Seriously though, fire Joseph

[cardsfanmd]

Have you ever considered the defensive personnel is so weak there is nothing VJ or Wilks could do in either 4-3, 3-4 or 4-2-5?

For all his faults, Steve Wilks’ D was head and shoulders better than this garbage. Hell, Billy Davis’ defense was better than this.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I will assume you passed out from drinking too much. Maybe tomorrow...

I wish. I was driving home through a snowstorm in Syracuse, New York.

First, you say nothing matters but your record. By your terms, Keim is a winner.

To go a little further, you can say Arians was a hot commodity all you like but it doesn’t change the fact that he wasn’t. The Bears had just chosen Trestman over him and we were the last team to make a hire that year. If we hadn’t brought Arians on, he was staying in Indy with Pagano.

 

[Arz101]

For all his faults, Steve Wilks’ D was head and shoulders better than this garbage. Hell, Billy Davis’ defense was better than this.

So?

 

[cardsfanmd]

So?

I’m not sure what you’re asking? The point was simple. With the same, or less talent, last year’s d was much better. This disproves your notion that talent isn’t the issue this year.

 

[Arz101]

I’m not sure what you’re asking? The point was simple. With the same, or less talent, last year’s d was much better. This disproves your notion that talent isn’t the issue this year.

As you choose to live in the land of "Wilks D was better" to support Keim, it won me over. I lost my argument to you. I concede.

 

[cardsfanmd]

As you choose to live in the land of "Wilks D was better" to support Keim, it won me over. I lost my argument to you. I concede.

I’m not saying we need to keep keim, I just think it’s pointless to blame everything on him and act like he’s been complete trash. Replacing GM’s is extremely difficult.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Kliff has no frame of reference for how bad this defense is. Compared to his defense at Texas Tech, the Cards defense is the iron curtain. Also, he is so detached from what is even going on with the defense he has no credibility

Sorry, I have a much higher opinion than you have of Kingsbury. He damn well knows his defense is not up to par, reminds him of the defenses he had at Tech but really sticks in his craw because he did not have to win a recruiting war while Keim has screwed the pooch again and again for talent... and he does have credibility as the head coach

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sorry, I have a much higher opinion than you have of Kingsbury. He damn well knows his defense is not up to par, reminds him of the defenses he had at Tech but really sticks in his craw because he did not have to win a recruiting war while Keim has screwed the pooch again and again for talent... and he does have credibility as the head coach

I doubt your credibility as the head coach when you give up all decision making into the defensive staff that's hired. That means you're the head coach should be making major decisions about his entire coaching staff, not just "his side" of the ball.

and I don't know how anyone can say Kliff's credible at this point considering he had a losing record in college and now has a losing record in the pros as well. Credibility comes with success, not repeated failure.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I doubt your credibility as the head coach when you give up all decision making into the defensive staff that's hired. That means you're the head coach should be making major decisions about his entire coaching staff, not just "his side" of the ball.

and I don't know how anyone can say Kliff's credible at this point considering he had a losing record in college and now has a losing record in the pros as well. Credibility comes with success, not repeated failure.

Cardinals hired him. Hired him as head coach. He makes twice the money or three times the money as Vance Joseph... in the Cardinal front office he has credibility unless they have none for themselves

 

[GatorAZ]

I doubt your credibility as the head coach when you give up all decision making into the defensive staff that's hired. That means you're the head coach should be making major decisions about his entire coaching staff, not just "his side" of the ball.

and I don't know how anyone can say Kliff's credible at this point considering he had a losing record in college and now has a losing record in the pros as well. Credibility comes with success, not repeated failure.

Kingsbury is nothing more than a play caller. When play callers have to worry about more than the offense it takes away from their craft. He’s a nice guy and much more likable than Wilks so the players see it as a much better atmosphere. Not sure how long the honeymoon will last because there’s still a month to go and he’s answering for stuff he had no control over like coaches and cuts.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Lol. Some of the common themes on this board are laughable. Buddha Baker and Hicks are both very good, above average starters. We have the best pass rusher in the NFL. We have strong veteran leadership. This crap d will likely have 4 guys in the Pro Bowl and would’ve had 5 if 21 wasn’t a cheater and our DC could hike his skirt up and play man occasionally. Corey Peters is a legit starter. Suggs is no longer a PB’er but he’s a legit starter. So is Brock as a nickel. It’s late in the season. Everyone can’t be a star and every team has injuries. To blame this on lack of talent is a joke.

