Sarver on playoffs: 'It still hurts, but time heals everything'

[Cheesebeef]

IMHO, the Suns are better than anybody other than the Spurs even without KT.

if healthy, probably, but that's a HUGE IF and with zero depth as the roster is CURRENTLY constructed and with one of our guys having not been healthy in seven years (and even when "healthy" in two of the seven years he still missed 20 games) that doesn't make me comfortable enough to agree with the above statement.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Phoenix itself is very big city (sixth in the country), but the metropolitan area is not as big as the others. If I was to guess which cities have smaller metro areas they'd be:

San Antonio
Sacramento
Charlotte
Indianapolis
Memphis
Portland

What is more important is that the Suns are able to generate good but not great revenue. Considering the populations of New York/New Jersey, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Bay Area (Warriors), the Suns are undoubtedly in a lower tier.

This is incorrect. Instead of making guesses and assumptions I did some research. Sarver is spinning the situation to make himself look better.

According to the US Census (2006), the Phoenix Metropolitan area ranks #13 population.

Forbes ranks us the #7 Market in 2004. We have gone up since then in team value as well as population.


Here is a quote from Forbes in 2005.

The Suns went on to compile the best record in the NBA. Attendance rose 8% and the team hosted eight lucrative home playoff games helping the Suns earn the highest operating profit in the NBA last season, $40 million.

In 2006 the overall value of the Suns rose $15 million 410 million. The Suns still made 34.5 million dollars in 2006. That 34.5 million dollar profit dropped the Suns from first to second in value.

As far as the other top contenders:

The Spurs made 11 million last year. Dallas LOST 24.7 million.

Had the Suns kept Kurt Thomas and their draft picks, the Suns would still be more profitable than the Spurs and Dallas and would fall fairly into the middle of NBA profitability (just a shade under the Clippers in money made).

To me it is clear that a 34 and 40 million dollar profit margin is more important to Sarver than bringing the city of Phoenix a championship.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So I am sure that "it hurts" Sarver until he sees his investment has made 74.5 million dollars in two years, the base value of the team has climbed 10% and the franchise value now exceeds what his investment group purchased it for.

What was I thinking when I defended this guy last year?

 

[devilalum]

If Sarver and Kerr had their way this would be the team slogan for next season.

Crappier teams than this one have won the title!

That 24th best market line is major spin. There are about 20 descent studies out there that say Phoenix is a top 10 market and he finds one that says we're 24th and shares it with the press just after he pulls the ***** deal of the year to jettison payroll.

I am a Suns fan, I am a man of average intelligence, I am not fooled by your deception.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

More research:

The Phoenix Metro Area is the #14 TV market according to the Neilsen's ratings.

Where Phoenix ranks in the 20s in Income Per Capita, but that is due to the large number of immigrants in the city. Perhaps this is what Sarver is talking about, from the pure accounting side of things. However, hitching your horse to this statistic doesn't measure up since clearly the Suns fans are supporting the franchise with their middling incomes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So I am sure that "it hurts" Sarver until he sees his investment has made 74.5 million dollars in two years, the base value of the team has climbed 10% and the franchise value now exceeds what his investment group purchased it for.

What was I thinking when I defended this guy last year?

I don't know why but that last sentence just cracks me up.

 

[Chaplin]

More research:

The Phoenix Metro Area is the #14 TV market according to the Neilsen's ratings.

Where Phoenix ranks in the 20s in Income Per Capita, but that is due to the large number of immigrants in the city. Perhaps this is what Sarver is talking about, from the pure accounting side of things. However, hitching your horse to this statistic doesn't measure up since clearly the Suns fans are supporting the franchise with their middling incomes.

Is that the #14 TV market overall? Because I can see that when taking into consideration NBC, ABC and CBS, but probably not Fox Sports Arizona.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Is that the #14 TV market overall? Because I can see that when taking into consideration NBC, ABC and CBS, but probably not Fox Sports Arizona.

I was just going by the articles I found. It fits right in with the Phoenix Metro Population rating so I am guessing it is accurate.

 

[Chaplin]

I was just going by the articles I found. It fits right in with the Phoenix Metro Population rating so I am guessing it is accurate.

I have no doubt that it's accurate, I just am not sure that is a reliable figure to use when trying to figure out how much of the Phoenix TV market actually watches basketball.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Forbes says our valuation is #7:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/32/biz_06nba_Phoenix-Suns_321064.html

I think it's a little bit odd to say that the 5th largest city is the 24th best market for an NBA team. The only thing I can think of, is the fact that for the most part we are a transplant city. Very few people were raised to "eat, sleep and breath the Suns" which is much different than other parts of the country. I'd be very interested to read the report that Mr. Sarver is talking about.



Aren't you just setting yourself up for disappointment? Really any fan, that feels titles are the only marks of success are setting themselves up for disappointment. Only one team can win the title. I think what is more important is that year in and year out the Suns remain competitive. I just don't see how winning a title magically makes all the years we didn't win better.

The Suns have one of the greatest winning percentages in the league. We've been in the run for the title for the last 3 years. Rarely do the Suns miss the playoffs. I don't understand how all of that isn't good enough for fans. Sure I'd love to win a title, but if you're "in pain" over the fact that the Suns have never one a title, I think maybe you need to get some perspective.

Golden State won the title in 1975. I doubt anyone here thinks that they are a better organization than the Suns.

you've either:

a) never played organized competitive sports; or

b) never won a championship at any level

sports is about winning. when you're a small child it's about playing and enjoying it, when you grow older and acquire ambition it's about winning. you can win with style and grace, but make no mistake, it's still about winning.

championship and 10 years of losing? i'm game.

