Rod Graves playing the game.

[Cardiac]

Dennis Green had one amazing draft (in a loaded draft class, FWIW), but then had a bunch of very solid FA offseasons that built a veteran roster that Whis took to the playoffs twice and once to the Super Bowl. Once the roster tilted from Green's players to Whis's, we found ourselves in the situation at present.

Again, Green's drafts:
2006 1 1 10 10 Matt Leinart QB USC
2 2 9 41 Taitusi (Deuce) Lutui G USC
3 3 8 72 Leonard Pope TE Georgia
4 4 10 107 Gabriel Watson DT Michigan
5 5 9 142 Brandon Johnson LB Louisville
6 6 8 177 Jon Lewis DT Virginia Tech
7 7 10 218 Todd Watkins WR Brigham Young
2005 1 1 8 8 Antrel Rolle DB Miami (FL)
2 2 12 44 J.J. Arrington RB California
3 3 11 75 Eric Green DB Virginia Tech
4 3 31 95 Darryl Blackstock LB Virginia
5 4 10 111 Elton Brown G Virginia
6 5 32 168 Lance Mitchell LB Oklahoma
7 7 12 226 LeRon McCoy WR Indiana (PA)
2004 1 1 3 3 Larry Fitzgerald WR Pittsburgh
2 2 1 33 Karlos Dansby LB Auburn
3 3 1 64 Darnell Dockett DE Florida State
4 4 4 100 Alex Stepanovich C Ohio State
5 5 3 135 Antonio Smith DE Oklahoma State
6 6 2 167 Nick Leckey C Kansas State
7 7 1 202 John Navarre QB Michigan

And then the Green Free Agents who played or participated in the Super Bowl:

Kurt Warner
Edgerrin James
Terrelle Smith
Chike Okeafor
Neil Rackers
Bertrand Berry
Aaron Francisco

There's no escaping the fact that the players Whis had success with were veterans on the team who were established before he arrived. And a couple of Denny's guys who weren't apparently good enough to play for Whis have stuck around the NFL, like Brandon Johnson and Leonard Pope.

I don't agree with the amazing label since Denny skipped drafting a franchise QB or two to draft Fitz. How about a very very good draft?
The 2005 draft was pitiful. A CB who was really just an okay safety is the only pick worth mentioning.

The 2006 draft, now he wants a QB and busts with ML. Duece is solid but that is basically it from that draft. As far as the FA's Warner is the home run. Chike was solid and Berry would have been great sans the injuries. Everyone else is just a guy. Edge was a shell of his former self and definitely not worth the money we gave him.

I'm not saying that Dennis Green is a better head coach than Ken Whisenhunt. All I'm saying is that since Whisenhunt got control of the personnel side of the operation last year, we've gone 5-11 and we've seen the worst product on the field in recent memory. The question that needs to be answered is whether Whis just had success with a bunch of Denny players who were ready to win, or if Whis is more of a Bob Brenly type who can't work with young teams and needs a veteran group to be successful.

Most of us would agree that if Warner was still on the team we would have won the west last year. Are you saying otherwise?

 

[kerouac9]

Most of us would agree that if Warner was still on the team we would have won the west last year. Are you saying otherwise?

So you're saying that if we'd kept more Denny Green players instead of looking for Whis to develop the players that he'd acquired we'd've won the West last year? Yes, that is what I believe.

I think you're underrating a Pro Bowler in Bertrand Berry (Clearly better than Okeafor and still the 2009 sack leader for the Cards) and Terrelle Smith, who was the best lead blocker the Cards have had in a very long time.

 

[Duckjake]

Most of us would agree that if Warner was still on the team we would have won the west last year. Are you saying otherwise?

I hear what your saying. But this team does not need 1 stud. It needs a whole lot. QB, LT, LG, WR?(Fitz' last yr. uc), TE, DL, SILB, SOLB, CB.

That's 9 spots that need help. Usually with 5 rounds to address those spots with any realistic help. It's not enough.

Well which is it Cards fans? Are the Cards a team that was only a QB away from winning their 3rd straight NFC West Championship or a team with 40% of their positions needing to be addressed this offseason?

New Cardinals? Not if they have mismanaged personnel so badly that they have 9 positions that need help while cutting payroll by multiple millions.

 

[kerouac9]

Well which is it Cards fans? Are the Cards a team that was only a QB away from winning their 3rd straight NFC West Championship or a team with 40% of their positions needing to be addressed this offseason?

New Cardinals? Not if they have mismanaged personnel so badly that they have 9 positions that need help while cutting payroll by multiple millions.

A QB away from winning the 2010 NFC West Division Title. A lot looks better if the QB just plays at a below-average NFL level. This team has talent.

QB, SILB and WOLB are immediate, pressing needs. Everything else is secondary. Fix those three positions with legit NFL players, and this team is back on the road to 8-8 or better. Fix one OL position and the TE, and we're once of the ten best teams in the NFL.

