Same ole' Cardinals

[Skkorpion]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. The day before training camp starts, the Cards have three holdouts and three players who might not have had surgery early enough and several more with injuries of uncertain severity.

All June and July I warned about the holdout possibilities and now I can tell you why I was worried. It's because Michael Bidwill is involved. He has a reputation as an intransigent and difficult negotiator.

Is it fair? Nobody knows but Michael has often pissed off politicians and the Fiesta Bowl people and other business men in these parts with his pushy, overbearing methods.

All top contracts go through Michael, in my opinion. Eugene Parker, The Postons, and Rosenhaus may well be aware that Idzik and Graves don't have final say. That's not unusual - my guess is a majority of owners keep a sharp eye on the top contracts. But if that's true, the agents may well be waiting until Michael gets directly involved in the negotiations before they show their true deal parameters.

Then Renaldo Hill, Fred Wakefield and one other whose name escapes me, all had wrist surgeries late in May or June and might not be ready to go.

LJ Shelton, Duane Starks, Bryant Johnson, and Dexter Jackson all have injury concerns the severity of which is unknown.

Have we ever had three draft pick holdouts in the 17 years we've had the Cards here? Have we ever had so many injury unknowns? Maybe, but all in the same year?

Things can change quickly but right now, looks like the same ole' Cards to me.

 

[red desert]

I feel your pain, Skkorp.

 

[AZCB34]

While I am not quite as worried as you seem to be, this is beginning to become troubling. The Cards cannot afford holdouts from 3 players from whom alot is expected. It is crunch time now and I wonder if the Cards will have their top 3 picks holding out into the opening of camp.

And before anyone comes along and mentions other teams holdouts, please reveiw the past histories, recordwise, of these teams compared to the Cards. The Cards MUST be different and get their guys in and developing/contributing before the rest of the league.

 

[az jam]

Interesting. Denny never had any real holdout problems in Minnesota. Of course, he did eventually run personnel and addition to being head coach. We will soon know how much influence he really has with the Cards. It may all fall into place in the next 24 hrs. (hopefully)

 

[nidan]

Things can change quickly but right now, looks like the same ole' Cards to me.

The cup is half empty ?

What about last year, did we have any significant hold outs then ?

 

[KAZ]

DOOMED...we are all DOOMED.


There are no holdouts yet.

Has training camp started?...soon, but not quite yet.

It looks like rain, but the clouds still have a few miles to travel before they are directly overhead.

Go Cardinals.

KAZ

 

[Skkorpion]

No, the cup is not half empty. No, we are not doomed. But, right now, at this moment, things could be a lot better. This is a bad way to start camp.

 

[Stout]

No, the cup is not half empty. No, we are not doomed. But, right now, at this moment, things could be a lot better. This is a bad way to start camp.

I'm with you, Skkorp.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Having players in camp on time and healthy shouldn't be an option; it should always be the case. I understand that certain agents are difficult to deal with, but from what we know, negotiations could have been started much earlier. In the end, the team generally caves, and then the player joins the team, doesn't know the system, and gets a nagging hamstring/conditioning injury. Not getting these players to camp in time is almost always a wasted season. Hopefully, these players will all sign in the next few days, but at this point, it seems unlikely.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

In addition to this, I think most of us are expecting major contributions from Fitz, Dockett and Dansby. Any prolonged holdout will make that less and less likely, and will negate the value of their added depth.

 

[slanidrac16]

Ironic.

Half of the people on this sight predict 6 to 7 wins and yet we sit here and see this great and impending doom as camp is about to open because 3 players aren't signed.
The same thing goes for Wakefield and Hill. Half our posters don't think Hill or Wakefield should be starting.
We have 6 weeks to go before the season starts.

It's a little too early to be calling them "the same ole Cards".

 

[AzCards06]

As long as Dockett and Dansby are in Flagstaff by lights out on Monday, we'll be fine.

Fitzgerald's ahead of the rookie curve in terms of learning what the NFL is all about, so I'll give him a week to get in camp. The Mannings screwed up our negotiations on draft day, so it looks like we're caught up in the Chargers deal with Rivers.

You can't blame Bidwill for being a skilled negotiator, can you?

As long as it's not at the cost of holdouts from the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Half of the people on this sight predict 6 to 7 wins and yet we sit here and see this great and impending doom as camp is about to open because 3 players aren't signed.
The same thing goes for Wakefield and Hill. Half our posters don't think Hill or Wakefield should be starting.
We have 6 weeks to go before the season starts.

It's a little too early to be calling them "the same ole Cards".

It doesn't concern you that Shelton, Starks, Fitz, Johnson, Jackson, and Dockett, all starters, and with injury or contract concerns are not guarantees to participate completely through training camp isn't at least a minor concern? And Hill, our top nickel back, and Dansby another player counted on to contribute are uncertain? As soon as I heard about the agents of these rookies, and the injury to Johnson, I started getting that sick feeling....hopefully this storm blows by, but I guess we'll all see how it plays out.

