Ross was a bad choice...

[Reddog]

According to a friend that followed the Steelers, Ross is a leader and has a nasty streak something we did not have prior to his signing.

 

[TheCardFan]

According to a friend that followed the Steelers, Ross is a leader and has a nasty streak something we did not have prior to his signing.

Paris Hilton has a nasty streak but I don't want her playing RT either.

 

[DieHardFromMO]

Lester Holmes was a guard drafted in the 1st round by the Eagles who we signed from the Raiders, he never played tackle for us.....

Your right, Lester Holmes did come from the Raiders. Don't know why I thought he came from the Steelers. Makes me feel better about signing Ross.

I never said Lester Holmes played Tackle for us, I said he was a guard just like Duval Love.

 

[Redheart]

Paris Hilton has a nasty streak but I don't want her playing RT either.

Can we at least try Paris out at training camp?

 

[slanidrac16]

I think that the only people who have ever used the term "Big Red Line" are Arizona Cardinals fans. Not once have I seen that term used by a non-Cards fan. I hate to say it, but the "Big Red Line" is a product of Cardinal fan delusion. They don't have a reputation they haven't earned because outside Arizona no one thinks highly of the line as a whole. The actual reputation outside of Arizona is that of a poor offensive line that slowly improved throughout the year to the point where they are mediocre. That's the real reputation of the Cardinals offensive line and I think it's well deserved.

I'm not saying you're wrong when you say the line hasn't performed up to snuff. I just don't think saying they have an unearned reputation is fair to the players because that reputation is 100% a product of Cardinal fan hope and delusion.

Thoughts and feelings?

I don't care who percieves what. It's the players perception thats important. They were coddled by Mac and underachieved. Green came here and some players buckled under the expectations.

I know when the Cardinals came to Chicago , the newspaper would comment on the "BIG RED " line. References to the Big Red line were not isolated in Arizona. MAtters not.

 

[TheCardFan]

I hate to be negative and put a foot over the line into the darkside but I think Oliver Ross was a bad choice. The only thing he brings to the table that Clement doesn't...is the attitude. Attitude is very very important but his skills don't match his attitude.

A couple of notes...I am as big of a DG fan as there is in Cardinal Nation. I love the Warner signing and believe DG has us headed in the right direction but I just don't like this choice...here is why:

Ross was a career back-up until last year. Why?
The Steelers are happy to replace him with a 3rd rd choice from the 2004 draft, who hasn't started an NFL game...Why?
The Steelers were completely un-interested in re-signing either Ross or Vincent (both from the right side of the oline)...Why?

Pass Blocking?

Ross has given up a sack in every 2.33 starts.
Clement (dubbed the human turnstile) has given up a sack every 2.94 starts.

Run Blocking?

Last year, the first year Ross had started 16 games (all on the right side), this was the rushing totals for the two main RB's.

Player_______Rushes_____Yards_____Avg

Bettis
Left__________93________396______4.2
Middle________88________347______3.9
Right_________69________198______2.8

Staley
Left__________62_______274_______4.4
Middle________71_______331_______4.6
Right_________59_______225_______3.8

Total
Left________155________670______4.3
Middle______159________678______4.2
Right_______128________423______3.3

That is a big difference.

I was very interested in Vincent as a FA (.5 sacks all year in 16 starts) but he there is obviously a drop off on the right side and may explain the Steelers not going all out to sign these guys back.

A little early...but *BUMP*

*Edit - Sorry Pariah....not meant to toot my own horn but just to point out that alot of us didn't think Ross was an upgrade over what we had. I know Clement was bad but I don't ever remember him getting pushed back 10 yards straight back like a 9 yr old vs a sumo wrestler. That was just plain awful.

 

[Pariah]

A little early...but *BUMP*

WAY early to be tooting your own horn...as if there even IS a good time to toot your own horn.

 

[BigDavis75]

WAY early to be tooting your own horn...as if there even IS a good time to toot your own horn.

I was saying the same thing, but I was at an advantage since I watched all Steelers games except for one. BTW Max Starks looks amazing, he already looks a ton better than Ross. Simmons was coming back from adult-onset diabetes and a knee injury so Vincent (who played excellently in 04-05) wasn't needed anymore.

 

[CardinalChris]

So Dennis Green and Rod Graves sit around since the end of the season and evaluate player. They watch film. They read bios. They call fellow coaches and friends for opinions.

Then free agency starts. Could we go out and sign McKenzie ? Sure, but he is going to cost us 30 mil. Well wait a minute. We can sign Jennings. Sure but he is going to cost us 30 mil.

And we still have all these other needs.

So, lets watch the films. Green turns to Graves and says,"HEY, this Oliver Ross guy seems like my type of player" Graves replies,"Okay, lets go get him. WE think he's an upgrade, and we can still go out and get a few more guys."

My point is he is the guy that we wanted. He apparently is capable of doing what Green feels needs to be done.

Why is Pittsburgh willing to let him go? For the same reasons other teams let players go. Salary cap and players currently on rosters ready to step up and step in.
Why are we willing to let Shelton go? There seems to be plenty of other teams that seem to think he's worth it.

