Shaq to Dallas?

[Covert Rain]

I gave you a GREAT example. Did you watch game 3 last April? Shaq refused to come out and defend Parker after Nash was picked on numerous occasions. It resulted in Parker pouring in points on uncontested jumpers. You want proof that I'm not "twisting the facts"? Pay for the game on nba.com and watch it.

I watch every game. It still doesn't change the facts that it's a fraction of occurences over the course of the game. Go back and watch the game again, Parker (and others) blew by their defenders in more instances then any pick and roll scenario.

I am sure Parker didn't take advanatage of Amare's piss poor defense or anybody else on the team during that game right? Parker only took advantage of Shaq right? Screen and rolls during that game were exclusively against Shaq Right? What about Manu? I guess his 20 points in that example all came from pick and rolls against Shaq? All but 3 Spurs scored points that game. I guess that was all on failed pick and rolls against Shaq too.

I guess our guards playing under the screen instead of over the screen wasn't a factor. I guess not being able to stay in front of Parker or Manu for most of the series wansn't a factor. I guess thos two things combined didn't happen nearly as much as Shaq failing at his pick and roll duties.

Give me a break.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

I watch every game. It still doesn't change the facts that it's a fraction of occurences over the course of the game. Go back and watch the game again, Parker (and others) blew by their defenders in more instances then any pick and roll scenario.

I am sure Parker didn't take advanatage of Amare's piss poor defense or anybody else on the team during that game right? Parker only took advantage of Shaq right? What about Manu? I guess his 20 points in that example all came from pick and rolls against Shaq? All but 3 Spurs scored points that game. I guess that was all on failed pick and rolls against Shaq too.

Give me a break.

Now you're just being ridiculous. You really want me to come up with a game where over 50% of the scoring came as a result of Shaq not coming out to defend the pick and roll? That's a ludicrous demand. What I gave you is a great example of how Shaq's refusal to come out and guard the ballhandler in a pick and roll situation has hurt us to the point where it made a huge difference in the outcome of a game. It's one of our biggest defensive weaknesses, and teams exploit it whenever possible.

You admit Shaq's pick and roll defense is a weakness, yet won't admit it's had an impact in our losing games? Are we not lottery bound now?

 

[Covert Rain]

Now you're just being ridiculous. You really want me to come up with a game where over 50% of the scoring came as a result of Shaq not coming out to defend the pick and roll? That's a ludicrous demand. What I gave you is a great example of how Shaq's refusal to come out and guard the ballhandler in a pick and roll situation has hurt us to the point where it made a huge difference in the outcome of a game. It's one of our biggest defensive weaknesses, and teams exploit it whenever possible.

Oh....because making the huge assumption that 50% of teams points came specifically when only Shaq was guarding someone on a pick and roll is not ridiculous. Right......

Even if you could find one game (which I doubt), it doesn't mean it holds true over a season or even a series. The Spurs scored 512 points over the course of that series. According to you Shaq's pick and roll defense accounted for 206 of those points. You realize how ridiculous you sound?

You admit Shaq's pick and roll defense is a weakness, yet won't admit it's had an impact in our losing games? Are we not lottery bound now?

Where did I say it did not impact the game?

Nash not being able to keep guys in front him impacted the series. Nash, Barbosa/Bell playing under screens impacted that series. Amare not being able to guard anybody impacted that series. Our team allowing guys to streak down the lane uncontested impacted the series. Our guards allowing 3's on the perimeter impacted the series. Turnovers impacted the series. Many things impacted the series.

Looking past that single series, this team is horrible at defending the 3. Losing Joe, Shawn and the decline of Raja over the last few years has more to do with our perimter defense decline then Shaq's pick and roll abilities. We are the 3rd worst in the NBA at giving up 3 poing baskets. That is all on Shaq's pick and roll too right?

Nash has never been a good defender and year in an year out (with stats backing it up) the PG spot has been our worst defended position since Nash got here (even pre-shaq). That's Shaq's fault right? Before the Bell trade the SG spot this season was our worst defended..Shaq's fault right? Amare, has one of the worst defensive Pers amung PF (even pre-Shaq). That is Shaq's fault right? Sorry, you can't blame Shaq's pick and roll ability for any of that. It all existed even pre-Shaq.

This team is lottery bound and I bet we would have a top 5 pick if we didn't have Shaq on this team.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Oh....because making the huge assumption that 50% of teams points came specifically when only Shaq was guarding someone on a pick and roll is not ridiculous. Right......



Where did I say it did not impact the game?

