Rodney Hudson - returns after holding out?

[kerouac9]

I'd just love to know how you spend so much money for such minimal results. For a former offensive lineman, Keim doesn't know the first thing about drafting or developing them.

It's because you don't have enough guys on their first or early in their second contracts. That's cheap talent.

 

[Chopper0080]

It's because you don't have enough guys on their first or early in their second contracts. That's cheap talent.

This. Letting Humphries play the year on a 19 mil cap hit. Hudson and Pugh combining for over 20 mil. Justin Murray making more than both Beachum and Will Hernandez.

Another fun fact...Keim already has over 10 mil in dead money on the books for next year with Watt, Kennard and AJ Green's contracts.

 

[Chopper0080]

What we should (and I stress should) see offensively with the stability of the scheme is an easier path to drafting and developing talent. 4 years in a GM and scouting dept should be able to get players who fit the scheme.

 

[Chopper0080]

More trigger warnings.

Cardinals are 9th in ILB spending and 31st in EDGE spending.

Also a surprising 11th in IDL spending.

 

[kerouac9]

More trigger warnings.

Cardinals are 9th in ILB spending and 31st in EDGE spending.

Also a surprising 11th in IDL spending.

9th in ILB spending is hilarious with two rookies allegedly manning the starting roles.

31st in edge will be good if the rookies work out at all.

 

[Syracusecards]

More trigger warnings.

Cardinals are 9th in ILB spending and 31st in EDGE spending.

Also a surprising 11th in IDL spending.

Damn! Chopper is bringing it today!

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I do think this is an underrated aspect to Kyler. It does appear that he panics very quickly and makes very poor decisions to avoid being hit. It seems to me that he would benefit more from having a better line than say Russ who is great at avoiding in the pocket or Allen who is comfortable taking a shot.

Kyler Kolb

 

[FB94]

Kyler Kolb

Funny but ouch

 

[BritCard]

and we have a bottom 16 NFL line. Talk about poor utilization of resources.

In your opinion...

PFF ranked the O line 15th last year. Top 10 in pass pro, poor at run blocking.

Olinestats has us 19th overall but again one of the best pass pro lines, bad at run blocking.

ESPN ranked the Cards 12th at pass blocking. 19th in run blocking.

I can't see Football outsiders DVOA rankings for last year, maybe @kerouac9 can help there, but I can see that in their pre season rankings for 2022 they graded them a C, borderline C+. In their tier system that puts them 15th as they were the only team in C they said was borderline C+. Their comments were "No real weaknesses. No superstars. Bunch of solid guys".

On top of what we had last year, which was a top 10 pass blocking line, we get Justin Murray back, added Hernandez, drafted 2 promising rookie Guards and got a year more development in Josh Jones. And all we lost was Garcia.

I don't see how this line is worse. Obviously much depends on Hudson, but I expect him to be at camp.

 

[BritCard]

9th in ILB spending is hilarious with two rookies allegedly manning the starting roles.

31st in edge will be good if the rookies work out at all.

ALL the money is those rookies. Both first round contracts. The most anyone else is getting is Nick Vigil at $1.77m.

At this time of year these numbers are a crock anyway. Obviously depends how many ILB you have in your 90. Some teams might only have 6, others might have 10.

 

[Stout]

In your opinion...

PFF ranked the O line 15th last year. Top 10 in pass pro, poor at run blocking.

Olinestats has us 19th overall but again one of the best pass pro lines, bad at run blocking.

ESPN ranked the Cards 12th at pass blocking. 19th in run blocking.

I can't see Football outsiders DVOA rankings for last year, maybe @kerouac9 can help there, but I can see that in their pre season rankings for 2022 they graded them a C, borderline C+. In their tier system that puts them 15th as they were the only team in C they said was borderline C+. Their comments were "No real weaknesses. No superstars. Bunch of solid guys".

On top of what we had last year, which was a top 10 pass blocking line, we get Justin Murray back, added Hernandez, drafted 2 promising rookie Guards and got a year more development in Josh Jones. And all we lost was Garcia.

I don't see how this line is worse. Obviously much depends on Hudson, but I expect him to be at camp.

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[kerouac9]

In your opinion...

PFF ranked the O line 15th last year. Top 10 in pass pro, poor at run blocking.

Olinestats has us 19th overall but again one of the best pass pro lines, bad at run blocking.

