain]

Except McD WAS doing a decent job for a little while. And we were all happy with Hornacek's hire as well. Especially following the Porter and Blanks debacle.

If you want to blame Sarver for everything, go right ahead. But it's simplistic and not even close to the whole story.

I look at it like this. The buck stops with Sarver. Sorry but that is the truth. The guy has had more than ten years as the owner of the team. He has brought us no closer to a title and his track record is not even close to Jerry's.

Isn't that enough time to evaluate an owner? I think he has had ample time. If you look at the "state of team" ask yourself this:

Are we closer to a title?
What did he do in his first 10 compared to previous owner?
Is the reputation of team better with owners verses the previous ownership?
Is the reputation of the team better with players verses the previous ownership?
Have his personnel decisions (not players he inherited) panned out?
Has he been able to attract franchise players?
Has he been able to pull of trades for franchise players?
Has his coaching decisions panned out?
Has his other Front Office hires panned out?

You might be right that it's more complex than suggested but it's more simple than what your saying too when it comes to evaluating an owner that has had the job for 10+ years.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I look at it like this. The buck stops with Sarver. Sorry but that is the truth. The guy has had more than ten years as the owner of the team. He has brought us no closer to a title and his track record is not even close to Jerry's.

Isn't that enough time to evaluate an owner? I think he has had ample time. If you look at the "state of team" ask yourself this:

Are we closer to a title?
What did he do in his first 10 compared to previous owner?
Is the reputation of team better with owners verses the previous ownership?
Is the reputation of the team better with players verses the previous ownership?
Have is his personnel decisions (not players he inherited) panned out?
Has he been able to attract franchise players?
Has he been able to pull of trades for franchise players?
Has his coaching decisions panned out?
Has his other Front Office hires panned out?

You might be right that it's more complex than suggested but it's more simple than what your saying too when it comes to evaluating an owner that has had the job for 10+ years.

Exactly. I'm not saying he's not trying - he's trying really hard. The problem is, the product he's put on the court has not only been bad, it's boring, and with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Even worse, he's taken a franchise with a sparkling reputation throughout the league and top ownership, and turned the Suns into one of the worst ownership situations in the NBA.

The idea of Sarver continuing to own the Suns moving forward is pretty depressing.

 

[sunsfan88]

Except McD WAS doing a decent job for a little while. And we were all happy with Hornacek's hire as well. Especially following the Porter and Blanks debacle.

If you want to blame Sarver for everything, go right ahead. But it's simplistic and not even close to the whole story.

I was fine with the McD hire but I didn't particularly like the Hornacek hire and preferred Budenholzer or even Kerr, aka coaches that have their teams rely on that thing called ball movement.

That said, Sarver's job is to make sure that he hires the right people who will produce not the people who will please the fans. Us fans aren't paid to make these decisions, we make our opinions based off the little that we see. He should make his decisions based on guys who he think will produce.

I'm not blaming him for everything but I find it weird if your gonna blame someone and not blame the person who gave him that job in the first place that's all.

 

[Covert Rain]

Exactly. I'm not saying he's not trying - he's trying really hard. The problem is, the product he's put on the court has not only been bad, it's boring, and with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Even worse, he's taken a franchise with a sparkling reputation throughout the league and top ownership, and turned the Suns into one of the worst ownership situations in the NBA.

The idea of Sarver continuing to own the Suns moving forward is pretty depressing.

Agreed. I freaking love this team. I want nothing more than a title to hang in those rafters. However, Sarver has been a TERRIBLE owner. How anybody can ignore what has happened since he took over the team is beyond me.

I am not going to get all dramatic and say he is the worst owner to ever grace the earth or say that there isn't worse owners out there. There is.
However, someone can try and give something all they have and still stuck at it. That's how I see Sarver.

 

[Chaplin]

I look at it like this. The buck stops with Sarver. Sorry but that is the truth. The guy has had more than ten years as the owner of the team. He has brought us no closer to a title and his track record is not even close to Jerry's.

Isn't that enough time to evaluate an owner? I think he has had ample time. If you look at the "state of team" ask yourself this:

Are we closer to a title?
What did he do in his first 10 compared to previous owner?
Is the reputation of team better with owners verses the previous ownership?
Is the reputation of the team better with players verses the previous ownership?
Have his personnel decisions (not players he inherited) panned out?
Has he been able to attract franchise players?
Has he been able to pull of trades for franchise players?
Has his coaching decisions panned out?
Has his other Front Office hires panned out?

You might be right that it's more complex than suggested but it's more simple than what your saying too when it comes to evaluating an owner that has had the job for 10+ years.

Ask yourself this: If Sarver sells the team and is gone and NOTHING else changes, do you think the team would miraculously get to the playoffs?

