Roster ideas and rumors for Suns

[Mainstreet]

I see what you are saying but with the trade market all dried up PHX has no choice but to develop Smith to either showcase him for a trade later or hold onto him if he becomes a contributor. Again, win-win because right now this is the only option for PHX. Instead of making a hasty move and selling low, invest a little more time which big men usually need and see if you have a keeper who is on a rookie deal for next three years.

Agree there is no need to rush a move unless the right player falls in the Suns hands. Never say never because a lot of things can happen.

Also the Suns might be able to add a serviceable player via a buyout or waiver. They have an open roster spot.

Also the Suns also might add a player using the other two-way spot.

If Stix progreses, I'm rather fond of the idea of the idea of having Saric and Smith on the roster next season.

 

[Hoop Head]

If the Suns keep Jalen Smith his progress this coming season or lack thereof will weigh heavily into their decision.

The reason I used the word "if" is because his contract has a team option for the 2022/23 and 2023/24 seasons. So if Stix doesn't show significant signs of improvement in the coming months the Suns will likely make a decision whether to keep him by the end of this season.

If the Suns have shopped Smith, it hints that perhaps they have already made that decision or they want to use his contract in a trade for a veteran.

I would be shocked if they don't pick up his option for next season. Everyone knew he'd take time so calling him a bust this early is shortsighted. Plus declining that option will hurt any value he may have in a trade as a young prospect. Sure, it'd be an expiring deal but such a small expiring contract carries no real value.

I think year 3 is more of a formality as far as options and as long as the player isn't a head case, has serious health issues, or is an utter failure on the court then they'll get their 3rd year picked up. Bender had his 3rd year picked up. I'm fairly certain a lottery pick has never had their 3rd year option declined.

 

[Hoop Head]

Sure sounds like CP3 is about to ask for that trade soon, like 1Sun said he would. Here's a quote from Paul about this offseason...

“It was an easy decision,” Paul said. “Not only did I love the basketball aspect, I’m close to family (in Los Angeles) and Phoenix is a family, too. I’m excited to be back there.”
Now, the Suns face the challenge of trying to win the West again in a deep, talented conference.
“The thing I’m looking forward to now is our approach to the every day,” he said. “You don’t start the season and get to automatically end up at the Finals again. It’s another building process, and I’m excited about going through this experience with these guys because I went as far (in the playoffs) as I’ve ever been. We’ll be on this journey of something new together."

Usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2021/09/09/chris-paul-gopuff-team-up-assist-underrepresented-businesses/5778972001/

 

[Mainstreet]

I would be shocked if they don't pick up his option for next season. Everyone knew he'd take time so calling him a bust this early is shortsighted. Plus declining that option will hurt any value he may have in a trade as a young prospect. Sure, it'd be an expiring deal but such a small expiring contract carries no real value.

I think year 3 is more of a formality as far as options and as long as the player isn't a head case, has serious health issues, or is an utter failure on the court then they'll get their 3rd year picked up. Bender had his 3rd year picked up. I'm fairly certain a lottery pick has never had their 3rd year option declined.

If the Suns didn't pick up the option for Smith it would be like declaring him a bust. They would try to trade him first. I don't think James Jones would want this on his resume. I have heard some in the media say Smith didn't have any value prior to summer league. I wonder if that has changed.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would be shocked if they don't pick up his option for next season. Everyone knew he'd take time so calling him a bust this early is shortsighted. Plus declining that option will hurt any value he may have in a trade as a young prospect. Sure, it'd be an expiring deal but such a small expiring contract carries no real value.

I think year 3 is more of a formality as far as options and as long as the player isn't a head case, has serious health issues, or is an utter failure on the court then they'll get their 3rd year picked up. Bender had his 3rd year picked up. I'm fairly certain a lottery pick has never had their 3rd year option declined.

I agree with all of this except I'm unsure about your last sentence. I thought it had happened but maybe it was just being considered (or speculated on)?

 

[Mainstreet]

Sure sounds like CP3 is about to ask for that trade soon, like 1Sun said he would. Here's a quote from Paul about this offseason...

