Robert Sarver is in Big Trouble (ANNOUNCES SALE PROCESS)

[Fumats20]

Eh, maybe. It could be nothing more than a PR thing. They might not want to renew anyway, or they want to renegotiate a deal.

I think you are on to something.

 

[Covert Rain]

Curious what you think they should have done. They certainly have a much larger financial stake in the NBA than Paypal does. I'm not sure denigrating the NBA makes good financial sense for them. Rightly or wrongly.

More important are going to be companies like Paypal that the Suns have a vested interest in keeping a good relationship with. Local businesses and sponsors like Paypal that are specific to the Suns, those are the the more important ones.

They do? You know for a fact PayPal doesn't have multiple deals throughout the NBA? They are not a local business by any means ("Local businesses and sponsors like Paypal"). They are bigger than KIA. I think you have it backwards. Kia is a 56 billion-dollar company. PayPal is a 112 billion dollar company and has a much larger financial stake. Not sure you realized that.

Also, I don't get the take that ending your partnership with a team is denigrating the NBA. Partnerships end all the time in the NBA for various reasons (including disputes). I don't think the league views it that way.

Here is my take. I think the NBA and Silver planned this. I think this is starting to play out how the league wanted. They can avoid a lawsuit and let this play out with fans and sponsors to do their job for them. I was listening to the national guys, and they said the NBA investigates complaints all the time and it's rare for them to make an investigative report public. This is playing out exactly how the league wanted IMO.

 

[jbjarko]

Ummm Kia is not a 1 Billion dollar company.

 

[1tinsoldier]

I don't think Sarver is going anywhere.

i've been spot on the past 5 years on all the biggest issues
i said from the beginning that the other owners will pressure him out
and so it shall be

Paypal did not take a "principled stand"
they are money sucking pigs
always, always, follow the money
they analyzed that this is the smart play

and i told you the other owners know what the smart play is too
for their investment
i don't care what bs they put out in a statement
they're ready to move on Sarver
the first sword is in Ceasar's back
more will follow
yes, indeed my friends and fellow countrymen
more will follow

 

[1tinsoldier]

get on board Booker...

 

[Covert Rain]

Ummm Kia is not a 1 Billion dollar company.

I was looking at the division. Overall you are right 56 billion. Fixed above. They have
Revenue - $61B
Assets - $56.2B
Profits - $4.2B

 

[Chaplin]

They do? You know for a fact PayPal doesn't have multiple deals throughout the NBA? They are not a local business by any means ("Local businesses and sponsors like Paypal"). They have over 100 times the value of KIA. I think you have it backwards. Kia is a billion-dollar company. PayPal is a 112 billion dollar company and has a much larger financial stake. Not sure you realized that.

Also, I don't get the take that ending your partnership with a team is denigrating the NBA. Partnerships end all the time in the NBA for various reasons (including disputes). I don't think the league views it that way.

Here is my take. I think the NBA and Silver planned this. I think this is starting to play out how the league wanted. They can avoid a lawsuit and let this play out with fans and sponsors to do their job for them. I was listening to the national guys, and they said the NBA investigates complaints all the time and it's rare for them to make an investigative report public. This is playing out exactly how the league wanted IMO.

The Suns are the only team with the Paypal logo on their jersey, no? This sponsorship deal with the Suns is a drop in the bucket, it shows at least a little integrity, but there is no real danger to Paypal's bottom line if they don't renew.

Kia wouldn't be ending any deal with the Suns, they'd be affecting their overall deal with the entire league. They are the Official Automotive Partner of the NBA. You don't just drop that relationship. There are contracts and other things to take into consideration.

You're even supporting my premise, if Kia is such a lesser company (they made 61 billion in 2021), their deal with the NBA as a whole (not the Suns, mind you) makes it that much more important financially to them. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that in a world where fans are trying to blame everyone for everything, it's not that clear cut.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns are the only team with the Paypal logo on their jersey, no? This sponsorship deal with the Suns is a drop in the bucket, it shows at least a little integrity, but there is no real danger to Paypal's bottom line if they don't renew.

Kia wouldn't be ending any deal with the Suns, they'd be affecting their overall deal with the entire league. They are the Official Automotive Partner of the NBA. You don't just drop that relationship. There are contracts and other things to take into consideration.

You're even supporting my premise, if Kia is such a lesser company (they made 61 billion in 2021), their deal with the NBA as a whole (not the Suns, mind you) makes it that much more important financially to them. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that in a world where fans are trying to blame everyone for everything, it's not that clear cut.