 

[joeshmo]

Half of the people on this sight predict 6 to 7 wins and yet we sit here and see this great and impending doom as camp is about to open because 3 players aren't signed.
The same thing goes for Wakefield and Hill. Half our posters don't think Hill or Wakefield should be starting.
We have 6 weeks to go before the season starts.

It's a little too early to be calling them "the same ole Cards".

 

[slanidrac16]

It doesn't concern you that Shelton, Starks, Fitz, Johnson, Jackson, and Dockett, all starters, and with injury or contract concerns are not guarantees to participate completely through training camp isn't at least a minor concern? And Hill, our top nickel back, and Dansby another player counted on to contribute are uncertain? As soon as I heard about the agents of these rookies, and the injury to Johnson, I started getting that sick feeling....hopefully this storm blows by, but I guess we'll all see how it plays out.

Did not say it wasn't a concern, I just don't think I'm ready to pull up the stakes, fold the tent and call it a season quite yet.
Remember, all the players mention except for Dockett who has yet to play one down and Starks who hasn't played in what seems like 5 years were here last season and we went 4-12 with them.
Am I concerned, yes. But there is 6 long weeks before the season starts. If Fitz misses a week of camp I don't think it will spell doom for the upcoming season. I also highly doubt that Dansby or Dockett will be starters by opening day.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

It doesn't concern you that Shelton, Starks, Fitz, Johnson, Jackson, and Dockett, all starters, and with injury or contract concerns are not guarantees to participate completely through training camp isn't at least a minor concern? And Hill, our top nickel back, and Dansby another player counted on to contribute are uncertain? As soon as I heard about the agents of these rookies, and the injury to Johnson, I started getting that sick feeling....hopefully this storm blows by, but I guess we'll all see how it plays out.

Maybe Skkorp is trying to invoke the anti-curse.

 

[football24/7]

Camp starts Monday. If the big three are still absent by the following Monday, then its a big deal to me. Missing one or two days does not concern me that much. This is a 6 week process, with the vast majority of nothing but the X's and O's. Everyone will be there, dont worry. The biggest concern for me is getting through the pre-season with no major injuries. Green will get this team mentally and physically ready to play. A .500 record would be great for this year, and next year is our time to make that big jump.

 

[Cards_superbowl_bound]

It doesn't concern you that Shelton, Starks, Fitz, Johnson, Jackson, and Dockett, all starters, and with injury or contract concerns are not guarantees to participate completely through training camp isn't at least a minor concern? And Hill, our top nickel back, and Dansby another player counted on to contribute are uncertain? As soon as I heard about the agents of these rookies, and the injury to Johnson, I started getting that sick feeling....hopefully this storm blows by, but I guess we'll all see how it plays out.

this concerns as much as u and now im kinda scared cause i did not know about all these injuries befroe : / i hope that they some how get better and we get picks in.

 

[WildBB]

This time next week we'll really see the big picture better. Fitzgerald better be signed by next weekend. They have no excuses this year. They have a new coach and a new start. We'll truely see if they are sincere about turning things around now. They have the new statium on the way, they're out of excuses. !

 

[Skkorpion]

I actually agree with wildbb and football 24/7. A week from now we'll have a better idea of how this team is shaping up. So much instruction has already occurred with the two extra minicamps that part of the team will be ready.

Unfortunately, lots of injured players and all the rookies missed the last two minicamps so they have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[ajcardfan]

There has been only two times in the last ten years, that I can recall, where our entire draft class was in camp on time.

1997 - Tom Knight top pick Record: 4-12

2000 - Tom Jones top pick Record: 3-13

So, why should I get that worked up over whether every player is there from day 1, or not? I got excited both of those years, and will not make that mistake again.

 

[Brevity]

2000 - Tom Jones top pick Record: 3-13

When I first read this I thought of the singer.

"It's not unusual to go out with anyone...!"

 

[jstadvl]

I talked with

Wakefield Sat. night (tonight), he says he's got an evaluation Sun. on the wrist. I asked him how he felt and he said he was ready to go. He said the reason everyone is so concerned is because the three of the guys that had the same surgery are all re-habbing at different rates. He, however, didn't seem concerned with it.
As for the three draft picks, this is just imo, they will all be in camp within a week.
These are NOT the same ol' Cards. Mike Bidwill is doing everything he can to bring respectability to this franchise and put a winning team on the field.
I'm willing to bet that by the end of this season noone is laughing at us anymore.
GO CARDS! GIMME RED!

 

[40yearfan]

Maybe a little adversity right now wouldn't hurt this team. It would sure tell us who the real players are. During the season, there's going to be bumps and bruises and players sitting out ocassionally. Let's find out now how much depth this team has. We might get a pleasant surprise.

 

[joeshmo]

The only thing that semi-concerns me is the draft picks. A lot of things change once the first practice roles around. Negotiations that seemed to be hostile the day before turn into done deals and hand shakes the next day. But they sure are cutting it close.

As for the so called injuries that we dont even know the extent of yet. It isnt the "same old cards" it is the "same old NFL". After reading the KFFL hot off the wire section for the last 3 days it is riddled with every team putting guys on the PUP list, teams holding out guys from practice, lowering a players participation level, players getting injured, ect.

I will wait to get worried about the injuries once preseason roles around.