Seriously...Charlotte?

[Covert Rain]

Yeah, because that strategy has never been proven to facilitate positive results in the past.....
You know, go to a big man in the post and get a high % shot, or wait for the double team and get an open look from either a slasher or a perimeter jump shot.
The spacing is an issue at times for sure,but to say it's due to deliberately going into Shaq is a misinformed and misguided analysis.

Agreed. Why the hell are people so worried about spacing? Improving spacing does NOT get you a title. This team needs more defense, more rebounding....and more cow bell.

 

[Mainstreet]

Agreed. Why the hell are people so worried about spacing? Improving spacing does NOT get you a title. This team needs more defense, more rebounding....and more cow bell.

The opposing defense will pack it in on the Suns that's why spacing is so important. Then the Suns can pass it back out too open 3 point shooters like J-Rich. The Suns shooters surprisingly do not get a lot of good looks from outside due to spacing problems.

 

[mojorizen7]

The opposing defense will pack it in on the Suns that's why spacing is so important. Then the Suns can pass it back out too open 3 point shooters like J-Rich. The Suns shooters surprisingly do not get a lot of good looks from outside due to spacing problems.

The SUNS spacing issues are due more to lack of execution than anything else.
If you can score consistently in the paint you will get open looks from the perimeter if you've got people to knock them down. The SUNS have both....the players aren't getting to their spots and more importantly,they aren't moving the ball efficiently enough to find the quality looks.
They're starting the offense with Shaq ,which is where it needs to begin,but after that there's rarely any semblance or "flow" of getting the ball to guys that are in position to hurt the defense for cheating inside or overplaying the pick and roll.
Half court offense isn't rocket science but Porter and certain DA holdovers are sure making it seem like it is.

Hell,the fact that it's nearly February and the SUNS are still committing silly turnovers on easy,fundamentally basic entry passes,re-post entries and swing passes is just unaceptable. That falls on Porter.

 

[Mainstreet]

The SUNS spacing issues are due more to lack of execution than anything else.
If you can score consistently in the paint you will get open looks from the perimeter if you've got people to knock them down. The SUNS have both....the players aren't getting to their spots and more importantly,they aren't moving the ball efficiently enough to find the quality looks.
They're starting the offense with Shaq ,which is where it needs to begin,but after that there's rarely any semblance or "flow" of getting the ball to guys that are in position to hurt the defense for cheating inside or overplaying the pick and roll.

Aren't you making my case for proper spacing? Proper spacing is a part of execution... being in the right spots.

 

[mojorizen7]

Aren't you making my case for proper spacing? Proper spacing is a part of execution... being in the right spots.

Yeah somewhat, but my point is(i guess) that the reason(s) for this teams piss poor play IMO is based more on lack of execution on both ends of the floor than it is just simply a spacing issue.
I'm also saying that the reasons for this lack of execution is due to both 1)Porters inability to communicate, to put guys in a position to succeed and to garner respect from the players.....
2)Simply put, Nash & Amare are not wired to function in a deliberate offense(or a hybrid).....or defend anyone else's offense.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah somewhat, but my point is(i guess) that the reason(s) for this teams piss poor play IMO is based more on lack of execution on both ends of the floor than it is just simply a spacing issue.
I'm also saying that the reasons for this lack of execution is due to both 1)Porters inability to communicate, to put guys in a position to succeed and to garner respect from the players.....
2)Simply put, Nash & Amare are not wired to function in a deliberate offense(or a hybrid).....or defend anyone else's offense.

We agree on points #1 and #2. However, the GM pulled the trigger. I bet we could fix it though.

 

[mojorizen7]

We agree on points #1 and #2. However, the GM pulled the trigger. I bet we could fix it though.

I still feel that Kerr got it right when he
1) Brought Shaq in here.
2) Let D'Antoni walk(or however that really went down)
3) Moved Diaw's contract
4) Moved Bell for a younger better player in JRich
Problem is IMO, when Kerr waivered on whether or not to rebuild in the mold of his vision of smarter, defensive basketball team....or just retool it.......he settled on hiring a relatively inexperienced(cheap) HC to turn it around and therefor attempted to convert a broken down Ferrarri into a Mack truck using a generic set of tools.

