Ryan Williams is this year's 2nd round pick.

[Dr. Jones]

agreed.

Ditto

 

[1DS]

I think anythng we get out of Williams should be considered a bonus and the Cards should look at bringing in a veteran RB as an insurance policy. A guy like Sammy Morris, Joseph Addai or Ryan Grant would fit the bill.

I'd take Hightower back over any one of them.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Vinny Curry WILL be a good DE. It will take time but the kid can rush the passer.

So could Vernon Gholston in college.

 

[THESMEL]

Ryan Williams > Dan Williams? maybe ? you guys sure Leinart wasn't the most talented guy on our team- I mean beyond QB?

 

[Darkside]

Ryan Williams > Dan Williams? maybe ? you guys sure Leinart wasn't the most talented guy on our team- I mean beyond QB?

I don't know why it has to always come down to Leinart with you Thesmel. You made, in my opinion, a fantastic post with your "Grades without personality" post, but you always have to ruin it by harping on Leinart incessantly. I respect your posts, and I think it's lame when people dogpile you, because everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you have to give Leinart a rest.

Nobody denies that Leinart had talent. I think most people wanted him to succeed. Some people wanted him to succeed just as bad as you. But there's a lot more that goes into playing QB and you know that. It comes down to work ethic, to study, to camaraderie (as a QB you have to have the support and respect of your teammates), to leadership ability, to physical ability. He had talent but none of the rest. Injuries, teammates didn't respect him, lack of work ethic, whined to the media. Those are all minuses in all those areas. Yes, he had talent, you can even grade him at a 98 or whatever you give him, but without the rest of it he's nothing.

Let it go with Leinart man, he's gone. We all wished he would have panned out for us but he didn't. It doesn't even matter if he kicks ass with the Raiders and wins like 5 games, we don't even care anymore because he's GONE.

I know this post is for naught, because you just won't get it. You're going to come back with some stats or some anecdotes about how the yellow brick road runs through Raider Nation and we missed the bong hot-tub party but I'm telling you we don't care anymore. HE'S GONE.

You're a good poster and it's obvious you care, but you gotta give up on the Leinart love dude. It lessens every other post you make and I wish you could understand that. You undermine your own value every time you do it.

 

[Longcolts]

I don't know why it has to always come down to Leinart with you Thesmel. You made, in my opinion, a fantastic post with your "Grades without personality" post, but you always have to ruin it by harping on Leinart incessantly. I respect your posts, and I think it's lame when people dogpile you, because everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you have to give Leinart a rest.

Nobody denies that Leinart had talent. I think most people wanted him to succeed. Some people wanted him to succeed just as bad as you. But there's a lot more that goes into playing QB and you know that. It comes down to work ethic, to study, to camaraderie (as a QB you have to have the support and respect of your teammates), to leadership ability, to physical ability. He had talent but none of the rest. Injuries, teammates didn't respect him, lack of work ethic, whined to the media. Those are all minuses in all those areas. Yes, he had talent, you can even grade him at a 98 or whatever you give him, but without the rest of it he's nothing.

Let it go with Leinart man, he's gone. We all wished he would have panned out for us but he didn't. It doesn't even matter if he kicks ass with the Raiders and wins like 5 games, we don't even care anymore because he's GONE.

I know this post is for naught, because you just won't get it. You're going to come back with some stats or some anecdotes about how the yellow brick road runs through Raider Nation and we missed the bong hot-tub party but I'm telling you we don't care anymore. HE'S GONE.

You're a good poster and it's obvious you care, but you gotta give up on the Leinart love dude. It lessens every other post you make and I wish you could understand that. You undermine your own value every time you do it.

Well said Darkside.

 

[1DS]

I don't know why it has to always come down to Leinart with you Thesmel. You made, in my opinion, a fantastic post with your "Grades without personality" post, but you always have to ruin it by harping on Leinart incessantly. I respect your posts, and I think it's lame when people dogpile you, because everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you have to give Leinart a rest.

