Sarver: Dragic called me and apologized for his comments about the Suns

[elindholm]

Okay, I'll admit I can't always track of who says what, but I'm about 95% sure that some of you who are committing Dragic all to hell for bad-mouthing the Suns have long since forgiven Tucker for driving with a BAC of four times the legal limit. So which one is the real transgression, and which one should we just shrug off as having done no real damage?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Okay, I'll admit I can't always track of who says what, but I'm about 95% sure that some of you who are committing Dragic all to hell for bad-mouthing the Suns have long since forgiven Tucker for driving with a BAC of four times the legal limit. So which one is the real transgression, and which one should we just shrug off as having done no real damage?

I would say that Goran hurt us more but Tucker crossed a far more important line. I can see how Dragic got to where he was and I can understand what led him to make his comments (or what I believe led him) but time hasn't changed anything for me with Tucker, what he did was inexcusable.

I'd be absolutely fine if we lived in a world with no second chances for something like this. You drive drunk, you never drive again. Any damage you do should be treated as intentional. You kill someone, that should be treated as premeditated murder. And the same for texting. You get caught texting and driving, you never drive again. And so on.

Steve

 

[Bert]

What was scorched earth about Frye?

All I have heard anyone in the organization say about him all season is; "We miss Channing, he created space on the board for our PG's to work."

 

[sunsfan88]

What was scorched earth about Frye?

All I have heard anyone in the organization say about him all season is; "We miss Channing, he created space on the board for our PG's to work."

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3140092&postcount=122

 

[3rdside]

You've got to be kidding. You've made incredible leaps and incredible claims. Not the least of which is pretty much putting any of us that disagree in the "Dragic haters" box. I think the Suns did what was best for them and I do not believe they mistreated Goran in any way, shape or form.

I believe that Goran, whether pushed by his wife or his agent or the son of his agent decided to make it all about him and he screwed us in the process. I don't think McDonough screwed this up at all. I'd rather the front office had just sidestepped the issue about Goran when asked but it wasn't my integrity called into question so it's easy for me to say they should have just smiled and let it go.

Steve

This is the second time I've been accused of making 'incredible leaps and assumptions' in the last week or so so let me run through what I said so that I don't falsely get accused of it again.

1. Miami is a nice city with great weather on the East coast that's nearer eastern europe that have won 2 titles of late.
This is fact.

2. Goran has no Bosh for now - bad luck for him as he'll probably get paid less than if Bosh was there to help him.
Bosh is out for the rest of the season so if we can agree that Dragic "probably plays better with a P&R player" (e.g. Dragic with Frye and / or Bosh) and that point guards "probably produce better output when playing with better players" (e.g. Dragic with / without Bledsoe or Dragic with / without Bosh) then I don't think it's an assumption to say "Dragic is unlucky to be without Bosh" as he will probably produce less without him. And as the NBA (and the real world) will logically reward individuals with higher pay for higher production then what I said is more a logical statement than an assumption - agreed?

3. Either way, i'd bet that Goran stays with Miami this offseason on a smaller contract regardless because he would have given his word to Miami. Just my view but I bet it's true....
Saying "i'd bet he stays in Miami" is just that - a bet, not an assumption. I have proposed a 'record of forecasts' for this board so that we might work out, over time, who is best at 'forecasting outcomes'. Anyway, it's a bet and it's on the record.


4. ...from all accounts he took less money to rejoin the suns the second time round....

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2014/2/4/5376198/year-dragon-evolution-phoenix-suns-star-goran-dragic

I accept it's not the clearest proof - the article simply refers to "a favourable deal for the suns" - but the general consensus from the internet is that we got a great "home town" deal. I post this article not only because of this reference but also because of its comment about Blanks' "basketball genius"; an ironic statement if there ever was one.

To sum up; from all sources I've read, Dragic taking less money is more likely to be fact than assumption.

5. ...because he wants to be in a good situation more than anything else.
Again, I'm not sure that there's any proof he wanted to be traded to losing teams but the Lakers and Heat, while not being great now, aren't long-term losing clubs (the Suns aren't either but based on recent events i.e. during the "Sarver without Nash" era are, unfortunately, heading in that direction), while the Knicks definitely are a losing club but they are a big market, attractive club and does anyone really think Jackson won't turn it around? There's a guy who's better than 50/50 to succeed, even though it won't happen over night. Dragic is not old so would have had plenty of time to grow with them while being the lead guard.

So Steve - unless I'm missing something, are you able to retract your view that I've made "incredible leaps and incredible claims"?

 

[3rdside]

I see why he did he did... because he is selfish. I can forgive selfish, there are a lot of selfish guys who still contribute in great ways, but to the rip the organization in public for not coddling your selfish tendencies? Its garbage. And said ripping took place as the Suns were in the process of granting him his wish. Seriously, its absolute trash.

The Suns, in no vague terms, we accused of being liars in public. Most teams would answer those types of accusations and really, what did the Suns say. That Goran was more focused on his own role and status than trying to be part of a winning team. Pretty hard to deny that fact. They could have undoubtedly aired plenty of more dirty laundry, but they merely answered what they were accused of.

