Roster ideas and rumors for Suns

[Hoop Head]

AZ Central has Hoops Hype rumor, Marvin Bagley for Jalen Smith. Don't like it, Bagley can't play defense, no outside shot and can't stay healthy. Smith is already a potential 3 & D PF.

I like it. Not that I'd care much if it didn't happen but Bagley has played alongside Ayton before, if I recall correctly, and a change of scenery could do him good. Jalen Smith needs a lot of work while Bagley could play now.

 

[Mainstreet]

AZ Central has Hoops Hype rumor, Marvin Bagley for Jalen Smith. Don't like it, Bagley can't play defense, no outside shot and can't stay healthy. Smith is already a potential 3 & D PF.

I think these are trade candidates selected by HoopsHype for each NBA team not actual rumors but I would probably trade Smith for Bagley. The Kings reportedly have turned down offers for Bagley. I think he has more value than Smith.

 

[Finito]

Bagley is in the bottom 2% of iso defenders and bottom 7% of overall defenders.

His offense isn’t good enough to make up for his ridiculously bad defense. I don’t know if his defense is that bad or he’s just quit.

And then there’s his injury history

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I’d consider it. Smith is a great big question mark who has limited athleticism. Bagley is definitely a reclamation project, but his athleticism is top shelf. Maybe playing with a friend (Ayton) on a team with expectations, with a players coach and with tough vets would turn him around. And he’s still young. Maybe worth the slight gamble.

 

[Yuma]

They have been working on Styx's shot a LOT. A lot of coaching investment.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They have been working on Styx's shot a LOT. A lot of coaching investment.

And he still bricked his 3 point attempt.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I’d consider it. Smith is a great big question mark who has limited athleticism. Bagley is definitely a reclamation project, but his athleticism is top shelf. Maybe playing with a friend (Ayton) on a team with expectations, with a players coach and with tough vets would turn him around. And he’s still young. Maybe worth the slight gamble.

The only thing I like better about Jalen Smith than Bagley is his attitude. If you could switch their personalities (mental/emotional makeup) I'd jump at a trade like this.

 

[Mainstreet]

The only thing I like better about Jalen Smith than Bagley is his attitude. If you could switch their personalities (mental/emotional makeup) I'd jump at a trade like this.

The thing the Suns would have going for them is Bagley was born in Arizona and attended one year of high school here as well. Also he has a brother (Marcus) who plays at ASU. Additionally he is the grandson of Joe Caldwell. Hopefully the local connections would help.

 

[Hoop Head]

The only thing I like better about Jalen Smith than Bagley is his attitude. If you could switch their personalities (mental/emotional makeup) I'd jump at a trade like this.

That's a little surprising. I remember liking Bagley a lot back when we were interviewing potential #1 picks. Not that I liked him more than Ayton but I remember being impressed by his interview. He ended up in Sacramento so I can't blame him for being a bit aloof nowadays. They've been a bigger joke than we have over the last dscade.

As long as picks aren't involved, or anymore than a 2nd rounder, then I don't see the real downside of a Bagley/Smith swap.

If Bagley does not exceed 2000 minutes played or 41 games started then his qualifying offer is cut in half also, only being around $7.5 million to retain the right to match any offers this summer.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's a little surprising. I remember liking Bagley a lot back when we were interviewing potential #1 picks. Not that I liked him more than Ayton but I remember being impressed by his interview. He ended up in Sacramento so I can't blame him for being a bit aloof nowadays. They've been a bigger joke than we have over the last dscade.

As long as picks aren't involved, or anymore than a 2nd rounder, then I don't see the real downside of a Bagley/Smith swap.

If Bagley does not exceed 2000 minutes played or 41 games started then his qualifying offer is cut in half also, only being around $7.5 million to retain the right to match any offers this summer.

I had no idea about that rule, interesting. I'm surprised the players union agreed to that swap, you'd think they would prefer a player who can't crack a rotation to be able to move on and try somewhere else.

