Shabazz and C.J. McCullom in the first round

[HooverDam]

I don't see that happening. Suns are not going to be worse next year than they are this season. Not sure if they will draft well, go after some free agents (not many are available), or if they will trade, but there is no way they will not be better.

EDIT:
Just to clarify- I am not arguing about the best way to rebuild here- I am simply saying that the Suns will be better next year.

Why would they be better next year? its not like Kendall Marshall is going to develop.

Sure if they don't trade anyone, they bring back everyone from this year, but so what? What FAs are going to want to play with this roster?

Its more reasonable to imagine that Gortat & Dudley will be jettisoned for rebuilding pieces and that the Suns will be much worse next year.

 

[SirStefan32]

Why would they be better next year? its not like Kendall Marshall is going to develop.

Sure if they don't trade anyone, they bring back everyone from this year, but so what? What FAs are going to want to play with this roster?

Its more reasonable to imagine that Gortat & Dudley will be jettisoned for rebuilding pieces and that the Suns will be much worse next year.

The team is one good shooting guard away from being a playoff team. They will have a good draft pick in addition to a couple of later picks, they have some money to work with in free agency, and they can make some trades. I am terrified that they will go after Evans, or Ellis, which will get us stuck in mediocrity for years, but they will still be better than they are now.

 

[95pro]

The team is one good shooting guard away from being a playoff team. They will have a good draft pick in addition to a couple of later picks, they have some money to work with in free agency, and they can make some trades. I am terrified that they will go after Evans, or Ellis, which will get us stuck in mediocrity for years, but they will still be better than they are now.

i say one great pf or one great sg away from the playoffs. we have a legit starting pg and backup pg. gortat is a good starter. i like our sf in tucker and duds, they both play smart ball and nice defense.

 

[slinslin]

I couldn't agree more! Shabazz is Michael Beasley waiting to happen.

I really like McLemore, but I think he will be a top 3 pick. Archie would be my second choice.

We'll see where the three pics end up being. I'd like Caldwell-Pope with a late first-rounder, and Young or Dedmond in the second round.
If by some miracle we end up with two lottery pics, one of them has to be for a PF/C- Mcadoo, Plumlee, or Len. Gobert looks interesting, but I haven't seen him play, other than some youtube videos.

Except Shabazz does not seem like an idiot at all.

McLemore's college career didn't get off to the best start, as he was ruled academically ineligible for his freshman season. His high school was shut down by the state of Missouri and he was dismissed from Oak Hill for violating team rules, forcing him again to transfer, this time to Christian Life Center. Once on campus, McLemore was arrested for failing to show up to a court case for possession of alcohol as a minor.

Seems McLemore is much more of a headcase. Plus he is almost a year older than Shabazz and almost 2 years older than Goodwin. Also McLemore practiced for Kansas at least for a year which is an incredible advantage obviously starting out the season. Something to take into account. I am pretty sure at this point McLemore will be behind Shabazz and Goodwin in the ranking.

Not to mention Shabazz takes 3 3pters per game and shoots 48%, couldn't care less if his shot looks flat or not.

For comparison McLemore shoots 41% on 4.5 attempts per game and Goodwin 39% on under 2 attempts per game.

Shabazz 19/5/1 27mpg 50%/48%
McLemore 16.5/6/2 30mpg 49%/41%
Goodwin 16.5/5.5/4 32mpg 46%/39%

Shabazz came off of injuries and suspension to start the season since then look at his last 4 games

25/2/4
21/6/0
27/7/0
27/1/0

shot over 50% from the field and 3 in all games, not to mention hit the pretty much game winner 3 in the last game against #7 seed Missouri.

It's pointless though Shabazz will most definitely go #1 or #2.

That said I really like all three as prospects, but the Shabazz hate is absurd.

 

[Phrazbit]

Shabazz looks pretty good. Kinda reminds me of James Harden, except not as good defensively and without the court vision.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Shabazz looks pretty good. Kinda reminds me of James Harden, except not as good defensively and without the court vision.

Or the temperament. Harden is a team player, Shabazz is on Team Shabazz.

Steve

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Except Shabazz does not seem like an idiot at all.



Seems McLemore is much more of a headcase. Plus he is almost a year older than Shabazz and almost 2 years older than Goodwin. Also McLemore practiced for Kansas at least for a year which is an incredible advantage obviously starting out the season. Something to take into account. I am pretty sure at this point McLemore will be behind Shabazz and Goodwin in the ranking.

Not to mention Shabazz takes 3 3pters per game and shoots 48%, couldn't care less if his shot looks flat or not.

For comparison McLemore shoots 41% on 4.5 attempts per game and Goodwin 39% on under 2 attempts per game.

