Sarver Has "Big Picture" Problems

[Maximus]

I just read an ESPN article grading each team's draft. Chad Ford gave Phoenix an F, stating "Apparently the Suns are a little short of cash." How embarrassing these past few drafts have been.

I think that the Suns are winning in spite of Sarver, not because of him. And while his club is winning for now, he is doing long term damage at the mercy of saving some money in the short term. As Stephen Covey would say, he's killing the goose that lays the golden eggs (the "goose" being the Suns image as a top echelon quality organization). Players have different reasons for wanting to play for a team, but in the NBA, money is #1 and #2, and team reputation is #3. Players want to go to a team where they will be wined and dined (see Dallas Mavericks), and where the owner will do what he can to keep people happy.

Trading away picks for cash is just rediculous. By doing this on more than one occasion, the Suns are making themselves the laughing stocks of the NBA, and the team is becoming desparately thin. If anything, find a young player to provide immediate depth and if he's not a fit, package him mid-season for what you really need. Marcus Williams would have fit that mold perfectly, and he'd defintely be worth more after showing he can play in the league.

Suns made it clear they were doing this to be able to afford a TT extension. Hmmm, wonder why he left the organization??? Probably for reasons #1, #2, and if Sarver isn't careful, #3 (lower than the Clippers is tough, but if we trade picks for cash for a third straight year, we're well on our way).

The window is closing Mr. Sarver. Don't blow it to save a few bucks.

Maximus

 

[devilalum]

Can anybody name ONE smart move Sarver has made as owner of the Suns?

Signing Amare doesn't count, only a total idiot would have done anything but offer him the max last year.

The JJ deal turned out great but only because BC got Diaw and the picks. Sarver only handled the offending JJ part of the deal.

Letting BC go?

Appointing D'Antoni GM? Doesn't look good so far.

By the way who negotiates contracts now?

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Can anybody name ONE smart move Sarver has made as owner of the Suns?

Signing Amare doesn't count, only a total idiot would have done anything but offer him the max last year.

The JJ deal turned out great but only because BC got Diaw and the picks. Sarver only handled the offending JJ part of the deal.

Letting BC go?

Appointing D'Antoni GM? Doesn't look good so far.

By the way who negotiates contracts now?

High times for us Sarver hatas, but seriously I am willing to wait until he completly blows free agency before I totally kill him...

The thing is he has pretty much avioded failure, every move working out like magic in his very short tenure as GMP. I can't imagine someone like him not feeling invincible and willing to say screw it I am Sarver all moves I make are golden, here is my next golden move!!!... but the reality is maybe Griff and Coach D are not yet up to the life saving work arounds Foamy was getting with BC running the show.

Thus, I am less concerned about him pocketing the money than I am his willingness to make a bad deal like signing Harpring or Linsey Hunter to a 4 year deal for 5 million a year in spite or just pure desperation.

Also, It is clear to me the ol man is out, he is nothing more than a constitutional monarch for this franchise. I kind of wish he would just retire so Sarver can completely stand on his own.

 

[Mainstreet]

Can anybody name ONE smart move Sarver has made as owner of the Suns?

Signing Amare doesn't count, only a total idiot would have done anything but offer him the max last year.

The JJ deal turned out great but only because BC got Diaw and the picks. Sarver only handled the offending JJ part of the deal.

Letting BC go?

Appointing D'Antoni GM? Doesn't look good so far.

By the way who negotiates contracts now?

Signing D'Antoni as you mention and TT at the end of the season come to mind.

Also:

"It ain't over till it's over." - Yoggi Berra

 

[devilalum]

Signing D'Antoni as you mention and TT at the end of the season come to mind.

Also:

"It ain't over till it's over." - Yoggi Berra

TT was good but it didn't cost the Suns anything. Do you think Sarver was really involved much in this deal?

 

[Evil Ash]

Can anybody name ONE smart move Sarver has made as owner of the Suns?

Signing Amare doesn't count, only a total idiot would have done anything but offer him the max last year.