ESPN ranked the Cards 12th at pass blocking. 19th in run blocking.

I can't see Football outsiders DVOA rankings for last year, maybe @kerouac9 can help there, but I can see that in their pre season rankings for 2022 they graded them a C, borderline C+. In their tier system that puts them 15th as they were the only team in C they said was borderline C+. Their comments were "No real weaknesses. No superstars. Bunch of solid guys".

On top of what we had last year, which was a top 10 pass blocking line, we get Justin Murray back, added Hernandez, drafted 2 promising rookie Guards and got a year more development in Josh Jones. And all we lost was Garcia.

I don't see how this line is worse. Obviously much depends on Hudson, but I expect him to be at camp.

According to FO, the line was 26th in adjusted line yards (their broad-spectrum metric for run blocking) and 15th in adjusted sack rate.

Hard to look at the results over the second half of last year and say we’re Actually Good. Especially if Hudson doesn’t come back. He’s a big factor in those pass protection grades, IMO.

 

[Krangodnzr]

According to FO, the line was 26th in adjusted line yards (their broad-spectrum metric for run blocking) and 15th in adjusted sack rate.

Hard to look at the results over the second half of last year and say we’re Actually Good. Especially if Hudson doesn’t come back. He’s a big factor in those pass protection grades, IMO.

And if you want to gander at PFF rankings, they said Hudson was the best pass blocking center last year iirc.

You know how during some offseason, you'll see one particular thing happen that makes you say, "oh crap, this single player loss could lead to multiple losses during the season...". This that loss. There is no great replacement right now.

Billy Price is a meh player, but I'd trust him more than Pugh and some hope. Keim should sign the guy.

 

[BritCard]

And if you want to gander at PFF rankings, they said Hudson was the best pass blocking center last year iirc.

You know how during some offseason, you'll see one particular thing happen that makes you say, "oh crap, this single player loss could lead to multiple losses during the season...". This that loss. There is no great replacement right now.

Billy Price is a meh player, but I'd trust him more than Pugh and some hope. Keim should sign the guy.

JC Tretter is legit great. I don't care if his knees aren't great, he played every game last year at a high level.

 

[BritCard]

According to FO, the line was 26th in adjusted line yards (their broad-spectrum metric for run blocking) and 15th in adjusted sack rate.

Hard to look at the results over the second half of last year and say we’re Actually Good. Especially if Hudson doesn’t come back. He’s a big factor in those pass protection grades, IMO.

I don't think anyone has said we're "actually good". But were decent, especially in pass pro where several different sites using several different metrics had us top 12 last year.

And as long as Hudson stays, it's certainly not got worse.

Protecting Kyler isn't the concern. If we should be complaining about anything it's the absolutely abysmal run blocking.

 

[kerouac9]

And if you want to gander at PFF rankings, they said Hudson was the best pass blocking center last year iirc.

You know how during some offseason, you'll see one particular thing happen that makes you say, "oh crap, this single player loss could lead to multiple losses during the season...". This that loss. There is no great replacement right now.

Billy Price is a meh player, but I'd trust him more than Pugh and some hope. Keim should sign the guy.

Yeah, man... I dunno. Hudson missed five games last season. Three were during the 10-2 run (CLE, HOU, GB). Two were doing the late-season skid (DET, IND). We were 3-2 in those games with two games decided by seven points or fewer.

I think you said when we got him that Hudson was arguably a Hall of Famer. I don't think we saw that guy you projected, but he was at worst a B+ player.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah, man... I dunno. Hudson missed five games last season. Three were during the 10-2 run (CLE, HOU, GB). Two were doing the late-season skid (DET, IND). We were 3-2 in those games with two games decided by seven points or fewer.

I think you said when we got him that Hudson was arguably a Hall of Famer. I don't think we saw that guy you projected, but he was at worst a B+ player.

Hudson had one of his worst years in memory...it's hard to tell if that was related to the hole at RG and/or his inability to consistently shotgun snap well.

I'm never a fan of having a guy change positions to a position he has never played in the NFL. Pugh is a quality OL, but it's a tall task to learn a position that requires substantial technique change, and the IOL might be a disaster if it doesn't work out well.

 

[Chopper0080]

9th in ILB spending is hilarious with two rookies allegedly manning the starting roles.

31st in edge will be good if the rookies work out at all.

100% example of when they say taking a non-priority position high in the draft diminishes your positional savings.