50 years of 50 win teams and no championship? pass.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So looking at Golden State, would you rather be in their shoes?

if i were older than 6 when they won their title and able to enjoy it? i'd have to consider it . . .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So I am sure that "it hurts" Sarver until he sees his investment has made 74.5 million dollars in two years, the base value of the team has climbed 10% and the franchise value now exceeds what his investment group purchased it for.

What was I thinking when I defended this guy last year?

you should listen to me and cheese more often.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

you should listen to me and cheese more often.

I am starting to think that I should.

 

[Drop D]

I can only hope that the ghosts of NBA seasons past, present, and future visit Ebenezer Sarver.

 

[CardShark]

Maybe Sarver means that Phoenix ranks 24th in revenue generated locally. The income generated overall probably puts us into to a top 10 ranking.

 

[azirish]

Maybe Sarver means that Phoenix ranks 24th in revenue generated locally. The income generated overall probably puts us into to a top 10 ranking.

I've read that they do very well in selling sponsorships, which was why their revenue is higher than some had projected.

 

[SunsTzu]

I've read that they do very well in selling sponsorships, which was why their revenue is higher than some had projected.

Probably has to do with the hiring of Rick Welts. Seem the Suns have done well with there sponsorships and promotion since he was hired.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I was just going by the articles I found. It fits right in with the Phoenix Metro Population rating so I am guessing it is accurate.

I know we are for sure the 14th radio market and Ive been told we are also the 14th "media" market. I am not sure about sports media market.

Sarver is a BS spewing profit-monger

we're the 24th-best market in the NBA from a revenue standpoint. It's hard for us to have the second-highest payroll, but we can have the ninth- or eighth- or seventh-highest payroll because our fans really support us.

REGARDLESS of where we stand "in the market" it is not a basis to consider when determining salary and payroll.

Thats like saying im only 24th most popular player in sports so i shouldnt score more than 20 points per game. If you have the resources to score more without risking much more, dont be an idiot.

Your profit and capital are the things you need to consider. If you have the resources to add more talent to your team then do it. using the cop out of media rankings is weak and selfish.

 

[azirish]

Why is everybody obsessin about the #24 market comment. He also said:

It's hard for us to have the second-highest payroll, but we can have the ninth- or eighth- or seventh-highest payroll because our fans really support us.

Hoopshype has the Suns listed at $68.2 million. With Strawberry and at least one more player, the Suns will be over $70 million.

Using Hoopshype the only teams with bigger payrolls are:

New York $88.2
Dallas $81.7 (includes Finley who does not impact LT)
Denver $78.2
Minnesota $71.7

There are few that could end up higher, but with the LT line at $68 million I doubt they will add enough salaries to go above the Suns.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Do you think New York, Denver, or Dallas take into account OTHER teams when they structure their payroll? Why does it matter what other teams are doing? Youre in the business of making your team win using the contraints of your capital and projected revenue.

Does ford look at toyota when discussing their payroll? No they work within the contraints of what they have.

Why is sarver allowed to use other teams as a cop out?

 

[azirish]

Do you think New York, Denver, or Dallas take into account OTHER teams when they structure their payroll? Why does it matter what other teams are doing? Youre in the business of making your team win using the contraints of your capital and projected revenue.

Does ford look at toyota when discussing their payroll? No they work within the contraints of what they have.

Why is sarver allowed to use other teams as a cop out?

You should not complain about Sarver, just decide to become a Mavs fan. Cuban has virtually unlimited resources and no partners to report to. I'd love it if Sarver had unlimited resources and could rack up over $100 million salary years like Zeke did in New York. It would be great.

I wish Sarver had unlimited resources and get frustrated that he doesn't. But the fact that he's prepared to have the team in the top five in salaries seems like pretty serious committement.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

You should not complain about Sarver, just decide to become a Mavs fan. Cuban has virtually unlimited resources and no partners to report to. I'd love it if Sarver had unlimited resources and could rack up over $100 million salary years like Zeke did in New York. It would be great.

I wish Sarver had unlimited resources and get frustrated that he doesn't. But the fact that he's prepared to have the team in the top five in salaries seems like pretty serious committement.

Um, im not saying he should pull a Cuban. Im not frustrated that he lacks unlimited resources.

Im expecting him to not cop out in interviews by using market and payroll rankings as a public excuse to determine the suns' value.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Why is everybody obsessin about the #24 market comment. He also said:



Hoopshype has the Suns listed at $68.2 million. With Strawberry and at least one more player, the Suns will be over $70 million.

Using Hoopshype the only teams with bigger payrolls are:

New York $88.2
Dallas $81.7 (includes Finley who does not impact LT)
Denver $78.2
Minnesota $71.7

There are few that could end up higher, but with the LT line at $68 million I doubt they will add enough salaries to go above the Suns.

Those teams aren't nearly as profitable as the Suns and if we had traded nothing we still would be more profitable than them. And we would have a bench and our draft picks for the future.

 

[Chaplin]

Do you think New York, Denver, or Dallas take into account OTHER teams when they structure their payroll? Why does it matter what other teams are doing? Youre in the business of making your team win using the contraints of your capital and projected revenue.

The next time you complain about Sarver's cost-cutting, perhaps you should look at your own posts.

Sarver is in a no-win situation with a lot of you people. If he spends too much, he's hurt the franchise for the future, if he cuts costs to save money, he's sacrificing the present.

I firmly believe there is no way that Sarver (or any owner for that matter) will satisfy 75% of the people on this message board, so we're all going to have to get used to the complaining for the rest of our lives.

 

[Chaplin]

Um, im not saying he should pull a Cuban. Im not frustrated that he lacks unlimited resources.

Im expecting him to not cop out in interviews by using market and payroll rankings as a public excuse to determine the suns' value.

Well, he's not going to reveal specific numbers, so I'm not sure what exactly you want from him. "Saving money" isn't going to be a good enough excuse for you.