I'll turn this around on you. Who in the hell would be willing to give Shelton 3 Million a year when he couldn't even start for a team that won 6 games and was in the bottom half of the league in running and passing for the last 5 years?

This offensive line had been billed as the "Big RED Line" for years. They have lived off a reputation that had never been earned. It's been said that some of these players aren't "mean" enough. That can be interpreted in many ways. Attitude, hunger, drive and a willingness to pay the price to be the best.

If Green and Graves are happy with Ross, so am I.

The best post of the day. Personnel in football is tradeoffs. Was he the top rated? No, but would you rather have McKenzie or Ross and say, Okeafor? I'm not saying that's what happened, but you have to realize there are always tradeoffs.

 

[JeffGollin]

While those stats indicating that the Steeler RB's gained more per carry running to their left are interesting, no context was provided. By this I mean:

- How do these (left-center-right) ratios stack up against RB's on other teams?

- Is there a natural bias toward picking up more yards running to the left when the QB is right handed? (i.e. he'd provide more of a counter-threat rolling to his right faking or handing off to the RB running to his left).

- Do most teams put their best offensive linemen on the left side (in order to protect the QB's blind side) and, therefore, add to any kind of left-side running bias?

- Aren't many defenses set up to anchor against runs to the right more than they are against runs to the left? (Examples - Lighter, quicker DE's who rush off the edge to attack the QB's blind side Lighter and quicker ROLB's for the same reason). Wouldn't this also result in bigger gains on runs to the left?

- Or not.

All I'm saying is that sometimes there's more to pure stats than meets the eye.

And it by no means lets Ross off the hook (nor does it let Wells over on the left side off the hook either; or for that matter, Brown and our rookie center). Forget the stats and watch the tape. Their run blocking has been nonexistant.

 

[Russ Smith]

I remember this thread the first time around surprised me because I really think Vincent is a mauler run blocker so I was surprised the numbers right weren't better.

However, the other element people forget is you need to see the redzone numbers and in particular the numbers inside the 5 yard line. What you'll find IMHO is most teams will run a certain way inside the 5 yard line because that's where their best run blockers are and they're going that way most of the time because they'd rather take their chances behind their best guy(for us Big). So if you figure over a course of a season that you run that way 2-3 times a game you can see that it's going to LOWER your YPC number running that way. I don't see that in Bettis' stats but it's another possibility.

I just am not that impressed with Ross and never really have been but hopefully he'll get better.



In other words, Pitt may very well have felt Ross and Vincent were their best run blockers, so when they got inside the 5 they always ran right, and all those short yardage runs simply lowered the YPC number?

 

[spanky1]

Oliver Ross played the cumulative of one preseason game, sprains a knee and has all of seven days to prepare for the opening game of the season, wears a knee brace, struggles to "get the rust off" and is deemed a bust FA acquisition.

I'll tell ya, this is one very hard fan base to please.

Bryant Johnson has a super pre season yet drops four passes, that while catchable, were not easy and the catbirds are calling for his head. The two catches he did make for a total of 30 yards goes completely unnoticed.

JJ Arrington has 5 carries in total and based on an overall weak showing by an O-Line that has two rookies playing, is deemed to be another Thomas Jones= bust.

Larry Fitzgerald has a 13 catch 155 yard day and is accused of being too slow and nothing more than another posssession receiver with poor YAC statistics.

I wish that we were just a little more forgiving of our team considering that we've played but one game so far.

 

[earthsci]

Spanky,
Though admittedly I haven't really watched Ross before he came here, I am basing my opinions on what BigDavis and others were saying about him before his injury. I have alot of faith in Denny and I hope that he sees something that others don't.

 

[Pariah]

I'll tell ya, this is one very hard fan base to please.

No, it's not. Denver fans are hard to please. Packer fans are hard to please. New England Fans are hard to please. Dallas Fans are hard to please. Etc, etc...

We are the single most easy fans to please because we'd throw a parade for an 8-8 season. If we go 10-6 you'd think Denny put the team on the moon. If we win a playoff game you'd see a rash of children with a first name of "Card" and a middle name of "Nall."

Denver fans are btching and moaning about only have been to the playoffs 3 times in the last 6 years. They're saing that their team is not well coached (they were the only team in the league in the top-10 for every meaningful offensive and defensive stat category in '04).

Cardinals' fans just want a 1,000 yard rusher. They just want a defense that gets more than 15 sacks. They want something to give them hope.

 

[clif]

Solid points on both sides by Spanky and Pariah. Me personally I want what we all want and this is production, but I think Ross playing against Strahan in his first action as a Cardinal is damn near the ultimate baptism by fire. There aren't that many players in the league better at his position than Strahan.

I think the question is... Is Ross as bad as he showed last week? I highly doubt that. I don't think it is a stretch to assume that he will make some improvement from game 1 to game 2 simply based on him having another week for him to feel comfortable with that knee.