In your opinion...

PFF ranked the O line 15th last year. Top 10 in pass pro, poor at run blocking.

Olinestats has us 19th overall but again one of the best pass pro lines, bad at run blocking.

ESPN ranked the Cards 12th at pass blocking. 19th in run blocking.

I can't see Football outsiders DVOA rankings for last year, maybe @kerouac9 can help there, but I can see that in their pre season rankings for 2022 they graded them a C, borderline C+. In their tier system that puts them 15th as they were the only team in C they said was borderline C+. Their comments were "No real weaknesses. No superstars. Bunch of solid guys".

On top of what we had last year, which was a top 10 pass blocking line, we get Justin Murray back, added Hernandez, drafted 2 promising rookie Guards and got a year more development in Josh Jones. And all we lost was Garcia.

I don't see how this line is worse. Obviously much depends on Hudson, but I expect him to be at camp.

So you discount my bottom 16 by saying some sites have us 15, 19, and 15.5? So, right around 16 which would put it in the bottom 16. If I said universally held as a bottom 17 would you feel better about it? Come on man...

To your point about us being better...I kind of doubt it. Justin Murray is a meh. Josh Jones is a meh. Will Hernandez was brought in because they were not comfortable with either of those two players starting at RG. Will Hernandez is also a meh. Counting on contributions from 6th round rookies also not realistic and I like those two players. Hudson looks less likely to show which then changes our line from having a slight above average LG and a above average C to a replacement level LG and a replacement level C to pair with a replacement level RG.

This highlights the biggest issue with our offensive line as a group. The quality of 4 of the 5 starters is ok but the 5th starter is replacement level and the depth is the same. This means that under ideal circumstances we have one weak spot and four guys who are not close to being dominant. This means you have someone you consistently have to help which puts the other players under more pressure to win every one-on-one matchup regardless of the player across from them.

 

[Chopper0080]

Basically is your line has to consistently start two of the three of Justin Murray, Will Hernandez and Josh Jones, without multiple pro bowlers next to them and with a QB who has poor pocket skills, you are asking for trouble.

 

[Krangodnzr]

100% example of when they say taking a non-priority position high in the draft diminishes your positional savings.

So you discount my bottom 16 by saying some sites have us 15, 19, and 15.5? So, right around 16 which would put it in the bottom 16. If I said universally held as a bottom 17 would you feel better about it? Come on man...

To your point about us being better...I kind of doubt it. Justin Murray is a meh. Josh Jones is a meh. Will Hernandez was brought in because they were not comfortable with either of those two players starting at RG. Will Hernandez is also a meh. Counting on contributions from 6th round rookies also not realistic and I like those two players. Hudson looks less likely to show which then changes our line from having a slight above average LG and a above average C to a replacement level LG and a replacement level C to pair with a replacement level RG.

This highlights the biggest issue with our offensive line as a group. The quality of 4 of the 5 starters is ok but the 5th starter is replacement level and the depth is the same. This means that under ideal circumstances we have one weak spot and four guys who are not close to being dominant. This means you have someone you consistently have to help which puts the other players under more pressure to win every one-on-one matchup regardless of the player across from them.

You could say the same for probably 28 other teams in the NFL. The depth isn't really the problem. I think it was you who said this years ago, but every good OL has two or three players who are above average starters. The Cardinals don't have that.

 

[MadCardDisease]

So on the way to work this morning I was listening to Bickley and he was saying that the Hudson thing is big. They confirmed that when Hudson was out that balls kept getting snapped early or were sailing left and right over Kyler's head. It was a total disaster without Hudson in there.

 

[kerouac9]

So on the way to work this morning I was listening to Bickley and he was saying that the Hudson thing is big. They confirmed that when Hudson was out that balls kept getting snapped early or were sailing left and right over Kyler's head. It was a total disaster without Hudson in there.

Data bears this out.

Kyler had eight fumbles in the five games that Hudson was out. He had five in the remaining nine games they played together.

 

[Covert Rain]

I just wish we knew details of this entire Hudson thing. It's so damn weird.

 

[Stout]

Basically is your line has to consistently start two of the three of Justin Murray, Will Hernandez and Josh Jones, without multiple pro bowlers next to them and with a QB who has poor pocket skills, you are asking for trouble.

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

 

[jefftheshark]

I'm beginning to think we might not win the Super Bowl this year.

JTS