The JJ deal turned out great but only because BC got Diaw and the picks. Sarver only handled the offending JJ part of the deal.

Letting BC go?

Appointing D'Antoni GM? Doesn't look good so far.

By the way who negotiates contracts now?

Signing Raja Bell and those other things you choose to not count

 

[sunsfn]

Signing D'Antoni as you mention and TT at the end of the season come to mind.

Also:

"It ain't over till it's over." - Yoggi Berra

Actually, BC signed TT before he left, that was his last official act if I remember right.

 

[SunsTzu]

Actually, BC signed TT before he left, that was his last official act if I remember right.

No his last act was signing Andre Barrett and ironically his first act with the Raptors. TT was signed after BC left.

 

[devilalum]

Signing Raja Bell and those other things you choose to not count

Whoever signed Raja deserves some credit.

The truth is that the Suns front office has always made decisions by committee but BC was a pretty important member.

The Tim Thomas debacle is not helping to convince me that the new committee is competent. If their plan all along was to offer him $12 mil. then that was a pretty stupid plan.

They had to know somebody else would offer him more. And I'm not buying that, "Timmy said he would play for us for less," BS. TT backed off of this in several interviews during the post season and just after it ended.

Instead of thinking of ways to get some extra help the new committee's sitting up in the big room trying to figure out ways they can keep season ticket owners happy without really doing anything.


In all fairness though Sarver took over one of the best franchises in sports. There really was no where to go but down. Even if they win a title this year everybody will say it was the Colangelos team.

Sarvers legacy will be written after Nash retires. Maybe he'll get lucky and draft a superstar with Atlanta's pick next year.

 

[Joe Mama]

Whoever signed Raja deserves some credit.

The truth is that the Suns front office has always made decisions by committee but BC was a pretty important member.

The Tim Thomas debacle is not helping to convince me that the new committee is competent. If their plan all along was to offer him $12 mil. then that was a pretty stupid plan.

They had to know somebody else would offer him more. And I'm not buying that, "Timmy said he would play for us for less," BS. TT backed off of this in several interviews during the post season and just after it ended.

Instead of thinking of ways to get some extra help the new committee's sitting up in the big room trying to figure out ways they can keep season ticket owners happy without really doing anything.


In all fairness though Sarver took over one of the best franchises in sports. There really was no where to go but down. Even if they win a title this year everybody will say it was the Colangelos team.

Sarvers legacy will be written after Nash retires. Maybe he'll get lucky and draft a superstar with Atlanta's pick next year.

I forget. Who was the owner who signed Steve Nash to his current deal? Who was it who signed Raja Bell? Q (who was traded for Kurt Thomas)?

I keep reading everybody bitching about losing Tim Thomas, but I'm not sure I've seen one person who said they would have preferred the Phoenix Suns give him $24 million over 4 years.

Same thing goes for the draft. Everybody is complaining about trading out of the draft instead of saying who they would have taken instead. I guess to be fair a few people have said they would have taken Sergio Rodríguez and left him in Europe. Of course we aren't sure he wants to stay in Europe, and Mike D'Antoni said the day before the draft that he did not want Sergio Rodríguez.

Let's see it people. What would all you have done?

Joe

 

[devilalum]

I forget. Who was the owner who signed Steve Nash to his current deal? Who was it who signed Raja Bell? Q (who was traded for Kurt Thomas)?

I keep reading everybody bitching about losing Tim Thomas, but I'm not sure I've seen one person who said they would have preferred the Phoenix Suns give him $24 million over 4 years.

Same thing goes for the draft. Everybody is complaining about trading out of the draft instead of saying who they would have taken instead. I guess to be fair a few people have said they would have taken Sergio Rodríguez and left him in Europe. Of course we aren't sure he wants to stay in Europe, and Mike D'Antoni said the day before the draft that he did not want Sergio Rodríguez.

Let's see it people. What would all you have done?

Joe

Sarver was on board for the Nash signing but it was a Colangelo endeaver. If Sarver had been running the show he would have low balled Nash and Nash would have stayed in Dallas. I'll give him credit for Raja but very little for Nash.

