Sexson is a D-Back, But did we give too much?

[sly fly]

My initial response was that we gave up wayyy to much. I hate losing Spivey, who I think is going to be solid for MIL.

Capuano showed flashes. Counsell was expendable. I liked Overbay. People failed to realize it was his first full season in the bigs. And, he was very solid defensively.

If AZ signs Sexson to a longer-term deal, then it makes more sense.

But, if they lose him after 1 year... then it will go down as a joke.

Let's see what happens between now and the Winter meetings.

 

[RedStorm]

I am going to have to trust Joe and the gang on the level of talent. I do like the fact that we get some power in the line up.

I do hope we can get Sexon to sign a long term deal once he becomes an FA. Next year is all that matters.

 

[schillingfan]

Originally posted by green machine
With the prospects, you have them so you can develop them and either trade them or keep them on the team. Whe are stocked with pitchers. There would come a time where we cannot keep them all. Gosling, Patterson, Good are all still here.

Spivey was an all-star, yes. Did part of that have to do with his manager picking the team?

I am disappointed in giving up Dela Rosa, but Capuano had one good game and was hit hard in the others, if I remember right.

Moeller wanted to go.

Counsell makes way too much money for what he does.

adam

Adam, you can't both rebuild and compete. They are two conflicting approaches.

Clearly the D-Backs intend to rebuild, their budget dictates that. If you are rebuilding you get prospects for your expensive stars. If you try to get players who will keep you competitive all you'll do is delay the rebuilding process, because you will have kept around players who won't help you in 2 or 3 years.

The more pitching prospects, the better your chance that one will shine. If they are gone, they can't help you cheaply in 2 or 3 years.

Richie Sexson is a one-year fix for a team that will be lucky to make the playoffs

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Can you hear it now?

Opening day in Milwaukee...

PA announcer: "Let's give a warm welcome to YOUR Milwaukee Diamondba....errr...Brewers!!!"

 

[kps0001]

The Brewers are to the Dbax what the Mavs were to the Suns.

Anyway, I like the trade but am concerned with what we gave up. All the same things that have been voiced already. I think if Spivey were left outta the deal I would feel a little better. I think he will have a better year than last too bad it will be in a Brewers uni. Hopefully the can sign Sexson to an extension.

 

[moviegeekjn]

Originally posted by schillingfan
Clearly the D-Backs intend to rebuild, their budget dictates that. If you are rebuilding you get prospects for your expensive stars. ... The more pitching prospects, the better your chance that one will shine. If they are gone, they can't help you cheaply in 2 or 3 years.

That's why the main thing I hate about this deal is sending BOTH Capuano and De La Rosa to the Brewers ... It doesn't make sense to send both great prospects AND more established players for a one year rental deal.

 

[DbaxJ]

Maybe he isnt a "rental" player.... we know nothing, but who was involved in the trade so far. Granted it would be stupid to trade for him and only get his services for one season, so if we know that.. dont we think the FO knows that too??

 

[green machine]

Originally posted by schillingfan
Adam, you can't both rebuild and compete. They are two conflicting approaches.

Clearly the D-Backs intend to rebuild, their budget dictates that. If you are rebuilding you get prospects for your expensive stars. If you try to get players who will keep you competitive all you'll do is delay the rebuilding process, because you will have kept around players who won't help you in 2 or 3 years.

The more pitching prospects, the better your chance that one will shine. If they are gone, they can't help you cheaply in 2 or 3 years.

Richie Sexson is a one-year fix for a team that will be lucky to make the playoffs

Well the Dbacks are not in full rebuilding mode. It's reloading while lowering payroll. Can it work? We'll see. But if they were rebuilding all the high priced players would go. I think they're trying to make it gradual, therefore making it so the team does not go through some real lean years.

adam

 

[mark1]

Joe Jr is a stone blown idiot. This was a trade to dump both Spivey's and Counsell's salary. Sexson is a rent a player pure and simple. No way can the idiotbacks afford to sign Richie to an extension with a projected payroll of 55 million in 05.

When I went to work this morning, it was Counsell, De La Rosa and Overbay. I turned the radio on coming home and Spivey, Moeller, and Capuano are included, I almost drove off the freaking road. I wouldn't trust Garagiola to wash my dishes. What an cornholio. The Cubs gave up Choi and a PTBNL for Derrick Lee (who you can argue is better than Sexson). cornholio Joe gave up half our freaking team. I bet the other GM's are laughing their ass off at the idiotbacks.

 

[green machine]

Originally posted by mark1
Joe Jr is a stone blown idiot. This was a trade to dump both Spivey's and Counsell's salary. Sexson is a rent a player pure and simple. No way can the idiotbacks afford to sign Richie to an extension with a projected payroll of 55 million in 05.

