Sarver sells or championship?

[AzStevenCal]

To play Devil's advocate, what if Ayton's personality is the reason? Maybe the current GM/Coach/owner understand that what we've seen from Ayton so far took significant investment to pull this level of production out of him. If that's the case, what's going to stop him from playing mediocre basketball once he gets generational wealth?

I've mentioned or alluded to this possibility since the subject first came up. But I can't make sense of the three years of mixed messages from and about DA.

We see the disappearing act, the lack of concentration leading to fumbled passes and rebounds, the 25 game suspension, the soft trips to the hoop, the naive/immature comments and so on.

At the same time though we see him outplay some of the best bigs in the game and we see we see how our defense frequently falls apart when he's on the bench, we see how he stepped up in several playoff games and we hear all the glowing comments from teammates and coaches about how hard he works and how much he wants to learn from the coaches and veterans.

Let's face it, he's played like the best big man in the league at times and yet he's been clearly outshined at other times at the 5 spot by teammates such as Saric and Holmes

In the end, I have no idea why this played out as it did. If I could gain insight on one aspect of this offseason, it would be about who made the decisions. If JJ is comfortable with how this played out, so am I. But if Sarver made the call, we're screwed.

 

[Covert Rain]

I've mentioned or alluded to this possibility since the subject first came up. But I can't make sense of the three years of mixed messages from and about DA.

We see the disappearing act, the lack of concentration leading to fumbled passes and rebounds, the 25 game suspension, the soft trips to the hoop, the naive/immature comments and so on.

At the same time though we see him outplay some of the best bigs in the game and we see we see how our defense frequently falls apart when he's on the bench, we see how he stepped up in several playoff games and we hear all the glowing comments from teammates and coaches about how hard he works and how much he wants to learn from the coaches and veterans.

Let's face it, he's played like the best big man in the league at times and yet he's been clearly outshined at other times at the 5 spot by teammates such as Saric and Holmes

In the end, I have no idea why this played out as it did. If I could gain insight on one aspect of this offseason, it would be about who made the decisions. If JJ is comfortable with how this played out, so am I. But if Sarver made the call, we're screwed.

I think we also have to face the reality that Ayton might be the type of player who at times will play like the best big man in the league and will just have stretches where he seems to disappear. That might be who he is. I will say this. If the Ayton we get in every playoff run is the Ayton we got in every playoff going forward? I will take that.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I've mentioned or alluded to this possibility since the subject first came up. But I can't make sense of the three years of mixed messages from and about DA.

We see the disappearing act, the lack of concentration leading to fumbled passes and rebounds, the 25 game suspension, the soft trips to the hoop, the naive/immature comments and so on.

At the same time though we see him outplay some of the best bigs in the game and we see we see how our defense frequently falls apart when he's on the bench, we see how he stepped up in several playoff games and we hear all the glowing comments from teammates and coaches about how hard he works and how much he wants to learn from the coaches and veterans.

Let's face it, he's played like the best big man in the league at times and yet he's been clearly outshined at other times at the 5 spot by teammates such as Saric and Holmes

In the end, I have no idea why this played out as it did. If I could gain insight on one aspect of this offseason, it would be about who made the decisions. If JJ is comfortable with how this played out, so am I. But if Sarver made the call, we're screwed.

Even with all of this said, I still think that if you look at sports in general, you have to take some risks to be great.

As @cheesebeef has demonstrated, it's not like the Suns can let Ayton go and get commensurate talent back. The only way that can happen is if the Suns pull a Towns trade or some other trade like it, and even then, the Suns probably have to give back another player as well.

The best option for the Suns would have been to resign Ayton. And if they weren't going to and wanted him to prove it, move him now.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Even with all of this said, I still think that if you look at sports in general, you have to take some risks to be great.

As @cheesebeef has demonstrated, it's not like the Suns can let Ayton go and get commensurate talent back. The only way that can happen is if the Suns pull a Towns trade or some other trade like it, and even then, the Suns probably have to give back another player as well.

The best option for the Suns would have been to resign Ayton. And if they weren't going to and wanted him to prove it, move him now.

I think the best option for the Suns probably would have been to re-sign Ayton and then move him when that's allowed if they'd decided he was too great a risk with a max deal.