“It was an easy decision,” Paul said. “Not only did I love the basketball aspect, I’m close to family (in Los Angeles) and Phoenix is a family, too. I’m excited to be back there.”
Now, the Suns face the challenge of trying to win the West again in a deep, talented conference.
“The thing I’m looking forward to now is our approach to the every day,” he said. “You don’t start the season and get to automatically end up at the Finals again. It’s another building process, and I’m excited about going through this experience with these guys because I went as far (in the playoffs) as I’ve ever been. We’ll be on this journey of something new together."

Usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2021/09/09/chris-paul-gopuff-team-up-assist-underrepresented-businesses/5778972001/

This is quite the endorsement by Chris Paul. The reasonable contract he signed with the Suns is another endorsement as well.

Although Paul has never won a championship, I'm hoping he becomes the Tom Brady of the NBA when it comes to longevity and quality of play.

 

[Hoop Head]

I agree with all of this except I'm unsure about your last sentence. I thought it had happened but maybe it was just being considered (or speculated on)?

The 4th year option has been declined for some lotto picks, which happened with Bender. I can't recall a 3rd year option being declined though.

I think there might be some confusion because its fairly new still where a team has 3rd and 4th year options for rookie scale contracts.

 

[Mainstreet]

Players that don't show much after two seasons like Josh Jackson and Marquese Chriss usually find their way out via trade.

 

[1Sun]

We'll at least make the playoffs with this roster barring any injuries. Maybe not a #2 seed because teams in West like GS are healthier but PHX is a Top 8 team in West right now.

As long as Jalen Smith isn't getting significant minutes, I agree, but if we stick with a power forward rotation of Jae and Cam, we will be a 6 or 7 seed and eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. I am pretty sure that's not what CP3 was thinking when he re-signed here.

 

[Carolinacacti]

That

As long as Jalen Smith isn't getting significant minutes, I agree, but if we stick with a power forward rotation of Jae and Cam, we will be a 6 or 7 seed and eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. I am pretty sure that's not what CP3 was thinking when he re-signed here.

well that means the Suns will be the number two seed at least.

 

[Hoop Head]

As long as Jalen Smith isn't getting significant minutes, I agree, but if we stick with a power forward rotation of Jae and Cam, we will be a 6 or 7 seed and eliminated in the first round of the playoffs. I am pretty sure that's not what CP3 was thinking when he re-signed here.

PF rotation of Jae and Cam get us the #2 seed last season but the 6 or 7 seed this year. Sure, makes sense. Odds makers says otherwise. They seem to all have the Suns as #3 in the West to win the title behind the Lakers and Warriors. I wouldn't bet on either of them over Phoenix. Klay has missed 2 full seasons at this point, who knows what he'll look like. The Lakers are an impending disaster full of old timers.

 

[1Sun]

PF rotation of Jae and Cam get us the #2 seed last season but the 6 or 7 seed this year. Sure, makes sense. Odds makers says otherwise. They seem to all have the Suns as #3 in the West to win the title behind the Lakers and Warriors. I wouldn't bet on either of them over Phoenix. Klay has missed 2 full seasons at this point, who knows what he'll look like. The Lakers are an impending disaster full of old timers.

As rosters currently stand, if the Suns do not bring in a legitimate NBA power forward to split minutes with Jae while moving Cam to his natural wing position, the Lakers, Jazz, Nuggets and Warriors are clearly superior to the Suns, who look to duke it out with the Mavericks and Blazers for seeds 5-7 (and possibly the Grizzlies for seeds 5-8).

 

[Covert Rain]

But he hasn't been our main solution at PF, he's been the backup to Crowder. I believe we need to add a more traditional power forward for those nights that the Cameron matchup goes in favor of the other team but even still, Johnson is going to get his share of minutes. IMO he would get his share of minutes on most teams although maybe not quite the 24 minutes per he averaged with us.

The biggest problem we have IMO is that this team a year ago was NOT one or two players away from being a championship team. Trading for Paul made us a solid playoff contender but injuries across the league paved the way for our record and subsequent tournament run.

