rome wasn't built in a day, and that's why we should draft...

[arizona_cards_11]

To me, the job description for a premier OLB has to involve both playmaking production on the field and freakish athletic ability (i.e. Lawrence Taylor, Junior Seau or Jason Taylor dominant athleticism).

That's why I've been touting Ware (who is now projected to go in the bottom third of the 1st round). Although he's from a small school and played down lineman in college, he has the size, quickness, toughness and raw atheticism that, if developed properly, could translate into a dominating outside linebacker.

Johnson may be a good OLB but I wonder if he's that dominant athletically to rank in the Top 8 of all prospects this year.

I feel the same way about Miller. Both of these guys rank at the top of their respective positions, but in the absolute, is Miller another Jeremy Shockey? Will Johnson be another Junior Seau?

Ware is another possiblity, he may fit a 4-3, but I personally see him as a 3-4 man.

 

[Duckjake]

Not to nit pick here but we actually have 4 of them on the roster. Macklin, Rhett Nelson, and the 2 guys over in NFLE Clarence Curry and Tyrone Sanders.

It should be we have 1 starter and 3 UDFA's who have never even played the nickle spot before. Which is just as alarming though.

What happened to Robert Tate? Did I miss a transaction?

 

[Russ Smith]

To me, the job description for a premier OLB has to involve both playmaking production on the field and freakish athletic ability (i.e. Lawrence Taylor, Junior Seau or Jason Taylor dominant athleticism).

That's why I've been touting Ware (who is now projected to go in the bottom third of the 1st round). Although he's from a small school and played down lineman in college, he has the size, quickness, toughness and raw atheticism that, if developed properly, could translate into a dominating outside linebacker.

Johnson may be a good OLB but I wonder if he's that dominant athletically to rank in the Top 8 of all prospects this year.

?

I'm going to bite on this because Ware's not even the most athletic "tweener" let alone the most athletic LB in the draft. Johnson ran a faster 40 at the combine and quite a bit faster at his pro day(Johnson went sub 4.5). Slight edge to Ware in vertical and long jump, Johnson won the shuttle, Ware the cone drill, Johnson the lifting. Ware is 9 pounds heavier. Johnson's workout at the combine was called one of the most impressive LB performances in years, largely because of what he showed in the drills that weren't just measuring speed but were measuring LB skills.

Merriman, at roughly 20 pounds heavier than Ware, ran a 4.66 40 and reportedly routinely beats that in drills(teams were actually disappointed in that time they expected him in the 4.5's because of all the reports he runs that in workouts). Merriman's vertical leap and other work was said to be outstanding. Most teams view Merriman as a DE although there are some who might see him as a 3-4 OLB.

Athletically Ware is quite close to both guys but in the combine and workouts he did nothing to separate himself and that's why he's rated behind both, because they played major college ball and he didn't. He sure looks promising but I'd be stunned if we took him at 8.

 

[Russ Smith]

But, he is not 6'6" and 250 lbs.

True but he's the same kind of prospect, his lack of development as a passer (thank you Mack Brown) has got me convinced he'll move to WR in the NFL. I love the kid but he still can't even get his feet set correctly to throw the ball and it's apparent Brown is going to run him more and more and not worry about teaching him to be a real QB. He's nearly as tall as Jones and while likely not as fast, I bet he's not far off, and he's such a great runner with the ball at QB you can imagine him as a WR assuming he can catch the ball.

 

[arizona_cards_11]

V. Young is an amazing athlete, but it is a shame that they aren't doing more at Texas to turn him into an NFL QB.

 

[sundevil81]

Correct me if I'm wrong but getting Justin Miller and "a few cuts from other teams" would = getting a starting CB before the first game no?

That's my whole point, somehow or another we have to get more CB's one of whom is good enough to start. If Green thinks just because the Patriots won a superbowl with their CB situation that means anybody can, he's sadly mistaken. I don't want to break the bank and sign Surtain AND draft a Rolle at #8, but we have 1 guy who has proven he can play CB in the NFL and I don't care how good our DL might be teams will eat us alive if we've not upgraded by the beginning of the year. The Patriots are a much more experienced defensive unit, they've played together in that system long enough to be able to cover for their CB's.

i agree we need another corner, just not at #8. not if dj is available, if he isn't and we made the henry trade, fine go for rolle if he's still there, but i don't think pac man is worth the pick

 

[sundevil81]

You do realize that works both ways? We'll have a shot at CB's this year that we won't get at 20(the pick you threw out for next years pick) because the guys at 20 next year. Right now NFLdraftblitz has Will Blackmon(BC), Jason Allen)(Tenn) and Mike Huff(Texas) rated the top 3 CB's in next years senior class. Allen and Huff both nearly came out this year and both were being projected to FS in the NFL. Cromartie from FSU is the top junior to be. I'm sure some others will pop up like the touted JUCO CB at OU who struggled this year but is scary athletic. But the fact is that if we're picking at 20 next year as you suggest, we are very unlikely to get a CB as good as we'll get at 8.