PayPal also is also one of the official payment methods for NBA League pass. I bet you that generates more revenue than a car dealership. That would seem to be supported by revenue numbers and I doubt PayPal wants to lose that deal either. Which IMO they are in no danger of doing. Just like KIA is in no danger of losing their league wide deal. I seriously doubt the league wide deals are tied to the local ones with local teams anyway. Even if they were? Like I said the NBA IMO doesn't care. This is playing out how they want and there is no way the NBA is going to sever a league wide sponsorship deal over Sarver and the Suns.

 

[Chaplin]

PayPal also is also one of the official payment methods for NBA League pass. I bet you that generates more revenue than a car dealership. That would seem to be supported by revenue numbers and I doubt PayPal wants to lose that deal either. Which IMO they are in no danger of doing. Just like KIA is in no danger of losing their league wide deal. I seriously doubt the league wide deals are tied to the local ones with local teams anyway. Even if they were? Like I said the NBA IMO doesn't care. This is playing out how they want and there is no way the NBA is going to sever a league wide sponsorship deal over Sarver and the Suns.

Kia is far from a "car dealership". You are assuming there is some sort of local deal between Kia and the Suns, and I'd be curious to know why you assume that.

Paypal has been used as a payment method far longer than it has been a team sponsor. The contracts may be linked, but they are assuredly separate deals.

What's your argument here? That Kia doesn't give a crap about what Sarver did? Why? Because you want every company to sever it's relationship with the NBA? The world doesn't work like that and I know you know that.

 

[Covert Rain]

Kia is far from a "car dealership". You are assuming there is some sort of local deal between Kia and the Suns, and I'd be curious to know why you assume that.

Paypal has been used as a payment method far longer than it has been a team sponsor. The contracts may be linked, but they are assuredly separate deals.

What's your argument here? That Kia doesn't give a crap about what Sarver did? Why? Because you want every company to sever it's relationship with the NBA? The world doesn't work like that and I know you know that.

My point is clear. KIA whiffed and took the easy way out. You keep conflating deals with the Suns and the entire NBA. Clearly, I have been talking about deals with the Suns and I think you know that. There is no way league wide deals are going to be broken over Sarver and the Suns.

 

[Town Drunk]

Washington Post article on Pay Pal and the pressure mounting for Sarver to sell the team.

Got my haircut this morning and the barbershop had ESPN on. Only topic was Sarver and the Pay Pal announcement. All the commentary was about how this is likely only the beginning and that the NBA whiffed on forcing him out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/09/16/robert-sarver-pressure-sell-suns/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1UenG4fqTXGSfAc0R2hpXRRkpPiTtoK5mjZW3gYPCH_c82olbJDen8uxc

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Kia - if you're going to say nothing, sometimes it's better to actually say nothing

 

[Covert Rain]

Kia is far from a "car dealership". You are assuming there is some sort of local deal between Kia and the Suns, and I'd be curious to know why you assume that.

Paypal has been used as a payment method far longer than it has been a team sponsor. The contracts may be linked, but they are assuredly separate deals.

What's your argument here? That Kia doesn't give a crap about what Sarver did? Why? Because you want every company to sever it's relationship with the NBA? The world doesn't work like that and I know you know that.

Also, it appears KIA has both local and league relationships. They have local partnership deals with 13 NBA teams including the Suns. Kia carries 13 partnerships across NBA teams including the Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Hornets, Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Clippers, Miami Heat, New Orleans Pelicans, New York Knicks, Orlando Magic, Philadelphia 76ers and the Phoenix Suns.

It appears their local partnerships are separate from the leaguewide one.

Kia expands partnership with NBA, WNBA and G League | NBA.com

Kia will serve as the awarding sponsor for the All-NBA, All-Defensive and All-Rookie Teams as well as for all WNBA and G League end-of-season awards

www.nba.com

 

[Chaplin]

My point is clear. KIA whiffed and took the easy way out. You keep conflating deals with the Suns and the entire NBA. Clearly, I have been talking about deals with the Suns and I think you know that. There is no way league wide deals are going to be broken over Sarver and the Suns.

Yes, what I'm saying is that there is no deal specifically with Kia and the Suns only. I'm not sure why you aren't getting that.

 

[Covert Rain]

Yes, what I'm saying is that there is no deal specifically with Kia and the Suns only. I'm not sure why you aren't getting that.

