Rumor? The Cardinals and CB Patrick Peterson are parting ways

[TJ]

What does why the trade came about matter to "locker room harmony" which is what the question was about? I'm not sure the other players care why they were traded.

Did I miss CJ getting us to the playoffs his previous 4 seasons? Saying we need him to get to the playoffs is ridiculous. What we need to get to the playoffs is a better team and to get a better team we need more picks and more cap space.
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The bolded would be applicable for a rebuilding team like the Jaguars, not a team in win-now mode like Arizona.

All-Pros on your team means you already have good players on your teams. More picks mean you have lottery tickets that may or may not have good players in a year or two.

You're not going to find a better player to win with today than Chandler Jones in free agency, and certainly not in the draft. You're just not.

 

[BritCard]

So are you saying that the sacks were sort of there for the taking and Reddick, Golden and Gardeck just took the sacks that Jones used to take?

I think what happened is we didn't have Jones so we had to look for other ways to manufacture sacks, and we actually hit on something that seemed to work. I suspect if we'd had a healthy Jones and done the same thing we might have had even more sacks because I think if he's in there he's either going to get more himself, or allow others to by drawing doubles. Even the first 4 games he was being doubled. 48 sacks was impressive without our best pass rusher.

To be fair 14 of those 48 were in 2 games against the Giants and Eagles with young QB's so might be overrating the pass rush

Definitely the 2nd option but I don't see how it matters. In fact I think it's much better we have a system that spreads the load around more rather than relying on one guy so much.

We had 2.75 sacks with him and 3.1 without him.

 

[BritCard]

The bolded would be applicable for a rebuilding team like the Jaguars, not a team in win-now mode like Arizona.

All-Pros on your team means you already have good players on your teams. More picks mean you have lottery tickets that may or may not have good players in a year or two.

You're not going to find a better player to win with today than Chandler Jones in free agency, and certainly not in the draft. You're just not.

How are we in win now mode without a winning season in 5 years? At the very best this roster is in "scrape into the playoffs and get beat in the wildcard" mode and looking at our schedule even that might be tough.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

People getting on Keim for not trading PP at this past deadline are just wrong. The team was looking every bit a playoff team and playing well. You don't trade your best CB in that situation. I guess Keim should have seen the collapse coming just like he should have known Alford was going to break his leg and tear a pec.

I hope PP returns but not at top money. Drafting Farley and having PP as the #2 CB would not be a bad thing. PP would probably be among the best #2's in the league.

I bet alot of the same people who want PP gone, want Larry back. Larry was MUCH worse than Peterson last year. Keim should have cut Larry's pay 3 years ago or sent him walking. But, if that happened, people would have been super PO'd.

I think people wanted him traded a year and a half ago when he asked for a trade.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

How are we in win now mode without a winning season in 5 years? At the very best this roster is in "scrape into the playoffs and get beat in the wildcard" mode and looking at our schedule even that might be tough.

Because a lot of people think our coach and GM's jobs are on the line? Pretty much one of the definitions of 'win now mode.'

 

[TJ]

How are we in win now mode without a winning season in 5 years? At the very best this roster is in "scrape into the playoffs and get beat in the wildcard" mode and looking at our schedule even that might be tough.

You're not making sense here. We were a game away from the playoffs. Even "scraping into the playoffs and getting beat in the wildcard" would be tangible progress.


You think Keim and Kliff survive this season without winning? You think Bidwil wants to oblterate the team right before fans are allowed back into the stadium?

 

[Russ Smith]

Definitely the 2nd option but I don't see how it matters. In fact I think it's much better we have a system that spreads the load around more rather than relying on one guy so much.

We had 2.75 sacks with him and 3.1 without him.

I agree I guess my point is if the system worked that well without him, and he's health(IF) then I suspect it will work even better with him.

I think TB showed in the SB that a really good pass rush will help a team that doesn't have a great secondary. Last year TB's secondary was terrible for much of the year. It got better because their pass rush did. This year both the pass rush and some of the guys back there got better, like Winfield.

Again I'm not saying one good draft and we're a SB team, lots of things have to go right for us. But we could have easily won 10 games even 11 this year with just a more reliable kicker. If some guys take a step up next year like Murray, Simmons, hopefully a healthy Jalen Thompson, and some guys come back healthy, jones, Gardeck. I think we can be easily better.

I think just by adding a guy like Waddle and basically standing pat the rest of the offense, we have a chance to get to 30PPG, we were trending that way for much of the season until Murray fell off after the Seattle game. I think we allowed 12 more points than TB this year, something like that, the difference was their offense.

My fear with Jones is we'll probably make the decison before we know if he's fully back

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Going into the season, CJ had the most sacks of any player in the NFL since his trade to AZ in 2016. I'd say he has the inside track for that distinction, no?

I'm not concerned about his injury. Biceps tears for pass rushers are not career killers like knee injuries.

I'm not going to discard an All-Pro's entire career over four bad games, and neither should anyone else.

I’m not looking to jettison CJ, but it’s fair to ask the question of a guy coming off injury, after a poor quarter of a season, who is on the wrong side of the preferred age equation.

 

[BritCard]

You think Keim and Kliff survive this season without winning?

Yes. This is Mike Bidwill. If there's one thing he's comfortable with it's mediocrity.

Anything 6 wins or over he stays for sure. Only 3 wins or less for sure gets him fired.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I’m not looking to jettison CJ, but it’s fair to ask the question of a guy coming off injury, after a poor quarter of a season, who is on the wrong side of the preferred age equation.

Exactly...bad teams pay a guy for what he's done, good teams pay guys for what they're going to do.