Nash not being able to keep guys in front him impacted the series. Nash, Barbosa/Bell playing under screens impacted that series. Amare not being able to guard anybody impacted that series. Our team allowing guys to streak down the lane uncontested impacted the series. Our guards allowing 3's on the perimeter impacted the series. Turnover impacted the series. Many things impacted the series.

Looking past that single series. This team is horrible at defending the 3. Losing Joe, Shawn and the decline of Raja has more to do with our perimter defense then Shaq's pick and roll abilities.

This team is lottery bound and I bet we would have a top 5 pick if we didn't have Shaq on this team.

And I bet if we hadn't traded Marion for Shaq, we'd be in the playoffs.

 

[Covert Rain]

And I bet if we hadn't traded Marion for Shaq, we'd be in the playoffs.

Another playoff run where teams force us into half court sets with no inside presence and another early playoff exit. Wow...fantastic. Besides, we wasted half a season under Porter. If this team had switched back earlier in the season, we would be in the playoffs IMO. We still would have an early exit but we probably would have made it just as far.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Another playoff run where teams force us into half court sets with no inside presence and another early playoff exit. Wow...fantastic.

Not making the playoffs, losing out on potential postseason ticket sales and putting the franchise into a slightly worse financial situation. Better?

 

[Covert Rain]

Not making the playoffs, losing out on potential postseason ticket sales and putting the franchise into a slightly worse financial situation. Better?

Teams participating in the first round First Round this season will get approx. $150,000 dollars and most of the first round would be on the road limiting ticket sales anyway. It's a blip on the financial rader.

Besides, Sarver would not have made the moves could he not afford it. On KTAR he even said that if the team doesn't make the playoffs he could probaby wait until the halfway point of next season before he decided to make a move. Gambo kept pressing him about the teams financials and not being able to afford the salary. Sarver (unless he was lying) shot that down.

PS. Sactown, I have no problem with someone hating Shaq (I am not Andrew). I only have problems with people who make unsubstantiated shots at a player out of pure dislike about ANY Suns player. At one point or another I have defended Amare, Nash, Marion etc......One of my best friends is one of the biggest Shaq haters on the planet. However, he at least acknowledged that Shaq has done his job here and knows this teams problems are way bigger then Shaq. I am a Suns fans first. When Shaq is out of here I won't think twice about him. Also, I guarantee that if this teams gets rid of Shaq, brings in some crap center or has just Lopez (and that player's only strength is pick and roll defense.....and this team becomes a defensive power....I will eat every word I said).

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Teams participating in the first round First Round this season will get approx. $150,000 dollars and most of the first round would be on the road limiting ticket sales anyway. It's a blip on the financial rader.

Besides, Sarver would not have made the moves could he not afford it. On KTAR he even said that if the team doesn't make the playoffs he could probaby wait until the halfway point of next season before he decided to make a move. Gambo kept pressing him about the teams financials and not being able to afford the salary. Sarver (unless he was lying) shot that down.

PS. Sactown, I have no problem with someone hating Shaq (I am not Andrew). I only have problems with people who make unsubstantiated shots at a player out of pure dislike about ANY Suns player. At one point or another I have defended Amare, Nash, Marion etc......One of my best friends is one of the biggest Shaq haters on the planet. However, he at least acknowledged that Shaq has done his job here and knows this teams problems are way bigger then Shaq. I am a Suns fans first. When Shaq is out of here I won't think twice about him.

I'm not trying to hate on Shaq, I just think his refusal to guard a potential jump shooter in pick and roll situations is a bigger problem on defense than you do. We may have had problems guarding in the paint pre-Shaq, but we had a higher win percentage with Marion. I gotta believe Shaq's refusal to step out and guard anyone outside of the paint is a big reason for that.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not trying to hate on Shaq, I just think his refusal to guard a potential jump shooter in pick and roll situations is a bigger problem on defense than you do. We may have had problems guarding in the paint pre-Shaq, but we had a higher win percentage with Marion. I gotta believe Shaq's refusal to step out and guard anyone outside of the paint is a big reason for that.

This team progressively got worse the last 3 seasons. That was going to happen Shaq or no Shaq. If you look at every aspect of defense this team has regressed each season except one area (the paint). The perimeter defense also starting taking a nose dive pre-Shaq. The prevailing thought at the time was that if we didn't have to double down in the paint so much, our perimeter defense would improve. The FO never took into account that you still need to have good perimeter defenders no matter how good your interior defense is. You also keep ignoring that this sytem we run has shown ZERO evidence of promoting good defense since day 1.

Give me Chris Paul as our Point Guard and even Bruce Bowen or the "old raja Bell" as our guards and I bet our perimeter defense is a non-issue.