That said, I think Bagley is trash. In Smith's limited playing time he has shown a willingness to defend, which is more than can be said for Bagley. I also don't think Sacramento would do that trade, supposedly when Bagley's name came up in trades this summer they were asking a high price.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's a little surprising. I remember liking Bagley a lot back when we were interviewing potential #1 picks. Not that I liked him more than Ayton but I remember being impressed by his interview. He ended up in Sacramento so I can't blame him for being a bit aloof nowadays. They've been a bigger joke than we have over the last dscade.

As long as picks aren't involved, or anymore than a 2nd rounder, then I don't see the real downside of a Bagley/Smith swap.

If Bagley does not exceed 2000 minutes played or 41 games started then his qualifying offer is cut in half also, only being around $7.5 million to retain the right to match any offers this summer.

I'm not at all up on the situation but from a distance it seems to me that Bagley feels entitled and he and his camp tend to blame his shortcomings on others.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm not at all up on the situation but from a distance it seems to me that Bagley feels entitled and he and his camp tend to blame his shortcomings on others.

If it is true that the Kings shut down contract negotiations AND they were not open to trade offers outside of premium value... and seeing as they are now not even putting him in the rotation... that's kinda unfair to Bagley.

To be clear, I think Bagley sucks out loud and doesn't belong in a rotation, but if that is how the Kings feel then they should have been willing to deal him. As it stands Bagley is in a situation where his team won't play him, doesn't seem to want to keep him long term but also won't let him go.

In short, the Kings are a terribly ran franchise. Their handling of Bagley and that they even drafted him #2 in the first place in THAT draft is comical.

 

[Hoop Head]

Bagley had a better year last year than I thought. He played in 43 games, starting 42. He averaged 25.9 minutes a night and scored 14.1 ppg with 7.4 rpg on 50.4% from the field while hitting 34.3% from 3 on 2.5 attempts a game. He shot 3.1 FT's a game but only hit 57.5%. He wasn't limited by foul trouble either, only 2.3 a game.

I'm not saying any of that is great but it's decent for a 3rd year PF in his first year as a starter.

Here's a look at his career stats compared to Ayton. I also included the per 36 and per 100 possessions since Ayton has played a lot more regularly than Bagley, who was a reserve his first 2 years. Despite being a reserve though Bagley still averages 14 ppg throughout his career.

You must be registered for see images attach

Here's a link to view them yourselves, and see a bit more like advanced stat comparisons.

Versus Finder | Player and Team Comparison and Head-to-Head Stats - Pro Basketball | Stathead.com

Versus Finder is a comparison tool by Stathead.com that lets you compare players and teams across basketball. If you're looking for head-to-head comparisons, the Versus Finder is your go-to tool

stathead.com

 

[Finito]

Bagley had a better year last year than I thought. He played in 43 games, starting 42. He averaged 25.9 minutes a night and scored 14.1 ppg with 7.4 rpg on 50.4% from the field while hitting 34.3% from 3 on 2.5 attempts a game. He shot 3.1 FT's a game but only hit 57.5%. He wasn't limited by foul trouble either, only 2.3 a game.

I'm not saying any of that is great but it's decent for a 3rd year PF in his first year as a starter.

Here's a look at his career stats compared to Ayton. I also included the per 36 and per 100 possessions since Ayton has played a lot more regularly than Bagley, who was a reserve his first 2 years. Despite being a reserve though Bagley still averages 14 ppg throughout his career.

You must be registered for see images attach

Here's a link to view them yourselves, and see a bit more like advanced stat comparisons.

Versus Finder | Player and Team Comparison and Head-to-Head Stats - Pro Basketball | Stathead.com

Versus Finder is a comparison tool by Stathead.com that lets you compare players and teams across basketball. If you're looking for head-to-head comparisons, the Versus Finder is your go-to tool

stathead.com

Just a question.

Do you consider 14 points on a non playoff team impressive?