As for trading him now, it won't be easy but there are a few first or second year bigs that I'd be willing to trade DA for. But I have no idea if other teams like him enough to make that doable.

 

[JerkFace]

I switched my vote to a championship… man, I gotta see the Suns get at least one in my lifetime. New ownership guarantees nothing.

 

[Phrazbit]

I switched my vote to a championship… man, I gotta see the Suns get at least one in my lifetime. New ownership guarantees nothing.

Truth.

Colangelo was a great owner, players loved him, he spent virtually all he could... and while his teams were consistently very good, they never went all the way.

 

[1Sun]

Truth.

Colangelo was a great owner, players loved him, he spent virtually all he could... and while his teams were consistently very good, they never went all the way.

And yet there was pride in being a Suns fan. Now the team is closer to a championship than ever, and yet I have friends expressing condolences when I mention that the Suns are my team.

 

[gimpy]

I fear they had their chance last year.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I fear they had their chance last year.

Me too.

And although I would hate a world where the trophy is handed to Sarver.... We would still be handed the trophy. So I have to take it.

Robert Sarver will never be accepted by anyone in my family. His damage to our lives from a valley sports/basketball perspective has been overwhelming. We used to rally at games as a group. Talk about them over dinner. Now..... The last 15 years have been basically poisoned by him. 33 year season ticket owners....... So sad.

My dad thinks about getting season tickets again......... But just cant give that man any portion of his money. And we were section 114 row 8 when we gave em up in 2013/14

 

[Phrazbit]

And yet there was pride in being a Suns fan. Now the team is closer to a championship than ever, and yet I have friends expressing condolences when I mention that the Suns are my team.

I’m sure just about everyone is sad that you’re a Suns ‘fan’.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

As for trading him now, it won't be easy but there are a few first or second year bigs that I'd be willing to trade DA for.

Who makes that list?

 

[Finito]

Amin just had a great segment on the Lebatard show

Explaining why Kerr quit. It’s pretty much Kerr have his word if guys did there part they were gonna get taken care of and when it came time to take care of the guys Sarver flat out said “I don’t have to what are they gonna do? Quit”

Then Steve Kerr quit

 

[AzStevenCal]

Amin just had a great segment on the Lebatard show

Explaining why Kerr quit. It’s pretty much Kerr have his word if guys did there part they were gonna get taken care of and when it came time to take care of the guys Sarver flat out said “I don’t have to what are they gonna do? Quit”

Then Steve Kerr quit

I don't believe a word Amin ever says about the Suns but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Sarver did something like this. I'd prefer to hear it from Kerr or someone close to him though rather than from a man who has built his career on his anti-Sarver crusade.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't believe a word Amin ever says about the Suns but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Sarver did something like this. I'd prefer to hear it from Kerr or someone close to him though rather than from a man who has built his career on his anti-Sarver crusade.

this was WIDELY reported at the time that Sarver was asking for salary CUTS after the WCF run and Kerr told him to F Off.

 

[AzStevenCal]

this was WIDELY reported at the time that Sarver was asking for salary CUTS after the WCF run and Kerr told him to F Off.

Yes it was. It was the rest of Amin's story that I won't accept at face value. I'm not saying it didn't happen the way Amin said, Sarver says and does some very questionable things. I just find no reason to ever believe anything Amin says about Sarver or the Suns.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Who makes that list?

What list. I just said that "if" they don't think he's going to be worth a max and we've reached the point to trade him, there are some decent young big men that I'd go after. IOW If we feel we have to move him I'd prefer to trade for someone like Evan Mobley than have to build a big package for Towns.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

What list. I just said that "if" they don't think he's going to be worth a max and we've reached the point to trade him, there are some decent young big men that I'd go after. IOW If we feel we have to move him I'd prefer to trade for someone like Evan Mobley than have to build a big package for Towns.

You said there were a couple first or second year players that you'd consider, and I was curious as to who would qualify.

Hopefully the theoretical doesn't become real.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You said there were a couple first or second year players that you'd consider, and I was curious as to who would qualify.

Hopefully the theoretical doesn't become real.