Nobody denies that Leinart had talent. I think most people wanted him to succeed. Some people wanted him to succeed just as bad as you. But there's a lot more that goes into playing QB and you know that. It comes down to work ethic, to study, to camaraderie (as a QB you have to have the support and respect of your teammates), to leadership ability, to physical ability. He had talent but none of the rest. Injuries, teammates didn't respect him, lack of work ethic, whined to the media. Those are all minuses in all those areas. Yes, he had talent, you can even grade him at a 98 or whatever you give him, but without the rest of it he's nothing.

Let it go with Leinart man, he's gone. We all wished he would have panned out for us but he didn't. It doesn't even matter if he kicks ass with the Raiders and wins like 5 games, we don't even care anymore because he's GONE.

I know this post is for naught, because you just won't get it. You're going to come back with some stats or some anecdotes about how the yellow brick road runs through Raider Nation and we missed the bong hot-tub party but I'm telling you we don't care anymore. HE'S GONE.

You're a good poster and it's obvious you care, but you gotta give up on the Leinart love dude. It lessens every other post you make and I wish you could understand that. You undermine your own value every time you do it.

Wait. I missed the bong and hot-tub party? Damnit.

 

[Longcolts]

Wait. I missed the bong and hot-tub party? Damnit.

You know what they say! You snooze you lose!

 

[MrYeahBut]

SMEL, maybe if you asked Cheesebeef really nicely, he would write some new material
for you.

I too, enjoy reading some of your stuff..... just change it up a little, get your haircut at a different shop, eat some scrambled eggs instead of fried, mix in a salad once in a while, get a new script writer as I just suggested.....

You are rotting your own brain....and mine too, I might add.


We have most all moved on from the Leinart thing... hell I was elated when he was
drafted, but I let it go.

please, and don't do it for me....do it for you


.

 

[Phrazbit]

So you're saying if Kolb becomes a top 12 QB this year(not saying he will but for arguments sake), DRC continues to do his best Eric Green impression, and Vinny Curry never makes a play for Philly, that it was still a bad trade? .

Lets say you're hungry and you have plenty of options but you're craving a burger and someone offers you a Big Mac of questionable quality in exchange for 100 dollars.

Is that a good deal?

I am being facetious, but the point is we paid through the nose for something no one else was pursuing. And on top of it all... the thing we got turned out to suck.

 

[Phrazbit]

He'll tell you it was a bad trade at the time even if Kolb becomes the greatest QB of all time. Pbit is convinced that we were the only team foolish enough to want him so there was no reason to meet Philly's demands.

Steve

Damn straight.

By the logic C-Bus is trying to employ trading the 1st overall pick for a future 7th rounder is a great trade if the 7th rounder ends up being the better player. Trades (especially at the time they are consummated) are about value, and the Cards took it in the can. They traded valuable assets for something that no one outside of Arizona or Philly seemed to care about. And then the player proved to everyone why other teams were not interested when he went out and sucked... and got injured, all while the Cards handed him a contract in-line with their grossly misguided view of his "value".

 

[Shane]

Lets say you're hungry and you have plenty of options but you're craving a burger and someone offers you a Big Mac of questionable quality in exchange for 100 dollars.

Is that a good deal?

I am being facetious, but the point is we paid through the nose for something no one else was pursuing. And on top of it all... the thing we got turned out to suck.

Your hatred and complete bias won't even let you answer the question. Its pathetic really. The answer to his question is yes BTW it will have turned out to be a good trade. No matter how much you will refuse to own up to it. .

 

[Phrazbit]

Your hatred and complete bias won't even let you answer the question. Its pathetic really. The answer to his question is yes BTW it will have turned out to be a good trade. No matter how much you will refuse to own up to it. .

Yes, if he turned out to be a great great player I'd be happy, but it wouldnt change that the Cards handled the trade negotiations stupidly. THAT was my point.

 

[Longcolts]

Yes, if he turned out to be a great great player I'd be happy, but it wouldnt change that the Cards handled the trade negotiations stupidly. THAT was my point.

If he turns out to be the quarterback that the Cards hoped he could/would be then not only was it worth DRC, whom would've (IMO) never survived in Hortons system, along with the 2d round pick. As far as the contract goes if Kolb turns out this year to be the quarterback the Cards hoped he could/would be then the financial value is fair for a starting Quarterback in the NFL.