When I went to work this morning, it was Counsell, De La Rosa and Overbay. I turned the radio on coming home and Spivey, Moeller, and Capuano are included, I almost drove off the freaking road. I wouldn't trust Garagiola to wash my dishes. What an cornholio. The Cubs gave up Choi and a PTBNL for Derrick Lee (who you can argue is better than Sexson). cornholio Joe gave up half our freaking team. I bet the other GM's are laughing their ass off at the idiotbacks.

Yes, Joe Jr., the man who built a W.S. Champion team is an idiot. Seriously, what great players did we give up? What irreplaceable players did we give up?

 

[schillingfan]

I think trying to be competitive and avoiding lean years is a stupid strategy. It only means you have more years out of the playoffs. It's better to just bite the bullet and go young. That's what Cleveland and Toronto both did, and I expect them to be really good once their teams grow up. I understand that the D-Backs kept Randy and Gonzo for fan reasons, but the team is rebuilding.

I don't think you can be betwixt and between. I don't understand getting rid of Capuano and De Rosa. They both would be cheap pitchers for the next 3 years. Overbay was never given a chance either.

Spivey's salary doesn't need to be unloaded. I don't think he'll cost much. He only cost $420,000 this year. He appears to be arbitration eligible, but he won't get that big a salary given one good year and a bad year this year. And if they are worried, they can non-tender him. They have no obligation to Spivey at all.

 

[az240zz]

This was just a classic salary dump. If you look at both trades the Dbacks reduced their payroll by 8 or 9 million. They bring in a right handed power hitter to make the fans happy and the payroll is still lower.

If Sexton can maintain the power the fickle fans will eat it up. And like Schillingfan we are now a 3rd place team in the division behind the Dodgers and Giants.

Az240z

 

[Forrestham]

My inital reaction is we gave up too much. But I like having Sexton and I can live with the deal as long as Sexton agrees to a long term deal. There has been a lot of bashing of Jerry and Joe the past few days. They mortgaged the future to get a title. I would rather have the team suck for a few years and have a title rather than just be "pretty good" every year.
I still want to give the team the benefit of the doubt and hopefully an extention will happen. If he is a rental player the trade should not have happened.
For management that is a true joke, there is the Cardinals board

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by mark1
Joe Jr is a stone blown idiot. This was a trade to dump both Spivey's and Counsell's salary. Sexson is a rent a player pure and simple. No way can the idiotbacks afford to sign Richie to an extension with a projected payroll of 55 million in 05.

When I went to work this morning, it was Counsell, De La Rosa and Overbay. I turned the radio on coming home and Spivey, Moeller, and Capuano are included, I almost drove off the freaking road. I wouldn't trust Garagiola to wash my dishes. What an cornholio. The Cubs gave up Choi and a PTBNL for Derrick Lee (who you can argue is better than Sexson). cornholio Joe gave up half our freaking team. I bet the other GM's are laughing their ass off at the idiotbacks.

Well, you've got to figure that at least one of the prospects was thrown in just to get Craig Counsell's salary off the books. It does seem like a gave up a lot, but the Diamondbacks needed a player like Sexson more than anything else.

I do like Junior Spivey, but he did not do very well after the first half of the 2002 season. I trust that the management that has seen him a lot more than I have new enough to feel it was OK to throw him in. Same goes for the pitchers.

I think I'll take the "jury's still out" approach on this one.

Joe Mama

 

[Ryanwb]

Overbay was never given a chance either.

That is a steaming pile

He was given a chance during the last two springs and he couldn't hack it. Its one thing if you don't hit for power but have incredible defense skills ala Grace or JT Snow, but Overbay had niether. It works great in the minors, butyou need power in this league

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Originally posted by green machine
I don't think I need to make excuses for Joe. A W.S. championship should be enough. Not every trade looks good, but so far what superstars have we given up in which bad trade?

Spivey had a great first half in 02. What happened last year?

Well, I guess by that logic, nothing negative can be said about Joe Jr. ever, since he was part of the championship.....I don't buy it. The only superstars we have acquired through trades are Gonzo and Shilling. Padilla is going to be a great pitcher for many years. Anybody still want Gonzo and his salary? I think Joe has made many good decisions, this is not one of them. Spivey was injured last year, and is a young player, in terms of major league experience. Even when he did struggle last year, he showed a hell of a lot more than Kata. WHY IS MATT KATA LABELED AS OUR STARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[schillingfan]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
That is a steaming pile

He was given a chance during the last two springs and he couldn't hack it. Its one thing if you don't hit for power but have incredible defense skills ala Grace or JT Snow, but Overbay had niether. It works great in the minors, butyou need power in this league

Overbay didn't hit for power, but he had a good place discipline with an OBP almost .100 points higher than his BA. That's a good sign for the future. I don't think defensive skills matter much at all at first base.

But in any event Lyle only got 284 at bats. He was displaced by Shea Hillebrand whose defense was far worse at first base. She Hillenbrand's BA was about the same as Lyle, but his OBP was only .302 which is pretty much godawful. His saving grace was his higher slugging percentage, but honestly, I'd have preferred Lyle Overbay to Hillenbrand at first base last year.