We have all the key players back except for Saric but we've added a decent backup shooting guard and a very good backup center. All told that's a net improvement. It still doesn't make us the favorite but I don't know how to bring in a star power forward while keeping the rest of the rotation intact.

And IMO a good power forward or a legendary leap by Ayton is what's needed for us to truly be a championship contender this season. But last year showed that just being close to that level can put you in a position to take advantage when ill fortune befalls some of the other teams. We did it and reached the finals before we became one of those teams that suffered ill fortune, the Bucks were like us and stayed injury free enough to win it all.

He has been part of the rotation when Crowder wasn't shooting well and they tried to go small during the playoffs several times with Bridges on the floor at the same time. Really where we got exposed is when Crowder either got into foul trouble or when he had really bad games. It became even worse if Ayton was also having a rough time. There was nobody there to grab boards or get stops. So they tried several times to force Cam into the rotation to give us a spark but we ended up getting worked in the paint. So, it's not that Cam was our primary PF. He wasn't. That's not the issue. Cam can't be expected to play like a big. He is most effective moving without the ball.

Also, I disagree. If we had a solid big that could come in for Ayton/Crowder? We win that title. The dynamic of the team completely changed every time Ayton went to the bench. We were 2 games away. I think it's a safe bet to say we were one solid contributor with size away from a title. We just needed someone that could hold court long enough to get Crowder or Ayton back into games. We went small in those situations and got worked repeatedly. We literally had no answers in those situations. Frank/Cam combo isn't going to get it done.

 

[Mainstreet]

He has been part of the rotation when Crowder wasn't shooting well and they tried to go small during the playoffs several times with Bridges on the floor at the same time. Really where we got exposed is when Crowder either got into foul trouble or when he had really bad games. It became even worse if Ayton was also having a rough time. There was nobody there to grab boards or get stops. So they tried several times to force Cam into the rotation to give us a spark but we ended up getting worked in the paint. So, it's not that Cam was our primary PF. He wasn't. That's not the issue. Cam can't be expected to play like a big. He is most effective moving without the ball.

Also, I disagree. If we had a solid big that could come in for Ayton/Crowder? We win that title. The dynamic of the team completely changed every time Ayton went to the bench. We were 2 games away. I think it's a safe bet to say we were one solid contributor with size away from a title. We just needed someone that could hold court long enough to get Crowder or Ayton back into games. We went small in those situations and got worked repeatedly. We literally had no answers in those situations. Frank/Cam combo isn't going to get it done.

IMO, Crowder is a worthy starting power forward but the Suns need to fortify their front line against injury and match-up problems.

Cam Johnson is much discussed. He can play both forward positions but I think he is a better small forward than power forward. Admittedly match-up problems goes both ways but bigger athletic power forwards with similar skills creates a problem especially if the Suns do not have a center on the court.

It would be nice if the Suns could bring another forward off the bench that could swing between the 4 and 5 much like Craig... hopefully a taller version. This is the role I think James Jones may have envisioned for Stix.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Also, I disagree. If we had a solid big that could come in for Ayton/Crowder? We win that title. The dynamic of the team completely changed every time Ayton went to the bench. We were 2 games away. I think it's a safe bet to say we were one solid contributor with size away from a title. We just needed someone that could hold court long enough to get Crowder or Ayton back into games. We went small in those situations and got worked repeatedly. We literally had no answers in those situations. Frank/Cam combo isn't going to get it done.

Maybe we'd win game 4 but probably not the series unless by "solid" you mean all star or close to it. And we'd have won game 4 anyway if Paul's injuries hadn't left him in such bad shape (horrible shooting, 7 to 5 turnovers/assists). Also Devin's hamstring and Payton's ankle made Milwaukee's defenders look like superstars.

But a "solid" power forward would help us a lot this season assuming we can keep our guards reasonably healthy. I'd be all for moving Crowder to backup and using Cameron to backup the SF spot and fill in at the 4 when we go smaller. I just don't know how we get that player without giving up a lot. All I see are guys that could maybe fight Cam for minutes and that's not changing our fortune IMO. Unless it's an older power forward that's willing to play sporadic minutes.