Shabazz 19/5/1 27mpg 50%/48%
McLemore 16.5/6/2 30mpg 49%/41%
Goodwin 16.5/5.5/4 32mpg 46%/39%

Shabazz came off of injuries and suspension to start the season since then look at his last 4 games

25/2/4
21/6/0
27/7/0
27/1/0

shot over 50% from the field and 3 in all games, not to mention hit the pretty much game winner 3 in the last game against #7 seed Missouri.

It's pointless though Shabazz will most definitely go #1 or #2.

That said I really like all three as prospects, but the Shabazz hate is absurd.

Also unlike Beasley Shabazz is a really good outside shooter.

As for Goodwin, did you see the second half against Louisville when he decided it was time to take over? He looked pretty darn good and started to get to the basket seemingly with ease. I know he likely won't be as pure of a scorer as Shabazz, but he has a really nice all around game. Now someone just needs to get him to understand that he should be aggressive from the start of the game.

 

[Russ Smith]

Except Shabazz does not seem like an idiot at all.



Seems McLemore is much more of a headcase. Plus he is almost a year older than Shabazz and almost 2 years older than Goodwin. Also McLemore practiced for Kansas at least for a year which is an incredible advantage obviously starting out the season. Something to take into account. I am pretty sure at this point McLemore will be behind Shabazz and Goodwin in the ranking.

Not to mention Shabazz takes 3 3pters per game and shoots 48%, couldn't care less if his shot looks flat or not.

For comparison McLemore shoots 41% on 4.5 attempts per game and Goodwin 39% on under 2 attempts per game.

Shabazz 19/5/1 27mpg 50%/48%
McLemore 16.5/6/2 30mpg 49%/41%
Goodwin 16.5/5.5/4 32mpg 46%/39%

Shabazz came off of injuries and suspension to start the season since then look at his last 4 games

25/2/4
21/6/0
27/7/0
27/1/0

shot over 50% from the field and 3 in all games, not to mention hit the pretty much game winner 3 in the last game against #7 seed Missouri.

It's pointless though Shabazz will most definitely go #1 or #2.

That said I really like all three as prospects, but the Shabazz hate is absurd.

It's not hate and if you actually see him play the games you'd understand he's only playing one side of the game, won't pass the ball, and that he's completely focussed on stats.

He literally had to be yanked away from a ref by Howland against Missouri because he was mad a foul wasn't called, meanwhile his teammate got the rebound and scored. Howland was trying to prevent a T on Bazz from killing the momentum.

In the presser after the game where Howland talked about how effective Bazz was on offense, he very specifically pointed out Bazz really needs to get better on defense, needs to start rebounding on D, needs to stay in front of his man, and needs to learn how to play team defense.

We have already seen multiple instances this year where teammates have exchanged words with Bazz because he won't help.

It's not "hate" it's people watching the game and looking at more than just the final stats Bazz puts up. He was good enough to outscore his bad defense against missouri, when UCLA played SDSU he got completely dominated by Jamaal Franklin.

 

[SweetD]

I am not sold on Bazz, actually been watching the games and Smith is right on, he is just padding the stats. Maybe by the end of the year, but I would rather he stay in school one more year. He still needs to work on alot of aspects of his team game.

 

[DWKB]

Seems McLemore is much more of a headcase.

That said I really like all three as prospects, but the Shabazz hate is absurd.

The Shabazz hate is absurd, but the McLemore hate is just fine? Can't deny his previous problems, but McLemore has been nothing but the ideal student athlete both on the court, in practice, and publicly off the court since he arrived at KU. Why an NBA scout or fan would care about his HS problems is beyond me, much less call him a "head case".

BTW, maybe there should be a highlight thread on these guys for people to compare.

 

[SunsTzu]

The Shabazz hate is absurd, but the McLemore hate is just fine? Can't deny his previous problems, but McLemore has been nothing but the ideal student athlete both on the court, in practice, and publicly off the court since he arrived at KU. Why an NBA scout or fan would care about his HS problems is beyond me, much less call him a "head case".

BTW, maybe there should be a highlight thread on these guys for people to compare.

I think Goodwin is more of what the Suns need right now at SG, but I really like McLemore as well. Draft Express has a really good break down of him.



http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Draft-Prospect-of-the-Week-Ben-McLemore-4055/

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think Goodwin is more of what the Suns need right now at SG, but I really like McLemore as well. Draft Express has a really good break down of him.



http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Draft-Prospect-of-the-Week-Ben-McLemore-4055/

The 2 things that concern me in that video are the "staying in front of his man part" and "creating offense" part. It's almost like he didn't even want to stay in front of his man at times and that's scary. I think Goodwin is better at those 2 aspects, but isn't as athletic as McLemore. Both are good finishers around the rim, but Goodwin seems to be better at drawing fouls as he attempts over 7 free throws a game. I do really like McLemore's ability to finish with both hands though.