You're argument is based on nothing more than your hatred of Kolb, plain and simple in my eyes.

 

[Phrazbit]

If he turns out to be the quarterback that the Cards hoped he could/would be then not only was it worth DRC, whom would've (IMO) never survived in Hortons system, along with the 2d round pick. As far as the contract goes if Kolb turns out this year to be the quarterback the Cards hoped he could/would be then the financial value is fair for a starting Quarterback in the NFL.

You're argument is based on nothing more than your hatred of Kolb, plain and simple in my eyes.

Fine. I hated the trade back when it was a rumor last March, I hated it even more when the perimeters started coming out and I was even more disgusted when it became abundantly clear the Cardinals were the only team interested. I am biased against Kolb because no other move in recent memory annoyed me more than this one and watching him lay a big turd on the field for 8 games pushed my dislike even further.

However, in terms of the trade itself the Cards negotiated against themselves, its pretty hard to dispute that point. Even if you ignore that time is heavy pointing to the Cards getting fleeced it was easy to say that the Cards got hosed the moment the trade went down because we took something from the Eagles that they were desperate to trade and that no one else wanted.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Fine. I hated the trade back when it was a rumor last March, I hated it even more when the perimeters started coming out and I was even more disgusted when it became abundantly clear the Cardinals were the only team interested. I am biased against Kolb because no other move in recent memory annoyed me more than this one and watching him lay a big turd on the field for 8 games pushed my dislike even further.

However, in terms of the trade itself the Cards negotiated against themselves, its pretty hard to dispute that point. Even if you ignore that time is heavy pointing to the Cards getting fleeced it was easy to say that the Cards got hosed the moment the trade went down because we took something from the Eagles that they were desperate to trade and that no one else wanted.

At least you finally admitted it. The fact is, as of now, no one got fleeced in either direction because all players have performed at far lower levels that expected. Right now it's a nothing trade. You keep basing your argument on your perceived value and not actual performance value. To use you earlier analogy, I would absolutely make the trade every time if i KNEW the 7th round pick would out perform the 1st round pick. Why wouldn't I? The point is the perceived value of the 1st pick is greater because we don't know how it will turn out and it's more LIKELY the 1st player is better.

 

[52brandon]

At least you finally admitted it. The fact is, as of now, no one got fleeced in either direction because all players have performed at far lower levels that expected. Right now it's a nothing trade. You keep basing your argument on your perceived value and not actual performance value. To use you earlier analogy, I would absolutely make the trade every time if i KNEW the 7th round pick would out perform the 1st round pick. Why wouldn't I? The point is the perceived value of the 1st pick is greater because we don't know how it will turn out and it's more LIKELY the 1st player is better.

I have no complaints with the trade itself. But the contract makes no sense. The only way it makes sense is if it was in order to extend Fitz. I do hope he plays well with no injuries though. Just wanna win lol

 

[Phrazbit]

At least you finally admitted it. The fact is, as of now, no one got fleeced in either direction because all players have performed at far lower levels that expected. Right now it's a nothing trade. You keep basing your argument on your perceived value and not actual performance value. To use you earlier analogy, I would absolutely make the trade every time if i KNEW the 7th round pick would out perform the 1st round pick. Why wouldn't I? The point is the perceived value of the 1st pick is greater because we don't know how it will turn out and it's more LIKELY the 1st player is better.

When did I ever deny how much I despise the trade?

What the Eagles get out of the pick is irrelevant because its almost certainly not who the Cardinals would have taken, and its completely arbitrary to my point because I was talking about their value at the time of the trade and how the Cardinals handled the negotiations, not how things look down the road.

And even IF we include down the road, the road is currently pointing towards Kolb being cut within the next 12 months and its virtually impossible to make a case that a 2nd round pick, DRC and roughly 30 million in sunk costs, not to mention 2 wasted seasons, somehow constitutes a win for the Cards.

We got fleeced, denial does not change anything. Andy Ried is making a tradition out of pawning off his junk QBs on other teams. In 3 years he will probably ship Nick Foles to the LA Vikings for 2 2nd round picks and a lifetime supply of Chicken and waffles.