 

[Hoop Head]

Also, I disagree. If we had a solid big that could come in for Ayton/Crowder? We win that title. The dynamic of the team completely changed every time Ayton went to the bench. We were 2 games away. I think it's a safe bet to say we were one solid contributor with size away from a title. We just needed someone that could hold court long enough to get Crowder or Ayton back into games. We went small in those situations and got worked repeatedly. We literally had no answers in those situations. Frank/Cam combo isn't going to get it done.

And that's a big reason we signed JaVale McGee. He'll be able to provide Ayton some rest and help cover when he's in foul trouble.

 

[1Sun]

And that's a big reason we signed JaVale McGee. He'll be able to provide Ayton some rest and help cover when he's in foul trouble.

And that will help some, but what we need even more is someone who can play WITH Ayton or McGee in the frontcourt against teams that have a classic power forward up front.

 

[Muggz]

How many teams have signed a player to ride the pine all season just to use them in the playoffs? Serious question. I can't think of a single instance of that that didn't involve an injury of some sort.

Like Steve said, we're likely better off waiting for the buyout market to find a PF type of player if we still need one then for a playoff run. There isn't anyone that fits the bill available now bury on the bench and hope they'll earn their keep come playoff time.

When and where did I say that? Obviously if we had a decent PF we would use him during the season duh.

 

[Hoop Head]

When and where did I say that? Obviously if we had a decent PF we would use him during the season duh.

I never claimed you did. Here is what you said that led to my question. You said...

Really just for the playoffs. We could get by during the reg season w/o but we will need some size at the 4 come playoff time. Why not get someone in here now that could buy in to the whole family thingy and have time to gel with the boys.

Which caused me to ask my question because Steve already made the point we don't have time to offer a player a nightly role or a fairly regular role. So... I don't get why you're asking. Looking back at the conversation it seems pretty clear. I didn't put words in your mouth, I asked a question based on your post where you did seem to imply we could get away with not using them during the season.

 

[Mainstreet]

If the Suns can give Torrey Craig 18.8 minutes a game last season, they can afford to give another power forward type some minutes if he can contribute.

Of course the Suns options are limited at this point so we have to see who becomes available.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If the Suns can give Torrey Craig 18.8 minutes a game last season, they can afford to give another power forward type some minutes if he can contribute.

Of course the Suns options are limited at this point so we have to see who becomes available.

You could argue that he played pretty much every position except point guard. How much of that 19 minutes do you think he spent at power forward? I didn't think it was very much but I'm not sure how to find positional information. But yes, "if he can contribute" they'll find minutes for a power forward.

 

[Mainstreet]

Torrey Craig is mostly a 3 but he was forced to play a lot of 4/5 for the Suns. The minutes are there.

Also the Suns lost two two frontline players in Saric (injury) and Craig from last season. Adding McGee was a tremendous addituon but the Suns are short a front court player. There are times when the Suns will be forced to go to smaller lineups.

Also foul trouble or injury can further deplete the Suns size as we saw with the injury to Saric in the Finals.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Torrey Craig is mostly a 3 but he was forced to play a lot of 4/5 for the Suns. The minutes are there.

Also the Suns lost two two frontline players in Saric (injury) and Craig from last season. Adding McGee was a tremendous addituon but the Suns are short a front court player. There are times when the Suns will be forced to go small in certain situations.

Also foul trouble or injury can further deplete the Suns size as we saw with the injury to Saric in the Finals.

I don't think anyone here would disagree with this.

 

[1Sun]

I don't think anyone here would disagree with this.

Then why aren't the Suns doing anything to address it?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Then why aren't the Suns doing anything to address it?

How do you know they aren't? Most of what's available and what has been available falls in the "just another guy" category and that's not what we want.

If we can't get better than that we'll probably settle for just a guy but there's no reason to fold this early. Certainly not while Young is still a possibility. And barring injury I don't see it costing us even if we have to wait through much of the season.