shawn marion

[BALLERMANIA2]

i dont know about anyone else, but it is really bothering me how shawn marion doesnt even seem like the same player since the all- star break. he doesnt look confident and it is one of the main things that is truly hurting this team. i believe that his not always good shot selection, his non attacking the rim and his love for the three are the culprits of his decline. i also dont know if he is tired or he really has lost his confidence or both. it will be good that big jake comes back, defensively, but the suns rely on the all around game of shawn marion and it just isnt happening lately. the matrix hasnt been giving us those exploding games(30pts, 14rebs, 2blks,2stls-35pts, 12rebs, 2blks, 4stls, etc) that he is capable of. unless this changes quickly, there will be no playoffs and that will be terrible for the team. the main reason that it will be bad is because we will be that team in the lottery with a small chance of landing a serious impact player. i really feel that something is up with him and someone needs to figure it out fast. there are only 16 games left and we cant waste any of them. marion's stats since feb. 11th- 18.8pts, 8.7rebs, 30.8%fg and his high is 26 pts.

 

[SweetD]

That is a good question it also looks like he gives up on D and will let a guy just go around him or he will not fight though a pick. Not sure what it is but, it does look like he is realy tired. Could be also that he knows he only has Dan coming of the bench.

 

[Chaz]

He needs to get on the glass. A couple of times at GS he got some offensive boards for put backs and I thought wow I remember when he used to do that!

I also wish he would step in a little instead of always shooting the 3s.

 

[Joe Mama]

At some point recently I read that Shawn Marion is pretty beat up. His lower back was bothering him, and there was something else. I'm sure he's also just a very tired. He's played a ton of minutes, and remember he didn't get much of a break during the summer because of the world championships.

His shot has been all over the place since the All-Star break.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaz]

He has played a ton of minutes.
I think also opponents are being very physical with him this season.

Hopefully with Penny coming back and JJ playing well Frank can try and keep his minutes down. It is hard to keep that guy on the bench.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Shawn is like #4 in the league in MPG. I think he is hovering around the 41 mark. I am pretty sure he said his knee has been bothering him too. He definetly is probably just to tired. Like Joe said, last summer he had the world champion ships, he was in the allstar game, and he plays a TON of minutes. He has had zero rest. I think he is not attacking the basket as much because he just doesn't have the energy to most of the time. I really have no problem with him becoming a little more passive on offense. Someone else will hopfully pick up for a lost 8 points or so. He just needs to realize that if he cannot be explosive, that instead of spotting up outside the line, he should be dumping it in to amare.

 

[SirStefan32]

I have expressed my oppinion of Shawn Marion several times here, and nobody agrees with me, but nonetheless I will express it again:
I don't like what Shawn Marion's been doing last year and even more so this year- standing on the perimeter waiting for Steph to give him the ball so he can take a jump shot. Yes, he improved his shooting, but I still don't like him taking jumpers all the time. I was against giving Marion a max extension, and I think I was right. I would still like to see if any GM's are interested in Marion, and if so, what they would give in return.

In Shawn's defense, fatigue might be a factor. He played for the national team this summer, and he's been playing over 40 minutes night in and night out. It would be interesting to reduce his minutes to 35 a night for two weeks let's say. Penny Hardaway is back, which means Shawn Marion can play five or six minutes less than he's been playing up to this point.

I would like to see Shawn take the ball to the hoop, and forget those long jumpers. If he is wide open, OK, take the three, but driving to the hoop should be the bread and butter of his game.

Stefan

 

[elindholm]

I was against giving Marion a max extension, and I think I was right. I would still like to see if any GM's are interested in Marion, and if so, what they would give in return.

I don't agree with you that these conclusions are related. I also think it was a mistake to give Marion a max extension, for the simple reason that the Suns had nothing to gain and everything to lose. They are lucky that he is playing as well as he is.

But I don't think that Marion should be traded just because he is overpaid. First of all, as I understand it, "poison pill" and BYC rules make him nearly impossible to trade anyway. But more fundamentally, it's difficult to trade players who are overpaid, because you never get equal value in return. Of the players (or combinations of players) out there who are making close to the money Marion will be making, who would you rather have that's also available? No one is going to give you short-term deals, so whoever is replacing Marion, it's going to be someone you'd better want to have around for at least a while.

 

[jw7]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
I would still like to see if any GM's are interested in Marion, and if so, what they would give in return.


Stefan

There are not many 3's that have the combo of rebounding skills, mid-range shooting and outside shooting that Shawn has. He has improved every year, and is still very young. I think you keep the young nucleus together.

 

[SirStefan32]

As I said, my oppinion about marion is not a very popular one.
Eric, yes he would be near impossible to trade, but I'd simply like to hear what people are offering.

 

[jbeecham]

I also was against giving Shawn a max contract (at least at the time that they did). I would have rather seen the Suns let other teams offer him a contract and then if someone offered him the max they suns should have matched it.