Remember Sarver didn't have full control of the team yet when Nash was signed. I believe all he really had was a financial veto at that point.

 

[JS22]

I forget. Who was the owner who signed Steve Nash to his current deal? Who was it who signed Raja Bell? Q (who was traded for Kurt Thomas)?

I keep reading everybody bitching about losing Tim Thomas, but I'm not sure I've seen one person who said they would have preferred the Phoenix Suns give him $24 million over 4 years.

Same thing goes for the draft. Everybody is complaining about trading out of the draft instead of saying who they would have taken instead. I guess to be fair a few people have said they would have taken Sergio Rodríguez and left him in Europe. Of course we aren't sure he wants to stay in Europe, and Mike D'Antoni said the day before the draft that he did not want Sergio Rodríguez.

Let's see it people. What would all you have done?

Joe

Thank you.

 

[devilalum]

I keep reading everybody bitching about losing Tim Thomas, but I'm not sure I've seen one person who said they would have preferred the Phoenix Suns give him $24 million over 4 years.
Joe

I wasn't bitching about them not signing TT. I was bitching about how the whole thing was mishandled. The more I think about it the more I'm convinced they never even wanted Thomas. How could they have possibly believed that he would sign for what they offered?

 

[devilalum]

Sarver let BC go because he wanted to get out from under the Colangelo shadow and put all this debate about who is really making the smart moves business to rest.

Well now there's no debate. Everthing that has happened this off season is all Sarver.

 

[Evil Ash]

I wasn't bitching about them not signing TT. I was bitching about how the whole thing was mishandled. The more I think about it the more I'm convinced they never even wanted Thomas. How could they have possibly believed that he would sign for what they offered?

Well according to Tim Thomas it was "********" for him to leave a team with championship aspirations. Yet the first day of FA he bolts. They wanted to sign him to a reasonable deal because playing well for 3 months during a contract year wasn't enough for them to go full out for him. This isn't the NFL when mistakes are made with contracts you are stuck with them

Like the "draft picks for TT" spin, it wasn't even close to the truth. He wanted money and he wanted a longer deal. I can't blame the guy for looking out for himself but the spin pisses me off.

 

[Evil Ash]

Sarver let BC go because he wanted to get out from under the Colangelo shadow and put all this debate about who is really making the smart moves business to rest.

Well now there's no debate. Everthing that has happened this off season is all Sarver.

So D'Antoni doesn't get any credit? It was his decision not to draft anybody because he didn't like anybody there.

Though they still shouldn't have made the spin they did. Just tell it like it is, "We didn't like anybody there" would be considered a valid reason IMO

 

[Mainstreet]

Anyone know if there is going to be anything about the Suns on Channel 12 in Phoenix at 10:30 PM tonight in their half hour Sports Talk segment?

I did not entirely hear what they were going to cover tonight, but a tidbit sounded like it might talk about the Suns.

I'm really only guessing based on a few passing words... maybe not.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Anyone know if there is going to be anything about the Suns on Channel 12 in Phoenix at 10:30 PM tonight in their half hour Sports Talk segment?

I did not entirely hear what they were going to cover tonight, but a tidbit sounded like it might talk about the Suns.

I'm really only guessing based on a few passing words... maybe not.

all the shows are at 10:30, the game to be honest is usually the most local in focus it seems...12 has the Pit which used to be cool but is horrid now and usually has Bruce cooper or that sports manager guy sitting in.

 

[Joe Mama]

Anyone know if there is going to be anything about the Suns on Channel 12 in Phoenix at 10:30 PM tonight in their half hour Sports Talk segment?

I did not entirely hear what they were going to cover tonight, but a tidbit sounded like it might talk about the Suns.

I'm really only guessing based on a few passing words... maybe not.

it's actually only a half an hour. I heard last night that they are going to have Coro, the Phoenix Suns beat writer, on the show tonight.

Joe

 

[Treesquid PhD]

So D'Antoni doesn't get any credit? It was his decision not to draft anybody because he didn't like anybody there.