One can reasonably assume that Elton Brown will feel more comfortable in his assignments as he gets more and more practice and gains more confidence.

I would also expect the coaches to become more familiar with said players strengths and put them in better position to succeed. (ie... having the RB more closely monitor the right side of the line in blitz pickup with chip blocks.

As mentioned numerous times this week, I think it would be reasonable to expect that our returning starting center has more to offer than a 3rd, 4th, or 5th string center.

So there is evidence that an improvement is possible and most likely. Will that improvement mean going from 31 yards to say 120 or to say 50? Who knows, but I think the Rams are less physical of a football than the Giants.

 

[Russ Smith]

Oliver Ross played the cumulative of one preseason game, sprains a knee and has all of seven days to prepare for the opening game of the season, wears a knee brace, struggles to "get the rust off" and is deemed a bust FA acquisition.

.

You do realize the thread you're posting on was started right after Ross signed several months ago? SOmeone just bumped it back up because it seemed so clairvoyant based on the first game.

We overpaid for Ross IMHO, I think he's better than he played Sunday but I don't think he'll play as well here as he did in Pitt unless we get 4 guys alongside of him as good as they had. When you see what we pay Ross you realize how unlikely we'll be able to afford 4 better players.

 

[Pariah]

We overpaid for Ross IMHO,

Overpayment is a relative term, IMO. When we have money under the cap and need a player, I don't mind overpaying. As a fan, I just was to win games and I don't overly concern myself with salaries.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Oliver Ross played the cumulative of one preseason game, sprains a knee and has all of seven days to prepare for the opening game of the season, wears a knee brace, struggles to "get the rust off" and is deemed a bust FA acquisition.

I'll tell ya, this is one very hard fan base to please.

Bryant Johnson has a super pre season yet drops four passes, that while catchable, were not easy and the catbirds are calling for his head. The two catches he did make for a total of 30 yards goes completely unnoticed.

JJ Arrington has 5 carries in total and based on an overall weak showing by an O-Line that has two rookies playing, is deemed to be another Thomas Jones= bust.

Larry Fitzgerald has a 13 catch 155 yard day and is accused of being too slow and nothing more than another posssession receiver with poor YAC statistics.

I wish that we were just a little more forgiving of our team considering that we've played but one game so far.

reread your entire post and tell me what's to forgive?

 

[spanky1]

reread your entire post and tell me what's to forgive?

.....that we've played all of one game so far this season.....as a lawyer, do you think it is fair to judge someone guilty or not guilty after 60 minutes of total cross examination ?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

.....that we've played all of one game so far this season.....as a lawyer, do you think it is fair to judge someone guilty or not guilty after 60 minutes of total cross examination ?

there's also a lot of prior history to take into account. the futility of this franchise cannot be overlooked in the examination.

also, i think we have more evidence to work with than just the first game, we also have four preseason games worth of crappy offense on which to base our opinion. nothing in the first game gave us reason to believe that what we saw on the field during the preseason was not an accurate representation of the team's offense. that said i suppose we are basing our opinions on 1/6th of the evidence if we factor in that maybe two games' worth of first team play was evidenced in the four preseason games. that's a total of 3 games of 18 we've witnessed. is 1/6th of the evidence enough to condemn? no, but it sure starts to lead in a particular direction . . . particularly when the evidence is so damning. if opposing counsel has some startling bit of evidence that they have yet to reveal it'll have to be REALLY damn startling to shift the momentum of this trial.

 

[spanky1]

there's also a lot of prior history to take into account. the futility of this franchise cannot be overlooked in the examination.

also, i think we have more evidence to work with than just the first game, we also have four preseason games worth of crappy offense on which to base our opinion. nothing in the first game gave us reason to believe that what we saw on the field during the preseason was not an accurate representation of the team's offense. that said i suppose we are basing our opinions on 1/6th of the evidence if we factor in that maybe two games' worth of first team play was evidenced in the four preseason games. that's a total of 3 games of 18 we've witnessed. is 1/6th of the evidence enough to condemn? no, but it sure starts to lead in a particular direction . . . particularly when the evidence is so damning. if opposing counsel has some startling bit of evidence that they have yet to reveal it'll have to be REALLY damn startling to shift the momentum of this trial.

......opposing counsel requests a three day recess in order to analyse additiional information that will be available at that time. Opposing Counsel agrees to share said information with the prosecuting attorney prior to reconvening the case........

 

[Snakester]

We all saw that Ross had a bad first game. Part of that was being rusty and another part was because he was going against Strahan. Ross is better than what he showed and will get better as the season goes on and he gets into shape. When we all had this conversation about him when we signed him, many of the people that have seen him play and studied game film on him were all in a certain amount of agreement.

His strong suit is not pass blocking and probably never will be. We signed him for his run blocking skills and aggressive attitude. He will get better as well as the running game but we all have to realize that we didn't sign a probowl right tackle. We signed an average guy with better than average run blocking skills. Yes we over paid for him. We are stuck with him for at least this season so hopefully he will get himself back into shape quickly and start earning some of that big paycheck he got.