 

[Mainstreet]

I still feel that Kerr got it right when he
1) Brought Shaq in here.
2) Let D'Antoni walk(or however that really went down)
3) Moved Diaw's contract
4) Moved Bell for a younger better player in JRich
Problem is IMO, when Kerr waivered on whether or not to rebuild in the mold of his vision of smarter, defensive basketball team....or just retool it.......he settled on hiring a relatively inexperienced(cheap) HC to turn it around and therefor attempted to convert a broken down Ferrarri into a Mack truck using a generic set of tools.

1) Agree. Who would dream that Shaq could be more than a role player in Phoenix? He is so much better this year... almost like the old Shaq. This should have been a pleasant surprise but no, the Suns mess it up. The Suns don't know how to play around him. Maybe a new coach could work out the problems. Shaq was tentative and a role player when DA was here.

2) We still disagree as usual about DA.

3) Agree.

4) Agree.

Also we agree about Porter...

he settled on hiring a relatively inexperienced(cheap) HC to turn it around and therefor attempted to convert a broken down Ferrarri into a Mack truck using a generic set of tools.

However this is precisely why I wonder why we disagree so much about keeping DA at least until 2010.

 

[nowagimp]

Yeah, because that strategy has never been proven to facilitate positive results in the past.....
You know, go to a big man in the post and get a high % shot, or wait for the double team and get an open look from either a slasher or a perimeter jump shot.
The spacing is an issue at times for sure,but to say it's due to deliberately going into Shaq is a misinformed and misguided analysis.

Shaq is 36, that was long ago in the past. He wasnt event he first option on the heat, now 3 years later he is capable of that? I dont think so, stop living in the past. Shaq cannot be the first option on a contender at his age. Making him the first option in the offense has led to downgrades in all the other scorers.

 

[nowagimp]

Yeah somewhat, but my point is(i guess) that the reason(s) for this teams piss poor play IMO is based more on lack of execution on both ends of the floor than it is just simply a spacing issue.
I'm also saying that the reasons for this lack of execution is due to both 1)Porters inability to communicate, to put guys in a position to succeed and to garner respect from the players.....
2)Simply put, Nash & Amare are not wired to function in a deliberate offense(or a hybrid).....or defend anyone else's offense.

Its really pretty simple, teams that generate poor spacing on offense dont win squat. John Paxon(w/MJ's bulls), steve Kerr, michael finley and matt bonner(on the spurs), are all about spacing, not defense at all. Do you think PJ has vujacic and radmonivic in his rotation for good defense? Spacing gets you one on ones in the NBA. Even the "defensive minded" celtics needed eddie house, a horrible defender, worse than steve nash by a mile, to get the spacing right at the end of games in the finals last year. The "great defender" rajon rondo sat the bench in crunch time as rivers went with house to get the necessary spacing at the end of games. I watched chris paul when peja was out with injury, his dimes are way down and his turnovers are up quite a bit when peja was out. Gthey lost to plenty of bad teams, but I'll bet it had nothing to do with them missing pejas defense, LOL!

 

[phxsun_fan_ph]

RIOT!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Covert Rain]

You can have the best spacing in the world and that won't equal title. Defense wins championships. There have been so many dynamic offensive teams in the league over the years. Nobody would argue that any of those teams struggled with spacing and they have no titles to show for it.

You want to argue that teams with very good defenses also had good spacing on offense....Ok, I will buy it. However, it doesn't change the fact that no matter how good the spacing is on this team....it doesn't resolve the issues keeping this team from winning a title.

Winning a title is the end game. Dirk doesn't help you do it. Spacing doesn't help you do it either unless your team plays good defense. A trade for Dirk doesn't get you any closer. Now you want to make a bunch of other trades to shore up defense and add Dirk....OK.

 

[Forrestham]

At this point Porter needs to go. How can it screwe things up that Shaq is playing so well.
That is a lame excuse to use for both Porter and Amare. A great player should be glad to have Shaq playing so well. If they lose the next 2 games I think Porter will be gone. He may win back the rest of the team if Amare continues this act is put on the bench and stays there in favor of Louie. Id rather have a far less talented player busting his butt than see the way Amare is playing