Well Brock just got released. Said it wasn't because of his performance against the Rams. Said it was because they wanted to play younger players. Which ones lol? Chris Jones? He was cut, then resigned. Kevin Peterson? He's the only one I can think of as a legit player to give snaps for the future. Maybe I'm forgetting someone? We do have 2 player spots on our roster now after Brock & Zenner were released. Maybe they will sign 2 DB's on their radar this week? Guess they figured this season is lost anyway, why not try someone else?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Between Arians, Wilks and KK no one managed a winning season in the last three years. And it is all Vance Joseph's fault?

Slingshot this thread using Jupiter's gravity into the far reaches of solar system.

Sent from my 6060S using Tapatalk

Wilks defense here was bad but didn't give up the numbers this VJ defense is giving up. Not saying I would rather have Wilks defense. Just saying, VJ's scheme isn't working. Dom Capers defense would be better than what we're watching, & he was past his prime at his last coaching stop.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

What I know is this...our players do not have a clue where they are going and who they should be covering. IMO, that is coaching. You either can't translate the message or you can't identify players who get it. Maybe this is outside of Vance's control. Maybe Keim is forcing him to play certain players.

All I know is that I can stomach getting beat because we don't have enough talent.

I can stomach getting beat because we have to blitz to generate pressure.

What is tough for me to stomach is no defensive identity and players not knowing where they need to be.

What you said. We're heading into game #13 & there's still no communication on defense. As soon as WR's run crossing routes at the same time, going opposite directions, our players just look lost as to who's covering who. Wide open. Sickening to watch.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Sorry, I have a much higher opinion than you have of Kingsbury. He damn well knows his defense is not up to par, reminds him of the defenses he had at Tech but really sticks in his craw because he did not have to win a recruiting war while Keim has screwed the pooch again and again for talent... and he does have credibility as the head coach

Exactly. He had to recruit the leftover defensive player scraps at TT after the big football schools took all the talent. Doesn't have to recruit here. Was told he didn't have to worry about defense here, only had to call plays for the most part. Was told a big name DC would hired. He was hired, his name is no longer big, "big bust" maybe lol. His schemes don't work. Time for us to move on. Next man up.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

14. Cardinals (3-8-1) Arizona’s given up at least 400 yards in each of the last five games and nine times overall this season.

Can't win many games giving up this many yards

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I want Joseph gone. However, if that happens, Keim most likely gets another year. I don't want Joseph to be a scapegoat. Who am I kidding, Keim probably sticks around another 5 years anyway.

 

[kerouac9]

I tired to temper expectations on Joseph all season. But I don't think it's just him. He might not be an exceptional defensive coordinator, but I don't know if he's in over his head.

We have to face facts, people: The talent on this defense is B-A-D.

Chandler Jones -- All Pro Talent who plays like a borderline Pro Bowler. There's a reason people say "why does no one talk about this guy?"
Patrick Peterson -- Would start for pretty much every team in the league, but many times as a #2.
Corey Peters — would start for most NFL teams
Byron Murphy – Star potential; would start for many NFL teams
Jordan Hicks – Solid starter for most NFL teams
----------- BREAK ------------
Budda Baker – would get PT for many NFL teams
Thompson Twins - would be good depth players and special teamers for most NFL teams with some small portion of snaps
Terrell Suggs – Past his prime and wouldn't be a situational player

We have 5 legit NFL starters on an 11-man NFL defense. Very bad.

 

[AZ Native]

Fire Vance? But Stephen A Smith is already calling us racist. (How does that bitch have a job)? Just gives him something else to rant about but it would be the right move.

 

[BigRedRage]

I tired to temper expectations on Joseph all season. But I don't think it's just him. He might not be an exceptional defensive coordinator, but I don't know if he's in over his head.

We have to face facts, people: The talent on this defense is B-A-D.

Chandler Jones -- All Pro Talent who plays like a borderline Pro Bowler. There's a reason people say "why does no one talk about this guy?"
Patrick Peterson -- Would start for pretty much every team in the league, but many times as a #2.
Corey Peters — would start for most NFL teams
Byron Murphy – Star potential; would start for many NFL teams
Jordan Hicks – Solid starter for most NFL teams
----------- BREAK ------------
Budda Baker – would get PT for many NFL teams
Thompson Twins - would be good depth players and special teamers for most NFL teams with some small portion of snaps
Terrell Suggs – Past his prime and wouldn't be a situational player

We have 5 legit NFL starters on an 11-man NFL defense. Very bad.

that sums it up.

 

[DVontel]

I tired to temper expectations on Joseph all season. But I don't think it's just him. He might not be an exceptional defensive coordinator, but I don't know if he's in over his head.

We have to face facts, people: The talent on this defense is B-A-D.