CB is not a position of need on this team. WR is not a position of need on this team. We might need more productivity from those positions (as well as RB), but we don't need more talent there. Everything else is depth.

 

[Duckjake]

A QB away from winning the 2010 NFC West Division Title. A lot looks better if the QB just plays at a below-average NFL level. This team has talent.

QB, SILB and WOLB are immediate, pressing needs. Everything else is secondary. Fix those three positions with legit NFL players, and this team is back on the road to 8-8 or better. Fix one OL position and the TE, and we're once of the ten best teams in the NFL.

CB is not a position of need on this team. WR is not a position of need on this team. We might need more productivity from those positions (as well as RB), but we don't need more talent there. Everything else is depth.

Well that's how I feel.

However, there is one thing that needs to stop. Letting go players in their prime and replacing them with draft picks or 30 something veterans.

The best post this year on ASFN was the one that said the Steelers let go older players and replace them with younger ones while the Cards let go young players and replace them with older ones.

It's a sad commentary on the Cardinals history that people automatically assume that guys like Lutui and Breaston and Alan Branch and any other player whose contract is up is as good as gone.

 

[Buckybird]

CB is not a position of need on this team. WR is not a position of need on this team. We might need more productivity from those positions (as well as RB), but we don't need more talent there. Everything else is depth.

WR could very well be a big need after this season. Something tells me Breaston will go free this year, Doucet cant stay away from the team Dr's & Fitz could walk. K9 this is exactly what gets the Cards in trouble...not planning ahead. Didn't we draft probably the 2nd best WR in the game at #3 when we didn't need one?

With that said if PP7 & Green are on the board & passed at #5, this team will once again prove to me it has no clue. Draft the best player on the board at #5 instead of a combo of need/BPA or a trade down!!!

BTW I still think you & Duck have given the Cards defense more credit than it deserves in other posts than they deserve. IMO they are what they are Ok at best.

 

[Duckjake]

WR could very well be a big need after this season. Something tells me Breaston will go free this year, Doucet cant stay away from the team Dr's & Fitz could walk. K9 this is exactly what gets the Cards in trouble...not planning ahead. Didn't we draft probably the 2nd best WR in the game at #3 when we didn't need one?

With that said if PP7 & Green are on the board & passed at #5, this team will once again prove to me it has no clue. Draft the best player on the board at #5 instead of a combo of need/BPA or a trade down!!!

Should have waited a couple of minutes to post Bucky:

It's a sad commentary on the Cardinals history that people automatically assume that guys like Lutui and Breaston and Alan Branch and any other player whose contract is up is as good as gone.

I firmly believe that the Cards will take AJ Green. The Bidwills love wide receivers. There is no doubt in my mind that an owner's personality affects what his team does in player selection, hiring of coaches, and on the field. In essence the owner gives his team its culture.

Dollar Bill is an easy going frugal guy. And so is his football team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i hate that I have to see Rod Graves' name involved in anything to do with this team still... especially the draft.

 

[Buckybird]

Should have waited a couple of minutes to post Bucky:



I firmly believe that the Cards will take AJ Green. The Bidwills love wide receivers. There is no doubt in my mind that an owner's personality affects what his team does in player selection, hiring of coaches, and on the field. In essence the owner gives his team its culture.

Dollar Bill is an easy going frugal guy. And so is his football team.

It only took his philosphy 40+ years as an owner to pan out & make a SB.

Duck, I really believe thats the way to win nowdays...put lots of points on the board because of the rules. Problem now...finding that QB to get us back to the promised land. IMO you can only be dominant on 1 side of the ball & the rules dictate offense.

 

[Duckjake]

It only took his philosphy 40+ years as an owner to pan out & make a SB.

Duck, I really believe thats the way to win nowdays...put lots of points on the board because of the rules. Problem now...finding that QB to get us back to the promised land. IMO you can only be dominant on 1 side of the ball & the rules dictate offense.

On the other hand the #1 traditionally tough Defensive team, the Steelers, have been in three Super Bowls in the last 6 seasons. The year they beat us they ranked 20th in points scored. Last season they were 12th. So you can do it with Defense.

But considering the Cards have only had one defense that ranked in the top 10 in both points and yards since 1970 I'd say you are right about them focusing on Offense. (The Steelers have managed it 20 times! )

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

i hate that I have to see Rod Graves' name involved in anything to do with this team still... especially the draft.

+1000.

One of the most befuddling thing to me in all of sports is how he keeps his job and ,even worse, receives promotions.
I wouldn't mind him staying on, but move him to another job and let him do his best George Costanza immitation until retirement. But, please bring in a real GM.

 

[bg7brd]

On the other hand the #1 traditionally tough Defensive team, the Steelers, have been in three Super Bowls in the last 6 seasons. The year they beat us they ranked 20th in points scored. Last season they were 12th. So you can do it with Defense.

But considering the Cards have only had one defense that ranked in the top 10 in both points and yards since 1970 I'd say you are right about them focusing on Offense. (The Steelers have managed it 20 times! )

Agree 100%