None of this is to laud Overbay, but he has some good qualities, and he definitely is cheap. Power is good, but OBP is important as well.

 

[Stan C]

Two points
A lot of speculation, with a lot of it wrong.
Please see ESPN article
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1675283

Counsel and Spivey together will make 5.5 million which has brewer fans angry. My bet is we forced them to take Spivey, since they seem to have a hot shot at second in triple A.
Also, Jerry was pretty adamant in the press conference that this trade gave them the ability to sign Sexson long term.
My bet is they are waiting to move Mantei at 7 million, which may take until mid-July when another team thinks they have a chance with a good closer, and then we resign Sexson. Mantei could be worth a lot at that time of year. But my speculation may be as inaccurate as most of yours.

My second point is that Joe Jr. is the trader, not the decision man. Jerry is cleaning up what it cost him to get WS, and I appreciate what he did. I wish he hadn't tied up over 25 million in extending Johnson and Gonzo though, but he's a loyal owner to faithful players. I can't believe Joe made any of those trades without Jerry's total blessing.

The man I will miss the most was the first to go, Schilling was a ball to watch, listen to, and even argue with on this website. I hope he gets another ring in Boston.

 

[schillingfan]

When did Spivey get offered a multi-year contract? He only made $432,500 last year. He is either arbitration eligible as a super 2 or pre-arbitration because he does not have 3 full years of major league service (2001 being a partial year). The only way the D-Backs would be obligated to spend millions on Junior Spivey would be if they signed a mulit-year deal with him, which would have been stupid based on one good year.

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by schillingfan
When did Spivey get offered a multi-year contract? He only made $432,500 last year. He is either arbitration eligible as a super 2 or pre-arbitration because he does not have 3 full years of major league service (2001 being a partial year). The only way the D-Backs would be obligated to spend millions on Junior Spivey would be if they signed a mulit-year deal with him, which would have been stupid based on one good year.

They extended him after his 1 good season. I think it was like 3 years 12 million or something

 

[green machine]

Originally posted by ASUCHRIS
Well, I guess by that logic, nothing negative can be said about Joe Jr. ever, since he was part of the championship.....I don't buy it. The only superstars we have acquired through trades are Gonzo and Shilling. Padilla is going to be a great pitcher for many years. Anybody still want Gonzo and his salary? I think Joe has made many good decisions, this is not one of them. Spivey was injured last year, and is a young player, in terms of major league experience. Even when he did struggle last year, he showed a hell of a lot more than Kata. WHY IS MATT KATA LABELED AS OUR STARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, there will be times to criticize Joe Jr., but I believe he deserves the benefit of the doubt up to this point. Padilla is good, but we got Schilling out of that deal. Gonzo is the Diamondbacks. Spivey is not young, relatively, I think he's 28. Sure he was injured last year, but the reason it took him so long to make the bigs is that he has always been injury prone.

 

[Houdini]

Even if the Dbacks offer Sexson a contract extension, I get the impression he'll turn it down in order to test free agency.

One Milwaukee writer predicted that the Dbacks would trade Sexson before the season is over. It could happen if the Dbacks aren't in contention.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Originally posted by green machine
Gonzo is the Diamondbacks.

If Gonzo "is the Diamondbacks", then the diamondbacks are an overpaid, noodle armed, poor defensive, not clutch offensive, problem. Can anyone justify paying Gonzo 10 million, especially since we will be the new Expos/Brewers in two years?

 

[Indrid Cold]

Junior Spivey signed a 2yr/$2.7 million contract after the 2002 season. It's dissapointing to me that the Diamondbacks have given up on his talent over a lesser one in Matt Kata, but that's seemingly the Dbacks way when a young player doesn't bend over for Brenly. Players like Spivey and Durazo soon find themselves shipped off for little in return.

Gonzo is not the problem with the Dbacks. He's been about the only player on the team since the run started who gets on base regularly and hit for power. He also has a higher OPS with runners on over the last 3-4 years than he does with the bases empty. His defense also isn't "poor" compared to most LFers . The above link says that "ratings for Luis Gonzalez suggest that he should have been a perennial contender for a Gold Glove in 1999-2001."

So does a LFer who put up around a .967 OPS with above average defense deserve $10 million/yr? Not at his age, but to rag on him above all others on the team looks like misdirected anger to me. And with his place in DBacks lore safely put away with his World Series winning bloop single off of Mariano Rivera, I don't think it's out of place to say that Gonzo "is the Diamondbacks". If Randy Johnson was as friendly towards the fans as Gonzo, then maybe he would hold that title, but I don't think there's been any other Diamondback who is more loved by the fans than Gonzo. And rightfully so.

 

[BC867]

"Where do babies come from, Dad?"

SON: "Where do babies come from, Dad?"

DAD: "Sex, son!"

SON: "Where do RBI's come from, Dad?"

DAD: "Sexson!"