I think DJ is the best defensive player in the draft if not the best player in the draft, I've been touting him all year, but we're so thin at CB that I'm fairly confident Green is going to take one at 8. That's why I didn't like the Starks trade, an extra 3rd rounder sounds nice until you realize you almost HAVE to draft a CB with that pick since you don't have Starks. ANd what if Hill takes another offer?

it doesn't work both ways because a guy like dj comes along once every five years or so. rolle and pac man aren't even that good for being called the best in the draft, they're more chris mcallister like, almost every year there is someone as good or better than these guys. it is WAY too early to be scouting next years crop of rookies not to metion free agents that may be availabe, if we talked at this time last year about this years crop we wouldn't have even mentioned guys like alex smith and shawn merriman as top 10 picks. thinking that you haveto draft a certain poition gets you tommy knight, thomas jones, calvin pace and bryant johnson and passes on brian urlacher.

 

[JeffGollin]

because a guy like dj comes along once every five years or so
Say what?

 

[earthsci]

I'm not advocating taking Derrick Johnson but if you compare CBs and LBs taken in the first round over the last 5 years there are alot more busts at CB.

Linebackers

• Jonathan Vilma
• D.J. Williams
• Nick Barnett
• Napoleon Harris
• Robert Thomas
• Dan Morgan
• LaVar Arrington
• Brian Urlacher
• John Abraham
• Julian Peterson
• Rob Morris
• Keith Bulluck
• Chris Claiborne
• Jevon Kearse
• Andy Katzenmoyer
• Al Wilson

Cornerbacks

• DeAngelo Hall
• Dunta Robinson
• Ahmad Carroll
• Chris Gamble
• Terence Newman
• Marcus Trufant
• Andre Woolfolk
• Sammy Davis
• Nnamdi Asomugha
• Quentin Jammer
• Phillip Buchanon
• Lito Sheppard
• Mike Rumph
• Nate Clements
• Will Allen
• Willie Middlebrooks
• Jamar Fletcher
• Derrick Gibson
• Deltha O'Neal
• Rashard Anderson
• Ahmed Plummer
• Champ Bailey
• Chris McAlister
• Antoine Winfield
• Antwan Edwards
• Fernando Bryant

The bust ratio between LBs and CBs is even worse after the first round.

 

[earthsci]

Perhaps 'disappointing' is a better term than 'bust'.

 

[Russ Smith]

it doesn't work both ways because a guy like dj comes along once every five years or so. rolle and pac man aren't even that good for being called the best in the draft, they're more chris mcallister like, almost every year there is someone as good or better than these guys. it is WAY too early to be scouting next years crop of rookies not to metion free agents that may be availabe, if we talked at this time last year about this years crop we wouldn't have even mentioned guys like alex smith and shawn merriman as top 10 picks. thinking that you haveto draft a certain poition gets you tommy knight, thomas jones, calvin pace and bryant johnson and passes on brian urlacher.

I'm a big DJ fan but next year there should be this kid named Ahmad Brooks in the draft who'll be even higher rated. There's several good LB's who may breakout, a kid like Spencer Havner at UCLA would be a great fit in our defense if he can past his annoying habit of nagging injuries.

I want DJ too so I feel dumb disagreeing with you but I think Green has almost painted himself into a corner at CB. At least we have SOMETHING at LB, we have nothing at CB and teams really don't typically cut good CB's in June. That's why I think Surtain is such a rare chance but we're clearly not interested. Law has a major foot issue that's why the Chiefs didnt' sign him, theyr'e waiting to see if his foot heals.

I would love to pick DJ and I'll be thrilled if we do, but we better get some help at CB or it'll bite us in the butt next season.

 

[john h]

A few months back I never even considered a LB with our first pick. However, the more and more I read about Johnson and even Merriman I'm starting to think of what an awesome front seven we would have. Best in the West and maybe in the NFC.

O'Keafor, Dockett, Davis,Berry
Dansby, Hayes, and Johnson.

Wow. Add Fisher, Huff and Darling and not only do we have speed to burn but we have great depth.

Make the trade for Henry and we can take ANYBODY we feel is the BPA.

Question: Do we want to draft a pretty good DB with our #1 or a LB who appears to have a shot at being much better than pretty good. I think I am being a realist in thinking next year we will not make the playoffs. If we do things right the following year I think we could. I know a LB is not a big need but in absence of not taking a RB then for the long haul I would strongly consider Johnson. I have not watched this guy much but everything I read about him puts him as a cannot miss guy. I am not a BPA sort of guy but in this case I think I am and I think Johnson is going to be the BPA if he is even there at #8. Frankly I do not think he will be simply because he is that good. Next year we need to move past the .500 mark. 9 & 7 would be a good go in my mind.

 

[john h]

I want DJ as much as anybody but the way it shapes up now we have GOT to get a starting CB between now and the first game to play opposite Macklin and I don't think said CB is on the roster now. I'll be surprised if the BPA at 8 isn't a CB unless we make a move before the draft.

