Rod Graves

[Sandan]

I'm glad I could entertain the crowd

 

[Bobcat]

Why would the Cardinal organiztion let RG go now when they have to negotiate all of the Rookie contracts. I think that this would be a very unwise move to let him go now don't any of you guys feel the same way...???


Bobcat

 

[joeshmo]

Why would the Cardianl organiztion let RG go now when they have to negotiate all of the Rookie contracts. I think that this would be a very unwise move to let him go now don't any of you guys feel the same way...???


Bobcat

I believe John Idzik negotiates all of the rookie contracts except for the first rounder.

 

[Bobcat]

Why let Rod Grave Go at this juncture...???

I believe John Idzik negotiates all of the rookie contracts except for the first rounder.

You are probably right, but why change direction...??? Are we as bad as Houston with their GM situation...???

Bobcat

 

[john h]

I don't know what's funnier, people losing sleep about Rod Graves leaving or the laughable notion that other teams would be interested in the services of a GM whose team's record during his tenure at the position is 15-33.

Is everyone forgetting the one offseason he had the most control of the team and we ended up with Pace and BJ with the sixth overall pick and the worst free agent class in NFL history. Or when he followed that up joke of an offseason by trying to re-sign every garbage player that had led us to those embarrassing years?

If Graves stays as a figure head to talk the old man into spending money as he has done in the past, then I'm okay with him staying in his office. But let;'s not pretend Rod Graves is some personnel genius who would be sorely missed in that aspect of the organization. His and the team's record clearly speaks for itself.

He certainly is no better than the record of the Cards since he has been there.

 

[az jam]

I actually like the triumvirate that is running the Cards: Michael Bidwill, Rod Graves & Denny Green. From a fan's perspective (not an insider), they appear to work well together, make solid decisions and present a positive image to the community. Continuality in managment is a key for successful organizations be it business or sports.

 

[RedStorm]

I did not like the direction of this team when Rod was in full control (or at least as it appeared to me.). Like everyone else, the drafting of Bryant and Pace was one of my worst nightmares.

But, now, I think the team is headed in the right direction. I think Rod has found his nitch and I think he should be kept around for at least one more year if not two. But, if this team does not produce then Mike should clean house.

 

[Sandan]

I think from a GM perspective it takes more than a couple of years to turn a disaster like the Cardinals were around.

 

[Duckjake]

I think from a GM perspective it takes more than a couple of years to turn a disaster like the Cardinals were around.

It's about time people acknowledged that the darksiders were right.

Graves did nothing to help the cause during his 7 years before Green arrived so I've got to give all the credit to .... Mike Bidwill for fixing things so that the new stadium would sell out and public perception of the Cards would change.

Two ways to sell seats and improve your image. Win big games or sign big names.

Mike's done the latter now the players have to do the former.

 

[Sandan]

Graves was not the GM for 6 of those 7 years

 

[JC_AZ]

RG will be bumped up next year, DG will retire from coaching to become the GM and we will hire Clancy to become our new HC under DG tutelage...Clancy is headed somewhere soon otherwise, so I say promote from within and maintain some continuity...

 

[Hardy Brown]

Nidan,

Thanks for the lesson. I aplogize if I hit a hornet's nest. That was not my intention...

 

[Sandan]

no problemo, it happens.

 

[JeffGollin]

I have no insider's view of RG and wouldn't pretend to guess that I understood how the inner workings of the Cardinal management operates.

But I do have an outsider's view of what's happened during Rod's period of employment.

For what it's worth, it seemed to me that in the pre-Dennis (Tobin/Mac) years, things tended to skew toward "getting along to go along" with more emphasis on what would look "appropriate" than on "what needed to be done." Some of this, I believe was a backlash against the adventuresome and undisciplined Buddy Ryan regime. The franchise needed structure and discipline.

The first year, Rod was given the keys to the Rolls Royce, it seemed as though he entered the draft wanting to show the outside world "how it should be done." Out of this came the ill-fated "pass on Suggs to draft Johnson and Pace" move. Granted, more time is needed to properly assess the impact of that move (and picking up Q in the second round shouldn't be sneezed at), but it didn't appear to represent one of Rod's finest hours.

But things are never static. They change over time. Rod was a fairly young and inexperienced VP Player Personnel guy with a lot to learn; and it is to his credit that he then (a) played an active role in bringing Dennis Green to the organizatiion and (b) had the brains and ego-flexibility to benefit from DG's skill and experience.

Again - from an outsider's vantage point - the sense I get is that the Triumverate (MB, DG and RG) have forged an effective and collegial working relationship where personal credit takes a back seat to results.

Who's been responsible for turning the franchise around? Was it DG? MB? Rod? I believe it's been all three. Furthermore, if you subtracted any of the three from the equation, the franchise wouldn't be as far along as it seems to be.

 

[Duckjake]

Graves was not the GM for 6 of those 7 years

Graves has never been GM of the Cardinals. He is Vice President-Football Operations.

But he was a part of the "disaster" as you call it.

Rod was a fairly young and inexperienced VP Player Personnel guy with a lot to learn;

Nothing personal again but Graves came to the Cardinals after 13 years in various personnel capacities with the Chicago Bears. In 1994 he was promoted to director of player personnel. The Johnson/Pace draft came 10 years later. 20 years in the business doesn't exactly constitute young and inexperienced in my book.

 

[Hardy Brown]

Graves has never been GM of the Cardinals. He is Vice President-Football Operations.

And "garbage-men" are "waste-management-officers." Whatever you call Rod Graves is inconsequential; he is the GM. Afterall, Michael Bidwill is called Vice-President and General Counsel, not President/Owner.

But he was a part of the "disaster" as you call it.

That was a mistake, if we can call the Anquan Boldin draft such a thing, but nobody is perfect. People make bad decisions in life. Why doesn't he get a little grace, here? Teams have good drafts and bad drafts but you don't see people trying to run them out of town based on one-draft.

In addition, you fail to recognize his hand in building a consensus within the Cardinals front-office. There are a lot of personalities to deal with and "toes" to be avoided, if you know what I mean.

Nothing personal again but Graves came to the Cardinals after 13 years in various personnel capacities with the Chicago Bears. In 1994 he was promoted to director of player personnel. The Johnson/Pace draft came 10 years later. 20 years in the business doesn't exactly constitute young and inexperienced in my book.

Trading out of that draft in order to get two first-rounders was not necessarily a bad move for a team devoid of talent and I'm not ready to call either Bryant Johnson or Calvin Pace a "bust" just yet.

In my opinion, Johnson made real strides last year and might be the key that opens the Cardinals potent three-wide personnel package. If you're a Cardinals fan, hope this happens. He has the ability to run by folks, opening up the middle of the field for Boldin and Fitzgerald.

Clancy Pendergast is tinkering with a hybrid three-four defense. Calvin Pace is one of the reasons why. Before he "fell" through glass, he was maybe the most improved player on the team.

 

[Duckjake]

That was a mistake, if we can call the Anquan Boldin draft such a thing, but nobody is perfect. People make bad decisions in life. Why doesn't he get a little grace, here? Teams have good drafts and bad drafts but you don't see people trying to run them out of town based on one-draft.

Well you do, but not in Arizona, not yet anyway.

After all we're talking about an organization that took a defensive coordinator whose defenses continually ranked in the bottom 10 of the NFL and made him head coach.

Graves was in upper level personnel management during the famine of '99-2003. As such he has to take blame for the "disaster" just like McGinnis and Tobin and the Bidwills.

If somebody can prove that he tried to make things better and was overruled then I'll give him a lot more of the credit I'm giving to Michael Bidwill and Dennis Green.