I think the answer to that question is a resounding, "NO." You are placing all the blame on Sarver when he really is sharing it.

 

[BC867]

Ask yourself this: If Sarver sells the team and is gone and NOTHING else changes, do you think the team would miraculously get to the playoffs?

I think the answer to that question is a resounding, "NO." You are placing all the blame on Sarver when he really is sharing it.

It looks like Covert Rain's post was strictly about Sarver, reacting to previous posts absolving him of the responsibility/blame.

Of course if Sarver sells the team, other things would change. When has a new owner ever kept the status quo? Especially when a proud franchise has become an object of ridicule.

Sarver, an inexperienced owner when he took over, has insulted every player on the Suns and in the NBA by stereotyping Millennials and blaming it on them. And he meets with his neophyte GM and Head Coach to decide nightly rotations.

McDonough, an inexperienced GM, has remained obsessed with unskilled Point Guards covering two positions, no matter how many combinations he tries.

Hornacek, an inexperienced Head Coach, has criticized the GM providing those unskilled Point Guards as an excuse for his Center failing. And constantly tells the Press how the players are not doing what he wants them to do.

They all need to go so the Suns can begin the path (belatedly) to grow into a playoff team, then a true contender. It is not about miracles. It is about a well staffed, well run organization, from the owner to the Front Office to the coaches to the players.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ask yourself this: If Sarver sells the team and is gone and NOTHING else changes, do you think the team would miraculously get to the playoffs?

I think the answer to that question is a resounding, "NO." You are placing all the blame on Sarver when he really is sharing it.

Why would I assume that a new owner would keep the status quo? That is silly. Any new owner would make the changes he wants, put his people into place and do his thing when the previous owner wasn't doing a good job. The notion that nothing would change is a silly one.

An owner is judged by his franchise's track record and success. You simply cannot dispute his performance as an owner regardless if you want to slice and dice who did what while he owned the franchise.

 

[BC867]

And ironically, the 3-ring circus of Sarver/McDonough/Hornacek has degraded the Suns by pointing the fingers of blame.

Sarver and Horny have each blamed the players. Horny has blamed the GM.

As the saying goes, nobody "blames" success. Only failure. It just calls attention to their ineptitude.

I'd like to add that I really feel for Jeff. He is in way over his head. A Suns icon before moving to the Jazz (Philly doesn't count). Perhaps the most likable Phoenix Sun ever. And now, right in the middle of the greatest Suns embarrassment since the drug incident.

Will somebody please relieve Jeff of his misery so he can go back to Utah and be an Assistant once again.

 

[DWKB]

As a non Suns fans, I don't want to rudely butt into your teams issues too much, but I want to pass along this column

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba-new...ls-robert-sarver-markieff-morris-twins-marcus

 

[slinslin]

I dont see how Sarver is the problem right now, or for the last 4 years.

The truth is most if not all NBA teams that have not drafted a franchise caliber player are struggling with very few exceptions usually those who got lucky in the FA process.

It is the Suns organisation problem that for years they are trying to sell the illusion that a team could be rebuilt without drafting gold.

This is the reality of the NBA. The Knicks have sucked for more than a decade despite their FA allure.

Even if Sarver was the best owner of all time the Suns still would be in this situation short of getting Lebron as a FA which they tried.

Look at Utah, very similiar franchise historically and they are rebuilding seemingly for years too.

If the Suns had not struck gold with drafting Amare at #9 we might be rebuilding for 15 years now.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I dont see how Sarver is the problem right now, or for the last 4 years.

The truth is most if not all NBA teams that have not drafted a franchise caliber player are struggling with very few exceptions usually those who got lucky in the FA process.

It is the Suns organisation problem that for years they are trying to sell the illusion that a team could be rebuilt without drafting gold.

This is the reality of the NBA. The Knicks have sucked for more than a decade despite their FA allure.

Even if Sarver was the best owner of all time the Suns still would be in this situation short of getting Lebron as a FA which they tried.

Look at Utah, very similiar franchise historically and they are rebuilding seemingly for years too.

If the Suns had not struck gold with drafting Amare at #9 we might be rebuilding for 15 years now.

And if the Spurs had not struck gold by drafting Tim Duncan, they would too. And if Dallas had not struck gold by drafting Dirk. . .

But they did, so they didn't. The Suns did not accidentally draft Amare. They manipulated that whole draft process so they could get him. They knew exactly what they were getting from the moment they worked him out.

 

[slinslin]

And if the Spurs had not struck gold by drafting Tim Duncan, they would too. And if Dallas had not struck gold by drafting Dirk. . .

But they did, so they didn't. The Suns did not accidentally draft Amare. They manipulated that whole draft process so they could get him. They knew exactly what they were getting from the moment they worked him out.