Though they still shouldn't have made the spin they did. Just tell it like it is, "We didn't like anybody there" would be considered a valid reason IMO

Yeah D'antoni is the GM, he makes the calls now, but he does not have an open checkbook, Sarver makes the money calls, no brags about making the money calls and until they do something other than trade picks for money and lose players to money these moves look to be about money only.

 

[Evil Ash]

all the shows are at 10:30, the game to be honest is usually the most local in focus it seems...12 has the Pit which used to be cool but is horrid now and usually has Bruce cooper or that sports manager guy sitting in.

Ever since they switched hosts to the show it has gone completely downhill

 

[Mainstreet]

it's actually only a half an hour. I heard last night that they are going to have Coro, the Phoenix Suns beat writer, on the show tonight.

Joe

Thanks.

I always figure some knowledge is better none so I will try to watch.

I'm desparate.

 

[Steel Sun]

I just read an ESPN article grading each team's draft. Chad Ford gave Phoenix an F, stating "Apparently the Suns are a little short of cash." How embarrassing these past few drafts have been.

I think that the Suns are winning in spite of Sarver, not because of him. And while his club is winning for now, he is doing long term damage at the mercy of saving some money in the short term. As Stephen Covey would say, he's killing the goose that lays the golden eggs (the "goose" being the Suns image as a top echelon quality organization). Players have different reasons for wanting to play for a team, but in the NBA, money is #1 and #2, and team reputation is #3. Players want to go to a team where they will be wined and dined (see Dallas Mavericks), and where the owner will do what he can to keep people happy.

Trading away picks for cash is just rediculous. By doing this on more than one occasion, the Suns are making themselves the laughing stocks of the NBA, and the team is becoming desparately thin. If anything, find a young player to provide immediate depth and if he's not a fit, package him mid-season for what you really need. Marcus Williams would have fit that mold perfectly, and he'd defintely be worth more after showing he can play in the league.

Suns made it clear they were doing this to be able to afford a TT extension. Hmmm, wonder why he left the organization??? Probably for reasons #1, #2, and if Sarver isn't careful, #3 (lower than the Clippers is tough, but if we trade picks for cash for a third straight year, we're well on our way).

The window is closing Mr. Sarver. Don't blow it to save a few bucks.

Maximus

Dont mean to bang on anyone, but this has to be one of the worst posts i have ever read in my life.The suns the laughingstock of the NBA, come on dude what are you smokin'? You think they should of drafted someone they did'nt want to quiet some fans that know nothing about the game of basketball.Oh yea I'm sure they're really laughing it up in ATL and Orlando and Utah and Denver and every other NBA city because the Suns have such a pathetic organization.....and what Dallas goes farther than us in 1 year (without us having basically 2 1/2 of our starting five)and now they are such a great organization....give me a freakin' break...

 

[Joe Mama]

Thanks.

I always figure some knowledge is better none so I will try to watch.

I'm desparate.

actually, they just said they are also going to have Mike D'Antoni on the show. As far as the hosts go I would rather have Bruce Cooper and the new guy in the day of the week over Tom Zenner or Mark Curtis.

Joe

 

[George O'Brien]

I'd do a poll if I could figure out the right wording, but this obsession with Sarver's supposed blunders is getting pretty old. Let's face it, the Suns under BC made a huge number of serious blunders before getting hot near the end.

How soon do we forget signing Penny and Googs or drafting Big Jake, Casey, and Zarko? For every trade for JJ it seemed there was a Jahidi White deal.

The Suns management is a team. How much of BC's good moves were his ideas versus the work of David Griffin and Mark West or even Mike D'Antoni. BC got the credit and the blame, but it is rarely that simple.

Right now. no one knows just how much Sarver is involved in the main decisions. No one wants to give him credit for shaking down the Hawks, but are quick to blame him for not overpaying TT and not drafting guys the coach doesn't like.

I still think the jury is out on whether Sarver will mess things up, but at this point his record is a whole lot better than BC's prior to the last couple of years.