I think Johnson's speed, versatility, and tendency to cause turnovers (NCAA single season forced fumble record) would be a terrific fit on our defense but I'm fairly resigned to us not picking him because of the gaping hole at CB.

There will probably be some decent CB's coming out of the draft in the lower rounds. Nothing says we have to use our #1.

 

[john h]

we've GOT to get a starting cb before now and the first game b/c right now we only have ONE CORNERBACK ON OUR ROSTER! you ASSUME that we'll resign hill, but it's not a given. and even then, only two corners on our entire roster?!? alarming.

If we draft a CB at #8 there is no guarantee he will be a starter. It might be that our 7th round CB pick could be the starter. There is a much better chance that Johnson would be a starter and a good one than any CB we take.

 

[john h]

NEWSFLAH, THIS JUST IN... there is more than one round in the nfl draft. i am not saying go with what we have, i am saying bpa at #8 (dj) also filling a potential need ANDTHEN draft two corners and pick up some cuts from other teams. we are also not only building this team for next year we are building for an entire future, corners will be available next year too, but dj won't.

Makes sense to me.

 

[john h]

Exactly!!!!!!

Just like there won't be another Matt Jones!!!!!

Also makes sense to me. McNabb to Jones. Get used to it as you will hear it a lot.

 

[john h]

Correct me if I'm wrong but getting Justin Miller and "a few cuts from other teams" would = getting a starting CB before the first game no?

That's my whole point, somehow or another we have to get more CB's one of whom is good enough to start. If Green thinks just because the Patriots won a superbowl with their CB situation that means anybody can, he's sadly mistaken. I don't want to break the bank and sign Surtain AND draft a Rolle at #8, but we have 1 guy who has proven he can play CB in the NFL and I don't care how good our DL might be teams will eat us alive if we've not upgraded by the beginning of the year. The Patriots are a much more experienced defensive unit, they've played together in that system long enough to be able to cover for their CB's.

We need to sign the CB we had. We know he can play CB in the NFL. Any CB we draft is a rookie and he may or not start in the NFL. A bird in the hand is----------------

 

[sunsfan13]

We do not need a CB in the first round. The CB's projected in the late day 1 and early day 2 are good prospects and many are ready to contribute at an NFL level now. Also, let's not forget that there are still FA CB's available (Dyson, Law, Hill). CB may be our biggest hole, but it is also easily filled without using our 8 pick.

 

[john h]

You do realize that works both ways? We'll have a shot at CB's this year that we won't get at 20(the pick you threw out for next years pick) because the guys at 20 next year. Right now NFLdraftblitz has Will Blackmon(BC), Jason Allen)(Tenn) and Mike Huff(Texas) rated the top 3 CB's in next years senior class. Allen and Huff both nearly came out this year and both were being projected to FS in the NFL. Cromartie from FSU is the top junior to be. I'm sure some others will pop up like the touted JUCO CB at OU who struggled this year but is scary athletic. But the fact is that if we're picking at 20 next year as you suggest, we are very unlikely to get a CB as good as we'll get at 8.

I think DJ is the best defensive player in the draft if not the best player in the draft, I've been touting him all year, but we're so thin at CB that I'm fairly confident Green is going to take one at 8. That's why I didn't like the Starks trade, an extra 3rd rounder sounds nice until you realize you almost HAVE to draft a CB with that pick since you don't have Starks. ANd what if Hill takes another offer?

DJ is almost a sure thing. Any CB no matter who is much more of a gamble than DJ. I keep remembering Tommy Knight. The thought of him will just no go away.

 

[john h]

To me, the job description for a premier OLB has to involve both playmaking production on the field and freakish athletic ability (i.e. Lawrence Taylor, Junior Seau or Jason Taylor dominant athleticism).

That's why I've been touting Ware (who is now projected to go in the bottom third of the 1st round). Although he's from a small school and played down lineman in college, he has the size, quickness, toughness and raw atheticism that, if developed properly, could translate into a dominating outside linebacker.

Johnson may be a good OLB but I wonder if he's that dominant athletically to rank in the Top 8 of all prospects this year.

I feel the same way about Miller. Both of these guys rank at the top of their respective positions, but in the absolute, is Miller another Jeremy Shockey? Will Johnson be another Junior Seau?

I hate the Longhorns but do watch them as they were long time Arkansas rivals. Johnson in my view is one those every 5 year type of LB's. He is a player and he will make an impact. The CB's may be good and they may not. A lot more risky than Johnson. I want a RB with our #8 but if Johnson is there I take him. That is how good I think he will be.

 

[sunsfan13]

DJ is as close as it gets to a sure thing. He is by far the most NFL ready player in this draft. He is the best LB prospect in years and can be mentioned along with Ray Lewis and Lavar Arrington as the best LB prospects of the last decade.

 

[sundevil81]

amen! finally some guys that agree with me.