Even if true where was that transcendend talent that the Suns passed up based on their draft position?

Kawhi Leonard is the only one that comes to mind but I am not even sure he would be the player that turns a bad team around. EVen when you draft Anthony Davis you still need to get that second top tier guy.

The big problem is the Suns foolish arrogance to think that they don't need to bottom out to rebuild. Even other big storied franchises do that, Lakers, Sixers and unwillingly the Knicks. The Lakers tanked just to keep their pick.

Too many Suns fans are spoilt and think success comes easy because in the past the Suns got lucky quickly to recover from bad stretches -> Kevin Johnson, Amare Stoudemire you can't plan for that to always happen.

 

[Covert Rain]

Even if true where was that transcendend talent that the Suns passed up based on their draft position?

Kawhi Leonard is the only one that comes to mind but I am not even sure he would be the player that turns a bad team around. EVen when you draft Anthony Davis you still need to get that second top tier guy.

Too many Suns fans are spoilt and think success comes easy because in the past the Suns got lucky quickly to recover from bad stretches -> Kevin Johnson, Amare Stoudemire you can't plan for that to always happen.

You are only addressing one aspect of already 10+ year career as owner of the Suns. See my questions I posted earlier. Sarver 100% has been part of the problem but nobody is saying he is personally responsible for every little thing. However, he is the owner. He put the FO together, he helped build the reputation this team has now. He has not been able to land franchise changing free agents or pull of those level of trades with people he has hired in this organization. Plus it's well documented that some of this early antics as owner hurt the teams reputation. Your example of not letting the team bottom is another example.

Sorry, but no successful company gets to where they are without a leader with some vision and influence that molds the shape and direction of their business. Sarver doesn't get a pass. Ask yourself another question. With the revolving door of players, coaches and FO...who has been the constant?

 

[hcsilla]

The big problem is the Suns foolish arrogance to think that they don't need to bottom out to rebuild.

I agree.

The Suns were trying to do something that only very few NBA teams ever have done: rebuilding without a top 5-10 pick (the modern Spurs around Leonard and Aldridge is the only one that comes to my mind as an exception) and without using a top pick.

 

[Covert Rain]

The big problem is the Suns foolish arrogance to think that they don't need to bottom out to rebuild. Even other big storied franchises do that, Lakers, Sixers and unwillingly the Knicks. The Lakers tanked just to keep their pick.
.

I am not so sure arrogance has anything at all to do with the team not allowing itself to bottom out. I think the primary influence their is money and business. How many times have we heard the ownership or someone in the front office talk about making the team "fun" again. That's code speak for scoring lots of points and putting up wins. That in turn sells tickets, improves ratings and brings in more sponsors. The problem is these fun teams they field don't spell championship. It's hardly coincidence that this is one of the most winning franchises in all of sports still without a title. It's the mentality of acceptance around here about just wanting the team to be fun again.

 

[BC867]

As a non Suns fans, I don't want to rudely butt into your teams issues too much, but I want to pass along this column

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba-new...ls-robert-sarver-markieff-morris-twins-marcus

I am a Suns fan. But I agree with this article.

Sarver is not only lacking motivational skills -- with players, fans and the league -- but he he is downright stupid. Insulting the base for the revenue that he, as an owner, needs.

If Sterling, who was senile, got an "F" for his approach, Sarver gets a D-minus for his.

Suns fans and Arizona deserve better.

 

[sunsfan88]

Sarver has been an idiot for a very long time. I mean this is what he said when someone asked him about tanking and blowing it up to rebuild and become good again

Prior to the season, most pundits branded the Suns as prime candidates to “tank” — intentionally selling off their best talent in order to position themselves for a high draft pick. Sarver, president of basketball operations Lon Babby and general manager Ryan McDonough bucked against that philosophy, though.

The Suns explored the idea of tanking by studying past teams in similar situations to theirs who chose that route for their rebuild, as the owner described to the show.

“We went back and did a study (of) the last 24 years of all teams who went through what we call the tanking process — defined as really trying to get bad — and the average team took seven to eight years to get back into the playoffs,” he said. “So we didn’t really think that was a good option.

“There’s no guarantees you’re going to win the lottery. There’s no guarantees you’re going to draft the right people. You may end up with a bunch of young players but you still may not be good.”

So Sarver didn't tank was because "it can take 7 to 8 years to get back in the playoffs".....meanwhile, the Suns will now be in its 6th year of not being in the playoffs following Sarver's brilliant alternate plan.

If that doesn't show you that this guy is one of the most incompetent owners in sports history, then I don't know what will.

 

[leclerc]

Ok so he don't get young people of today. They're only going to get younger. There are what 28 teams better than us and they have young players too. He should take a look in the mirror and just sell the team. No shame in that.