Wow, talk about tunnel vision. I really got hung up on the way you worded that question. I kept thinking you were asking me "who" would create the list and my confusion there led to my answer.

I mentioned Mobley, I really like what I saw of him in college.
But any of the good big men that have yet to earn a huge contract would potentially interest me (Jarrett Allen, James Wiseman, Robert Williams etc.) but I would prefer one that can match or come close tro DA's defense in the key.

The main thing for me is if we have to trade Ayton, avoid the targets that will force us to include multiple players and picks to make it happen.

And yeah, hopefully the theoretical doesn't become real.

 

[Finito]

I don't believe a word Amin ever says about the Suns but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Sarver did something like this. I'd prefer to hear it from Kerr or someone close to him though rather than from a man who has built his career on his anti-Sarver crusade.

Is there a Pro Sarver crusade?

The stories around the league about this guy are ridiculous.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Is there a Pro Sarver crusade?

The stories around the league about this guy are ridiculous.

Not that I'm aware of and unless one of his kids starts posting here, I can't imagine there ever will be.

But I believe Amin is a liar and I KNOW he's behind some of these stories (some, not all by any means) whether you hear them directly from him or second hand from Rachel Nichols or from Windhorst or Woj or whoever. And if you listen to Amin long enough you'll hear him tell stories about his role in the Suns organization that just do not ring true.

 

[Raindog]

For the record, I don't really believe either event will occur in 2022... but my (far) preference would be Sarver leaving. I don't think we have an actual chance to win a title as long as he is boat anchoring the franchise.

And I don't really think of him as "cheap" but something far worse - arrogant. I think he sincerely believes that whatever (limited) success the franchise has had since he has owned them is due to his "genius" and that justifies in his mind whatever his latest stupid and self-absorbed decision might be. I am equally certain he attributes the many failures to the faults of others (front office, coaches, players) whom he was still ultimately responsible for employing.

Pretty much the same as every other terrible sports owner any other city has had the misfortune of have ruin their team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For the record, I don't really believe either event will occur in 2022... but my (far) preference would be Sarver leaving. I don't think we have an actual chance to win a title as long as he is boat anchoring the franchise.

And I don't really think of him as "cheap" but something far worse - arrogant. I think he sincerely believes that whatever (limited) success the franchise has had since he has owned them is due to his "genius" and that justifies in his mind whatever his latest stupid and self-absorbed decision might be. I am equally certain he attributes the many failures to the faults of others (front office, coaches, players) whom he was still ultimately responsible for employing.

Pretty much the same as every other terrible sports owner any other city has had the misfortune of have ruin their team.

Yeah, he is frugal but he's been willing to spend where he believes it's necessary. But he thinks he's the mastermind behind our success, whatever little we've had since he bought the franchise.

I don't think he's the evil idiot some portray him as but I think he's incredibly arrogant and nowhere near as smart as he apparently thinks he is.

 

[Finito]

Not that I'm aware of and unless one of his kids starts posting here, I can't imagine there ever will be.

But I believe Amin is a liar and I KNOW he's behind some of these stories (some, not all by any means) whether you hear them directly from him or second hand from Rachel Nichols or from Windhorst or Woj or whoever. And if you listen to Amin long enough you'll hear him tell stories about his role in the Suns organization that just do not ring true.

It’s just all a big Amin conspiracy.

I get it no one likes to hear there team talked about bad but he’s been the owner for 17 years his reputation around the league is very well known

 

[AzStevenCal]

It’s just all a big Amin conspiracy.

I get it no one likes to hear there team talked about bad but he’s been the owner for 17 years his reputation around the league is very well known

Yes, Sarver's negative reputation is well known and well deserved. And that Kerr story could well be true. I have already said this. But I don't trust Sarver and I don't trust Amin. If you trust Amin, great for you. But I will never take anything he says about the Suns at face value, he's earned that mistrust AFAIC.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, he is frugal but he's been willing to spend where he believes it's necessary. But he thinks he's the mastermind behind our success, whatever little we've had since he bought the franchise.

I don't think he's the evil idiot some portray him as but I think he's incredibly arrogant and nowhere near as smart as he apparently thinks he is.

Right... what he believes is necessary. Not what is necessary to win at all costs, which is what it takes to win the whole thing more often than not.