 

[Longcolts]

Fine. I hated the trade back when it was a rumor last March, I hated it even more when the perimeters started coming out and I was even more disgusted when it became abundantly clear the Cardinals were the only team interested. I am biased against Kolb because no other move in recent memory annoyed me more than this one and watching him lay a big turd on the field for 8 games pushed my dislike even further.

However, in terms of the trade itself the Cards negotiated against themselves, its pretty hard to dispute that point. Even if you ignore that time is heavy pointing to the Cards getting fleeced it was easy to say that the Cards got hosed the moment the trade went down because we took something from the Eagles that they were desperate to trade and that no one else wanted.

Ok, It's more than just a tad difficult to have a logical discussion when one of the parties won't consider any logic. Since you feel so strongly about this how about you cease shoving your view down our throats at ever chance you get. We all know how you feel about the situation there's no need to bring up your same points post after post.

 

[Phrazbit]

Ok, It's more than just a tad difficult to have a logical discussion when one of the parties won't consider any logic. Since you feel so strongly about this how about you cease shoving your view down our throats at ever chance you get. We all know how you feel about the situation there's no need to bring up your same points post after post.

lol, wont consider any logic? We are talking about the terms of the trade as things stood when it was consummated. The "logic" being used against my point involves a fantasy scenario where Kolb becomes an elite and healthy player. I'm looking at reality. The Cardinals paid a premium for a player no one else was pursuing and that the Eagles were desperate to move. No matter what the context its bad business. And that COMPLETELY ignores his current status as an abject failure.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

When did I ever deny how much I despise the trade?

What the Eagles get out of the pick is irrelevant because its almost certainly not who the Cardinals would have taken, and its completely arbitrary to my point because I was talking about their value at the time of the trade and how the Cardinals handled the negotiations, not how things look down the road.

And even IF we include down the road, the road is currently pointing towards Kolb being cut within the next 12 months and its virtually impossible to make a case that a 2nd round pick, DRC and roughly 30 million in sunk costs, not to mention 2 wasted seasons, somehow constitutes a win for the Cards.

We got fleeced, denial does not change anything. Andy Ried is making a tradition out of pawning off his junk QBs on other teams. In 3 years he will probably ship Nick Foles to the LA Vikings for 2 2nd round picks and a lifetime supply of Chicken and waffles.

You can make your case without making up numbers. If Kolb is is released at the end of the 2012 season, he will have cost $20.5M (total).

 

[Longcolts]

lol, wont consider any logic? We are talking about the terms of the trade as things stood when it was consummated. The "logic" being used against my point involves a fantasy scenario where Kolb becomes an elite and healthy player. I'm looking at reality. The Cardinals paid a premium for a player no one else was pursuing and that the Eagles were desperate to move. No matter what the context its bad business. And that COMPLETELY ignores his current status as an abject failure.

Guess from now on we'll just have to have the Cards front office contact you prior to doing any trades and having contracts signed to make sure they meet with your approval.

 

[Phrazbit]

You can make your case without making up numbers. If Kolb is is released at the end of the 2012 season, he will have cost $20.5M (total).

My mistake. Thank you for the correction. There more than enough ammo to blast towards Kolb and my exaggeration was unnecessary.

 

[Phrazbit]

Guess from now on we'll just have to have the Cards front office contact you prior to doing any trades and having contracts signed to make sure they meet with your approval.

Thanks for sticking with the logic theme you attempted to call me out on.

I was not alone in my opinion at the time and the Cards were not the first team to get hosed by Andy Ried pawning off a garbage QB.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Damn straight.

By the logic C-Bus is trying to employ trading the 1st overall pick for a future 7th rounder is a great trade if the 7th rounder ends up being the better player. Trades (especially at the time they are consummated) are about value, and the Cards took it in the can. They traded valuable assets for something that no one outside of Arizona or Philly seemed to care about. And then the player proved to everyone why other teams were not interested when he went out and sucked... and got injured, all while the Cards handed him a contract in-line with their grossly misguided view of his "value".

Could you direct me to reputable reports that no team other than the Cards had an interest in acquiring Kolb?