And is it enough offense to make up for being one of the worst defenders in the NBA to be on the court.

 

[Hoop Head]

Just a question.

Do you consider 14 points on a non playoff team impressive?

And is it enough offense to make up for being one of the worst defenders in the NBA to be on the court.

I already said it's not great but it's decent. It all depends on the cost, if Sacramento would swap for Jalen Smith then I'd do that. He'd have a different role here than in Sacramento, better coaching, and defense oriented teammates.

Really not sure what you're getting at since I said almost all that already. I only compared his stats to Ayton to show how he compares to a young big. In no one way was I suggesting we replace Ayton with Bagley.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I already said it's not great but it's decent. It all depends on the cost, if Sacramento would swap for Jalen Smith then I'd do that. He'd have a different role here than in Sacramento, better coaching, and defense oriented teammates.

Really not sure what you're getting at since I said almost all that already. I only compared his stats to Ayton to show how he compares to a young big. In no one way was I suggesting we replace Ayton with Bagley.

On a pure talent basis, there is no comparison between him and Smith. If JJ feels this guy could fit in and turn it around with Phoenix it's an easy decision. But I can't see them swapping him for someone with a lower ceiling that still has a long way to go to reach that low ceiling.

 

[Mainstreet]

On a pure talent basis, there is no comparison between him and Smith. If JJ feels this guy could fit in and turn it around with Phoenix it's an easy decision. But I can't see them swapping him for someone with a lower ceiling that still has a long way to go to reach that low ceiling.

I'm not sure why the Kings would want to help the Suns. It would take something to sweeten the deal for them to even consider a Smith for Bagley trade.

 

[Finito]

I'm not sure why the Kings would want to help the Suns. It would take something to sweeten the deal for them to even consider a Smith for Bagley trade.

Idk maybe they just want to get rid of him everything coming out of Sac is that it’s gotten real bad between the two camps

 

[Covert Rain]

They have been working on Styx's shot a LOT. A lot of coaching investment.

With little return evidently. This is the year. If by year 3 he still can't play himself onto the court?!? It's time to move on. It's only been a few games but he still isn't playing. Swapping him for another player might not be a bad idea.

 

[Proximo]

AZ Central has Hoops Hype rumor, Marvin Bagley for Jalen Smith. Don't like it, Bagley can't play defense, no outside shot and can't stay healthy. Smith is already a potential 3 & D PF.

That's interesting. I think I like that idea. He is a young PF with potential.

The potential issues with Bagley is his attitude.

It's a gamble, but that seems like a good gamble to take.

 

[Proximo]

Just a question.

Do you consider 14 points on a non playoff team impressive?

And is it enough offense to make up for being one of the worst defenders in the NBA to be on the court.

I am not that worried about his defense - and here is why. Athletically he is very capable of playing good D. And those advanced stats don't suggest he is horrendus.

Put in the right environment, if he buys in his Defense will improve.

 

[Covert Rain]

Fourteen PPG game on a losing team is not impressive in itself but he earned his way onto the court to contribute regardless. To me if Jalen can't get off the bench this season (which it appears it's headed that way) how is this not a good move? I don't know why people think that in year 4 Jalen will somehow emerge into anything? How many players does it take until year 4 to sniff the court unless they are playing behind a star?

 

[Mainstreet]

Idk maybe they just want to get rid of him everything coming out of Sac is that it’s gotten real bad between the two camps

I'd take the gamble if the Suns could swing the right deal for Bagley. He might be their starting power forward down the road.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'd take the gamble if the Suns could swing the right deal for Bagley. He might be their starting power forward down the road.

This. I have seen nothing out of Jalen to suggest he will be anything other than a bench warmer. Why not take a gamble?

 

[Mainstreet]

This. I have seen nothing out of Jalen to suggest he will be anything other than a bench warmer. Why not take a gamble?

I'd roll the dice. I do see improvement with Smith but I think Bagley is further along and they could play him now.