Chandler Jones -- All Pro Talent who plays like a borderline Pro Bowler. There's a reason people say "why does no one talk about this guy?"
Patrick Peterson -- Would start for pretty much every team in the league, but many times as a #2.
Corey Peters — would start for most NFL teams
Byron Murphy – Star potential; would start for many NFL teams
Jordan Hicks – Solid starter for most NFL teams
----------- BREAK ------------
Budda Baker – would get PT for many NFL teams
Thompson Twins - would be good depth players and special teamers for most NFL teams with some small portion of snaps
Terrell Suggs – Past his prime and wouldn't be a situational player

We have 5 legit NFL starters on an 11-man NFL defense. Very bad.

that sums it up.

I mean, he also underachieved with talented Denver defenses as well.

Talent is clearly not good, but he’s not elevating it even just a little bit. He’s making it worse.

 

[BigRedRage]

I mean, he also underachieved with talented Denver defenses as well.

Talent is clearly not good, but he’s not elevating it even just a little bit. He’s making it worse.

For sure.

I was moreso commenting on the talent itself though. I like those top 5 players. There really is no one else I am a fan of on defense. The ILBS outside of hicks suck. Murphy could be a star and peterson is peterson. No one on the line really give me any hope outside of peters. Jones is a stud, no one else at OLB seems worth a damn thing.

And safety? I mean, Budda might be okay if we can put someone else back there with talent. No one is stepping up to that though.

 

[DVontel]

For sure.

I was moreso commenting on the talent itself though. I like those top 5 players. There really is no one else I am a fan of on defense. The ILBS outside of hicks suck. Murphy could be a star and peterson is peterson. No one on the line really give me any hope outside of peters. Jones is a stud, no one else at OLB seems worth a damn thing.

And safety? I mean, Budda might be okay if we can put someone else back there with talent. No one is stepping up to that though.

I like Chandler, Murphy, Budda, Peters, & Hicks.


You know how I am with current Peterson. Get his a** the hell out of here.

I do like the Thompson Twins, especially Jalen.

It’s not the worst defensive roster in the NFL. I don’t even think it’s bottom 3.

However, they’re playing like the bottom 1.

This is also with at least an average offense, & not a horrible one where it just goes 3 & outs & puts a lot of pressure on the defense.

 

[pinetopred]

I like Chandler, Murphy, Budda, Peters, & Hicks.


You know how I am with current Peterson. Get his a** the hell out of here.

I do like the Thompson Twins, especially Jalen.

It’s not the worst defensive roster in the NFL. I don’t even think it’s bottom 3.

However, they’re playing like the bottom 1.

This is also with at least an average offense, & not a horrible one where it just goes 3 & outs & puts a lot of pressure on the defense.

Agree people keep pointing to terrible talent yeah we get it it's not great, but at some point a good DC builds the defense with the players he has. This defense reminds me so much of last years offense so bad its almost crazy could this defense really even play in the big 12 every wr who runs any semblance of a route is open.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Kingsbury is nothing more than a play caller. When play callers have to worry about more than the offense it takes away from their craft. He’s a nice guy and much more likable than Wilks so the players see it as a much better atmosphere. Not sure how long the honeymoon will last because there’s still a month to go and he’s answering for stuff he had no control over like coaches and cuts.

that's a massive long term problem as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Card'em]

I tired to temper expectations on Joseph all season. But I don't think it's just him. He might not be an exceptional defensive coordinator, but I don't know if he's in over his head.

We have to face facts, people: The talent on this defense is B-A-D.

Chandler Jones -- All Pro Talent who plays like a borderline Pro Bowler. There's a reason people say "why does no one talk about this guy?"
Patrick Peterson -- Would start for pretty much every team in the league, but many times as a #2.
Corey Peters — would start for most NFL teams
Byron Murphy – Star potential; would start for many NFL teams
Jordan Hicks – Solid starter for most NFL teams
----------- BREAK ------------
Budda Baker – would get PT for many NFL teams
Thompson Twins - would be good depth players and special teamers for most NFL teams with some small portion of snaps
Terrell Suggs – Past his prime and wouldn't be a situational player

We have 5 legit NFL starters on an 11-man NFL defense. Very bad.

Agree with all of the above except Budda Baker. I think he starts for half of the NFL teams. This still only gives us 6 legitimate defensive starters, which makes us one of the worst defenses in the league. Hopefully Zach Allen and one of the Thompson twins can develop into starters next season. This would give us 8 starters with us needing a D lineman, ILB, and OLB to be competitive. Between free agency and the draft, not an impossible task for next season.