The more I think about it - actually, more likely after yesterday's (further) embarrassment - Dragic's poor, selfish behaviour was effectively Newton's 3rd law of Motion in action; when one body (the Suns) exerts a force on a second body, the second body (Dragic) simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Dragic I guess.

Your comment in bold is clearly an attempt to paint the Suns as a moral high ground victim, not a bad ball club / bad decision perpetrator. Perspective is a funny thing.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Okay, I'll admit I can't always track of who says what, but I'm about 95% sure that some of you who are committing Dragic all to hell for bad-mouthing the Suns have long since forgiven Tucker for driving with a BAC of four times the legal limit. So which one is the real transgression, and which one should we just shrug off as having done no real damage?

Apples and Oranges. Dragic was trying to get off the team and hold it hostage to meet his own demands.

Tucker did something stupid, dangerous, and potentially fatal for someone else. I assume he was repentant for it and getting help. Tucker, however, did not find a way to blame his horrible transgression on Suns mgmt.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This is the second time I've been accused of making 'incredible leaps and assumptions' in the last week or so so let me run through what I said so that I don't falsely get accused of it again.

1. Miami is a nice city with great weather on the East coast that's nearer eastern europe that have won 2 titles of late.
This is fact.

2. Goran has no Bosh for now - bad luck for him as he'll probably get paid less than if Bosh was there to help him.
Bosh is out for the rest of the season so if we can agree that Dragic "probably plays better with a P&R player" (e.g. Dragic with Frye and / or Bosh) and that point guards "probably produce better output when playing with better players" (e.g. Dragic with / without Bledsoe or Dragic with / without Bosh) then I don't think it's an assumption to say "Dragic is unlucky to be without Bosh" as he will probably produce less without him. And as the NBA (and the real world) will logically reward individuals with higher pay for higher production then what I said is more a logical statement than an assumption - agreed?

3. Either way, i'd bet that Goran stays with Miami this offseason on a smaller contract regardless because he would have given his word to Miami. Just my view but I bet it's true....
Saying "i'd bet he stays in Miami" is just that - a bet, not an assumption. I have proposed a 'record of forecasts' for this board so that we might work out, over time, who is best at 'forecasting outcomes'. Anyway, it's a bet and it's on the record.


4. ...from all accounts he took less money to rejoin the suns the second time round....

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2014/2/4/5376198/year-dragon-evolution-phoenix-suns-star-goran-dragic

I accept it's not the clearest proof - the article simply refers to "a favourable deal for the suns" - but the general consensus from the internet is that we got a great "home town" deal. I post this article not only because of this reference but also because of its comment about Blanks' "basketball genius"; an ironic statement if there ever was one.

To sum up; from all sources I've read, Dragic taking less money is more likely to be fact than assumption.

5. ...because he wants to be in a good situation more than anything else.
Again, I'm not sure that there's any proof he wanted to be traded to losing teams but the Lakers and Heat, while not being great now, aren't long-term losing clubs (the Suns aren't either but based on recent events i.e. during the "Sarver without Nash" era are, unfortunately, heading in that direction), while the Knicks definitely are a losing club but they are a big market, attractive club and does anyone really think Jackson won't turn it around? There's a guy who's better than 50/50 to succeed, even though it won't happen over night. Dragic is not old so would have had plenty of time to grow with them while being the lead guard.

So Steve - unless I'm missing something, are you able to retract your view that I've made "incredible leaps and incredible claims"?

4. "From all accounts" Huge overstatement. One account. Thought of as Suns friendly AFTER he started performing on a high level. No indication Houston was offering the same (or anyone else was offering that for that matter). Also, hometown discount, does not always mean he is doing the team a favor or being uncommonly loyal. Sometimes it means that that is where his wife wants to live, or he likes the weather, or he doesn't have to sell his house.

 

[3rdside]

4. "From all accounts" Huge overstatement. One account. Thought of as Suns friendly AFTER he started performing on a high level. No indication Houston was offering the same (or anyone else was offering that for that matter). Also, hometown discount, does not always mean he is doing the team a favor or being uncommonly loyal. Sometimes it means that that is where his wife wants to live, or he likes the weather, or he doesn't have to sell his house.

From all accounts I've read, here's another one below. If you can find an article that suggests the Suns overpaid for Dragic, or even grudgingly paid a large amount for him then please post them. You can't cause they don't exist.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/2/25/8103507/phoenix-suns-goran-dragic-ryan-mcdonough

 

[SirStefan32]

I thought it was a well-establish fact that Charlotte offered more than the Suns, no?

 

[JCSunsfan]

From all accounts I've read, here's another one below. If you can find an article that suggests the Suns overpaid for Dragic, or even grudgingly paid a large amount for him then please post them. You can't cause they don't exist.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/2/25/8103507/phoenix-suns-goran-dragic-ryan-mcdonough

I never claimed they overpaid.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I thought it was a well-establish fact that Charlotte offered more than the Suns, no?

That may have been, the problem is that he would then have actually had to PLAY for Charlotte. Some things are just not worth that little bit of extra money.

Its an interesting discussion, but I am not that much invested in it anymore. I am done talking about Goran. Feel free to have the last word if you, or anyone else, would like.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Good thing that we have these discussions to entertain us, since our team seems to do little of that....