 

[DWKB]

The 2 things that concern me in that video are the "staying in front of his man part" and "creating offense" part. It's almost like he didn't even want to stay in front of his man at times and that's scary. I think Goodwin is better at those 2 aspects, but isn't as athletic as McLemore. Both are good finishers around the rim, but Goodwin seems to be better at drawing fouls as he attempts over 7 free throws a game.

In regards to the man to man perimeter defense, our guards take a lot more risks because they trust that if they get beat they have a 7' averaging 5 BPG to help on defense.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

In regards to the man to man perimeter defense, our guards take a lot more risks because they trust that if they get beat they have a 7' averaging 5 BPG to help on defense.

That probably is true, but I was referring to the video where they showed quite a few times where guys went right by him like his feet were glued to the floor. It's possible that these were the only few times that it has ever happened, but it looked pretty bad either way.

 

[Black Jesus]

Michael Carter-Williams

 

[slinslin]

Michael Carter-Williams

Too many parallels to Kendall Marshall.

Our first pick has to be Shabazz, Goodwin or Lemore, just has to be.

Stay as far away from Zeller, Adams, Len, Austin as you can. Go back in draft history. 90% of the high picked complete busts were centers.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Too many parallels to Kendall Marshall.

Our first pick has to be Shabazz, Goodwin or Lemore, just has to be.

Stay as far away from Zeller, Adams, Len, Austin as you can. Go back in draft history. 90% of the high picked complete busts were centers.

Hopefully we can land one of those 3. Though I completely expect the Suns to go on a run as soon as they are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs..

 

[hcsilla]

Too many parallels to Kendall Marshall.

No.

MCW is taller, quicker and a better one-on-one player and defender than Marshall.

Our first pick has to be Shabazz, Goodwin or Lemore, just has to be.

Right now Shabazz seems Quentin Richardson with better wingspan. That's not a bad thing but hardly worth a top pick or even top3.

McLemore has a textbook jumper and can drive straight to the bucket due his athleticism but has no between game. He seems to be the 2nd coming of JR Smith (early years minus the headcase). His worst case scenario is Michael Pietrus.

If I have to pick right now between these 3, I take Archie Goodwin.

Sometimes uncontrolled but he has a nice crossover and 1st step with excellent slashing and finishing abilities. Has a good jumpshot too. His offense reminds me of Dwyane Wade at Marquette. Can pass the ball, has the will and skills to be a lockdown-defender. Just exactly what the the doctor has ordered for the Suns.

Stay as far away from Zeller, Adams, Len, Austin as you can. Go back in draft history. 90% of the high picked complete busts were centers.

I disagree. Both Zeller and Len are projected to be (very) good pros. I'm not sure at all that they are future All-Star caliber talents but Zeller will be at least a very servicable big man while Len reminds me a young Zydrunas Ilgauskas. He is very talented offensively.

The real problem of this year's draft that they are no franchise player-like talents. Right now Goodwin seems to be the closest (Noel may be the next Camby which is also excellent but still...) That's why he won't be available at our pick, IMO, unless we get a top3 one.

 

[slinslin]

No.

MCW is taller, quicker and a better one-on-one player and defender than Marshall.

He is like 1 inch taller, is pass first like Marshall and possibly an even worse shooter.

 

[hcsilla]

He is like 1 inch taller, is pass first like Marshall and possibly an even worse shooter.

Unlike Marshall MCW has a good form and elevation on his jumper.

Being passing 1st PG is a plus in most teams' eyes that is what got a lottery pick status for Marshall.

 

[slinslin]

what does it matter that his form or elevation is better? The results speak for itself 39% from the field and 27% from 3.

I'd consider him but certainly not with our own pick. Maybe with the Lakers pick if it was around #13-14.

 

[hcsilla]

what does it matter that his form or elevation is better?

Obviously it does matter. Since his form and elevation is good, his accuracy may improve with some work.

Marshall seems to have a harder time to do the same and you know why.

 

[slinslin]

You could just as well argue that since his mechanics are good but he is still not hitting his shots he won't ever improve while Marshall might improve when they can fix the mechanics.

I would bet on the player with broken mechanics to improve rather than the player with perfect mechanics who can't shoot anyway.

 

[hcsilla]

, okay.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You could just as well argue that since his mechanics are good but he is still not hitting his shots he won't ever improve while Marshall might improve when they can fix the mechanics.

I would bet on the player with broken mechanics to improve rather than the player with perfect mechanics who can't shoot anyway.

I don't think that holds up in real life. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single example of a player that fixes his mechanics after college except for a few bigs guys and young men that come to the game late.

Often when a player in college has good mechanics and a poor percentage it's either the result of poor shot selection or lack of surrounding talent. I haven't watched the player in question so I have no opinion yet but I'd be curious what others think as to why his numbers are poor.

Steve