Going into the season, CJ had the most sacks of any player in the NFL since his trade to AZ in 2016. I'd say he has the inside track for that distinction, no?

Because he had the most sacks dating back 5 years ago? Further, I don't think anyone would argue that sacks alone determine the best pass rushers. Only a serious kool aid drinker would try to argue that Chandler Jones is the best pass rusher in football.

I'm not going to discard an All-Pro's entire career over four bad games, and neither should anyone else.

Great! So you propose we pay him a huge new contract into his mid 30's?

 

[daves]

They didn't add any major FA signings this year outside resigning their own guys and adding Brady.

Gronk, Antonio Brown, & Fournette scored all 4 TDs in the Super Bowl!

...dave

EDIT: just caught up on the rest of the thread & saw that a couple of people beat me to this point! Didn't mean to belabor it.

 

[BritCard]

Gronk, Antonio Brown, & Fournette scored all 4 TDs in the Super Bowl!

...dave

I missed Gronk but its not like their TEs sucked before. The others signed there after it was clear they were contenders.

 

[DVontel]

Going into the season, CJ had the most sacks of any player in the NFL since his trade to AZ in 2016. I'd say he has the inside track for that distinction, no?

I'm not concerned about his injury. Biceps tears for pass rushers are not career killers like knee injuries.

I'm not going to discard an All-Pro's entire career over four bad games, and neither should anyone else.

I’m not really on the side of wanting to get rid of CJ yet, but you gotta stop basing a player’s future because of what they did years ago.

 

[Russ Smith]

I missed Gronk but its not like their TEs sucked before. The others signed there after it was clear they were contenders.

Definintely the case with Fournette. he said after Jax waived him the first person to contact him was Tom Brady saying come play for us.

 

[TRW]

Conference or Division?

Oooops!!! Division.

 

[daves]

In regards to "Maybe we would have had more sacks with him". Well we didn't in the previous 4 seasons he was healthy so I don't see why we would last year.

Maybe because Redick emerged, Golden contributed, & Gardeck exploded in his small role?

...dave

 

[daves]

This team is has holes ALL OVER THE FIELD.

Wow, they must have a hell of a coaching staff to have gone 8-8 in one of the toughest divisions!

...dave

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

People getting on Keim for not trading PP at this past deadline are just wrong. The team was looking every bit a playoff team and playing well. You don't trade your best CB in that situation. I guess Keim should have seen the collapse coming just like he should have known Alford was going to break his leg and tear a pec.

I hope PP returns but not at top money. Drafting Farley and having PP as the #2 CB would not be a bad thing. PP would probably be among the best #2's in the league.

I bet alot of the same people who want PP gone, want Larry back. Larry was MUCH worse than Peterson last year. Keim should have cut Larry's pay 3 years ago or sent him walking. But, if that happened, people would have been super PO'd.

They would’ve gotten jack for him this past season. The time to deal him was coming off his suspension when teams were desperate for him offering first round ++ picks...

 

[TJ]

Because he had the most sacks dating back 5 years ago? Further, I don't think anyone would argue that sacks alone determine the best pass rushers. Only a serious kool aid drinker would try to argue that Chandler Jones is the best pass rusher in football.



Great! So you propose we pay him a huge new contract into his mid 30's?

So you’re saying that we shouldn’t be discussing whether or not Jones is the best pass rusher in the NFL, despite the fact that he routinely leads, or is near the top of the leaderboard, in the NFL in sacks? I’m fine with you disagreeing, but to label it “kool-aid” drinking is beyond foolish. You know better.

 

[TJ]

Because I’m in the mood for stirring the pot - Here’s my fire take for you all to chew on:

Those of you who are giving praise for other pass rushers getting sacks in Jones’s absence are also indirectly giving praise to Vance Joseph for putting them in position to do so. I mean, who had on their 2020 Cardinals Bingo Card Reddick having 12 sacks and Gardeck having the highest sack rate on the team?

 

[TJ]

I’m not really on the side of wanting to get rid of CJ yet, but you gotta stop basing a player’s future because of what they did years ago.

He had 19 sacks one year ago, was All-Pro, and was legitimately in the discussion for DPOY. We’re not discussing Terrell Suggs here

 

[ASUCHRIS]

He had 19 sacks one year ago, was All-Pro, and was legitimately in the discussion for DPOY. We’re not discussing Terrell Suggs here

Ok, so what do you propose we do with Jones? Sign him to a top dollar extension?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

So you’re saying that we shouldn’t be discussing whether or not Jones is the best pass rusher in the NFL, despite the fact that he routinely leads, or is near the top of the leaderboard, in the NFL in sacks?

You can talk about it all you want. You'll get laughed at by any non Cards fan by trying to make the argument that he had a lot of sacks 2 years ago. (and frankly, I don't care what he did two years ago - again, you pay for what he's going to do, not what he's done)

You should know better that total sack #'s are a small window in terms of determining how effective a pass rusher is. Jones is a good player, but if your argument is "he's the best because he has the most sacks", you're already in a tough spot.

 

[football karma]

You can talk about it all you want. You'll get laughed at by any non Cards fan by trying to make the argument that he had a lot of sacks 2 years ago. (and frankly, I don't care what he did two years ago - again, you pay for what he's going to do, not what he's done)

by this standard, Nick Bosa is.........?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

by this standard, Nick Bosa is.........?

By what standard, judging by sacks alone? Pretty much the only argument you can make for Chandler Jones being the best pass rusher in football, and a weak one.

Here's some insight into 2019 #'s that goes beyond simple sack totals - https://www.nfl.com/news/myles-garrett-nick-bosa-among-nfl-s-top-10-best-disruptors-of-2019