Still, I wouldn't consider trading Shawn just because of all the things he does for this team. He's top 20 in 15 different stats in the nba. He's also IMO the top SF in the NBA. Maybe he's tired, run down, injured, etc but he still plays hard and he just keeps getting better. He's only 24 yrs old and I think he's an integral part of this team. Also the fans love him and the fans would be pissed if he was gone.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

i dont know if i am against him having a max. him getting a max doesnt really hamper us. If JC is willing to give it to him, then thats fine. It keeps him happy, and it also secures him here for along time. We were not going to have serious cap room anytime soon. We already have a solid nucleus, and we are not 1 max FA away from a title. A mid level exception will get us the type of FAs we will ever need. We simply do not need another star.

So once again, if JC wants to pay him, all the better. At least he rewards good play and good people unlike a lot of other "financially conscience" teams.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

also, it isnt like he will be untradeable because of his contract later on. he is actually one of the few players in the league most teams wouldnt mind paying that much.....

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
i dont know if i am against him having a max. him getting a max doesnt really hamper us. If JC is willing to give it to him, then thats fine. It keeps him happy, and it also secures him here for along time. We were not going to have serious cap room anytime soon. We already have a solid nucleus, and we are not 1 max FA away from a title. A mid level exception will get us the type of FAs we will ever need. We simply do not need another star.

So once again, if JC wants to pay him, all the better. At least he rewards good play and good people unlike a lot of other "financially conscience" teams.

Right, I agree that it's perfectly fine is Jerry wants to give him the max, as long as he is also willing to spend his mid- level exception on another veteran role player.

When you think about it, with the financial mess, and players not getting paid as much as they used to get paid, a mid-level exception might be able to buy more than it used to. I honestly think that the Suns are only one or two veterans away from being a serious contender next year.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
I honestly think that the Suns are only one or two veterans away from being a serious contender next year.

I disagree.

Would be Suns a legit contender with Clifford Robinson?
I don't think.

I think that Suns won't be a legit contender until Stoudemire will average a dominant PF level (18PPG/12RPG) and Suns will upgrade their bench with some valuable veterans.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by hcsilla
I disagree.

Would be Suns a legit contender with Clifford Robinson?
I don't think.

I think that Suns won't be a legit contender until Stoudemire will average a dominant PF level (18PPG/12RPG) and Suns will upgrade their bench with some valuable veterans.

I disagree with that. Cliff Robinson is exactly the type of veteran that would make this current Phoenix Suns team a contender. He's still a good defender who could contribute 10-15 points per game on offense. Start in a center against teams with a smaller center, and he's the first person off the bench against teams with a big center.

IMO Phoenix Suns had Cliff Robinson to go along with the rest of this team they would be vying for home court advantage in the first round.

Joe Mama

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by hcsilla
I disagree.

Would be Suns a legit contender with Clifford Robinson?
I don't think.

I think that Suns won't be a legit contender until Stoudemire will average a dominant PF level (18PPG/12RPG) and Suns will upgrade their bench with some valuable veterans.

Heck YES! Of course they would be a legitimate contender if they has Cliffy. First of all, he can make outside shots. This would complement Marbury's penetration and Stoudemire's post up game. Cliffy would make Steph's and Amare's jobs a lot easier as a center who can shoot three's.

Then we have to consider the fact that Cliffy is a seasoned veteran, he's been in the league for a long time, been to the playoffs every year. He is very versatile. He can start on 5 against everybody except Shaq, Vlade, Yao, and few other guys. You can also put him on 3 or 4 when Amare and Shawn need resty.

I just realized I didn't mention the best thing about Cliffy- he can play some serious defense, individual and team.

I am convinced that with Cliffy on the Suns roster, the'd be much better, not sure if they would be right there with Dallas, Sacramento and San Antonio, but they would be a very dangerous team.

Also, what makes you think that Stoudemire won't be an 18 and 12 player next year? Isn't he close to 13 and 10 already.

 

[elindholm]

Also, what makes you think that Stoudemire won't be an 18 and 12 player next year? Isn't he close to 13 and 10 already.

Stoudemire is averaging 14.7 and 9.8 as a starter. His season numbers are dragged down by the first few weeks, when he saw limited minutes off the bench.

 

[BALLERMANIA2]

i think shawn marion read this thread yesterday.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by SirStefan32

I am convinced that with Cliffy on the Suns roster, the'd be much better, not sure if they would be right there with Dallas, Sacramento and San Antonio, but they would be a very dangerous team.

This is exactly my point.
I think that even with Robinson Suns would be a worse team than DAL,SAC,SAS and LAL.

Also, what makes you think that Stoudemire won't be an 18 and 12 player next year? Isn't he close to 13 and 10 already.

I didn't say that Stoudemire won't be a 18/12 guy.
I can't know.Neither you.

I said only that until Stoudemire will average at least that level it isn't really reasonable to spend 10-20 mil. for the CHANCE to become a contender.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by BALLERMANIA2
i think shawn marion read this thread yesterday.

Funny, I thought that exact same thing during the game last night!

 

[JJ Slim]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Funny, I thought that exact same thing during the game last night!

What was funny is that just after half-time, Ainge said something about since the All-Star Game that Shawn hadn't been playing like an All-Star. He had barely gotten the words out of his mouth when Shawn starting going off.