There is. I don't know why you keep saying there isn't. I linked it above.

 

[Chaplin]

Also, it appears KIA has both local and league relationships. They have local partnership deals with 13 NBA teams including the Suns. Kia carries 13 partnerships across NBA teams including the Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Hornets, Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Clippers, Miami Heat, New Orleans Pelicans, New York Knicks, Orlando Magic, Philadelphia 76ers and the Phoenix Suns.

It appears their local partnerships are separate from the leaguewide one.

Kia expands partnership with NBA, WNBA and G League | NBA.com

Kia will serve as the awarding sponsor for the All-NBA, All-Defensive and All-Rookie Teams as well as for all WNBA and G League end-of-season awards

www.nba.com

Ok I will concede you research there. However, their tweet was to support the NBA. Perhaps they are weighing whether to make a separate decision re: the Suns.

Again, you are looking to blame everyone for any slight and it's not that simple.

And believe you me, that tweet wasn't intended for anyone but NBA leadership.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ok I will concede you research there. However, their tweet was to support the NBA. Perhaps they are weighing whether to make a separate decision re: the Suns.

Again, you are looking to blame everyone for any slight and it's not that simple.

So, KIA supports the league and but PayPal doesn't? What?!?!? A company asserting their rights to evaluate their local partnership and a leaguewide one are not tied together. I am not the one trying to oversimplify that. I am saying that KIA took the easy way out like most of the minority owners. They could have taken a more principled stand based on their local relationship. That's all.

 

[Chaplin]

F

So, KIA supports the league and but PayPal doesn't? What?!?!? A company asserting their rights to evaluate their local partnership and a leaguewide one are not tied together. I am not the one trying to oversimplify that. I am saying that KIA took the easy way out like most of the minority owners. That's blaming KIA?!

Forget it, you're either looking for a fight or just not understanding. Have a good night.

 

[Bufalay]

i've been spot on the past 5 years on all the biggest issues
i said from the beginning that the other owners will pressure him out
and so it shall be

Paypal did not take a "principled stand"
they are money sucking pigs
always, always, follow the money
they analyzed that this is the smart play

and i told you the other owners know what the smart play is too
for their investment
i don't care what bs they put out in a statement
they're ready to move on Sarver
the first sword is in Ceasar's back
more will follow
yes, indeed my friends and fellow countrymen
more will follow

Unless the players refuse to play I don't think there is any incentive for Sarver to sell. He can just lay low for a year and the attention will eventually die down.

 

[Covert Rain]

Forget it, you're either looking for a fight or just not understanding. Have a good night.

Chap, can't both be true? Can't you support the league and still take a principled stand with local partners? IMO you can. So, when you ask what should they have done? That's my answer. You don't seem to understand the point or are just getting defensive.

 

[Covert Rain]

Unless the players refuse to play I don't think there is any incentive for Sarver to sell. He can just lay low for a year and the attention will eventually die down.

You have to impact the pocketbook of the ownership group, or they won't care.

 

[Chaplin]

Chap, can't both be true? Can't you support the league and still take a principled stand with local partners? IMO you can. So, when you ask what should they have done? That's my answer. You don't seem to understand the point or are just getting defensive.

Sure you can, but all I saw was a single tweet in support of the NBA. I suppose you can read more into it if you choose, but I choose not to. I care that the Paypal domino leads to more local businesses showing their displeasure, but most of all I want the board to do something because that's the only way this takes a different turn from the path they are on now.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sure you can, but all I saw was a single tweet in support of the NBA. I suppose you can read more into it if you choose, but I choose not to. I care that the Paypal domino leads to more local businesses showing their displeasure, but most of all I want the board to do something because that's the only way this takes a different turn from the path they are on now.

Well, that was KIA's response. If they were going to do something else they wouldn't have released that statement. That doesn't mean they don't have the opportunity to revise their view. If they do great. I am taking their current statement at face value. That's not reading into anything. The rest I agree with.

 

[Bufalay]

You have to impact the pocketbook of the ownership group, or they won't care.

I just don't think there are enough people who care. They're still gonna sell tickets and have sponsors. I'm happy to expand on why I think this, but my cynicism is probably more appropriate for P&R.

 

[Covert Rain]

I just don't think there are enough people who care. They're still gonna sell tickets and have sponsors. I'm happy to expand on why I think this, but my cynicism is probably more appropriate for P&R.

I think most of us are skeptical anything comes of this. I think many people are hoping it does.