Shelton demoted as Greem lays down law

[azdad1978]

Shelton demoted as Green lays down law

Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Jun. 3, 2004 12:00 AM



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Welcome to the Dennis Green regime. Just don't get too comfortable.

This week Green opened voluntary camp - normally a relaxed affair by NFL standards - by cutting five players, demoting a highly paid starter and nearly axing another.

Green denies sending messages with the moves.

Green demoted starting left tackle L.J. Shelton and replaced him with Leonard Davis, who moves one spot over from his left guard spot.

Green also nearly released outside linebacker Raynoch Thompson, but decided against it after the two met earlier this week. Thompson has been unhappy about a contract dispute since late last season.

Coaches reportedly want Shelton to lose 10 pounds, a request Shelton politely declined to address.

"Nothing I say is going to help the situation, so I'm going to continue to keep my mouth shut and do what I'm supposed to do," said Shelton, who is listed at 335 pounds.

Green didn't say whether the move was permanent, but sprinkled phrases such as "right now" in his comments Wednesday.

"I think that right now that's where he (Davis) is going to play," Green said. "We'll see if we change that or not."

Green has insisted that salary won't factor into any of his personnel moves.

"We're not ever going to be concerned about what a guy makes," Green said.

Shelton played with ankle and elbow injuries for the past two years and underwent surgery on each this off-season.

There are no plans to move Shelton to guard or to right tackle, said Green, who raved about Davis' potential.

"I think he could play right tackle, right guard, left guard or left tackle and play it great," Green said. "I think we want him to get accustomed to that (left tackle) and we'll see."



Like Shelton, Thompson signed a contract extension last year. But he was suspended for the final four games after violating the NFL's substance abuse policy, prompting the team to withhold a portion of his money. That angered Thompson, who admitted that at one time he wanted to be released.

"We cleared some stuff up," Thompson said of his meeting with Green. "I made it clear that I want to be here."
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[MadCardDisease]

Man you have to love the fact that Green doesn't care how much money a player makes. Either you do what you are asked to do or you can sit and watch. Green is making it clear who is running this team.

As a Cardinal fan I must say this is new territory for me. I don't think any of our last couple of coaches would have the balls to shake up the roster like Green is doing.

 

[az1965]

Coaches reportedly want Shelton to lose 10 pounds, a request Shelton politely declined to address.

Well, this kind of explains all the speculations on LJ demotion... You don't do what coaches ask you to do, you get benched... What a novel idea.

 

[Jim O]

Well, this kind of explains all the speculations on LJ demotion... You don't do what coaches ask you to do, you get benched... What a novel idea.

L.J. didn't refuse to lose weight. He politely refused to talk to the media about the subject. Big difference.

 

[vikesfan]

L.J. didn't refuse to lose weight. He politely refused to talk to the media. Big difference.

No L.J. did not refuse to lose weight but he didn't lose it either.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, this kind of explains all the speculations on LJ demotion... You don't do what coaches ask you to do, you get benched... What a novel idea.

Not really, LJ is coming off ankle and elbow surgery, which means he hasn't been able to lift or run like normal.Guys his size gain weight quickly when they can't work out, it's no surprise he's overweight. Saying he had no comment did not mean he wasn't going to comply, in fact he said he would as did Big who said LJ knows what he has to do and he'll do it.

What concerns me is that this is now year 4 of the Big can be a great (name your position) and it's quite clear that moving him around has slowed his development. I would rather see him play LT all year and make Shelton compete with AC than move him back to LG later. But Green clearly said in the piece you posted that Shelton is not going to move to guard or RT.

So the implication is either Shelton is a high paid backup, is gone, or Big will eventually move back to LG. To me that's a waste of time if Big isn't going to stay at LT all year.

 

[azdad1978]

How much weight are we talking about here anyway? is he 25 pounds over weight or something?

 

[vikesfan]

Not really, LJ is coming off ankle and elbow surgery, which means he hasn't been able to lift or run like normal.Guys his size gain weight quickly when they can't work out, it's no surprise he's overweight. Saying he had no comment did not mean he wasn't going to comply, in fact he said he would as did Big who said LJ knows what he has to do and he'll do it.

What concerns me is that this is now year 4 of the Big can be a great (name your position) and it's quite clear that moving him around has slowed his development. I would rather see him play LT all year and make Shelton compete with AC than move him back to LG later. But Green clearly said in the piece you posted that Shelton is not going to move to guard or RT.

So the implication is either Shelton is a high paid backup, is gone, or Big will eventually move back to LG. To me that's a waste of time if Big isn't going to stay at LT all year.

Moving a player along the line doesn't hinder development.
Also, what is said one day can change the next in the NFL.

 

[Jim O]

No L.J. did not refuse to lose weight but he didn't lose it either.

You can't just say, "I am going to lose weight today."

L.J. just RECENTLY returned to workouts after having surgery on his elbow and ankle that put him on the shelf for a long time. When you have surgeries on an upper body part and a lower body part at the same time, you can't really do much to keep your weight down.

Getting his weight back down will take some time. He just doesn't need to lose a certain amount of weight, he needs to redistribute his weight so he is not as soft.

Green wants the five best linemen on the field right now. L.J., out of shape because of his surgeries, is not one of them right now.

 

[abomb]

Green also nearly released outside linebacker Raynoch Thompson, but decided against it after the two met earlier this week. Thompson has been unhappy about a contract dispute since late last season.

Didn't Thompson sign a new deal before his suspension last season?

A-Bomb

 

[Jim O]

Didn't Thompson sign a new deal before his suspension last season?

A-Bomb

Yes.

 

[Russ Smith]

Moving a player along the line doesn't hinder development.
Also, what is said one day can change the next in the NFL.

again tell that to Big, he has said more than once that moving around has slowed his progress.

 

[azdad1978]

Didn't Thompson sign a new deal before his suspension last season?

A-Bomb

four year contract extension.

 

[vikesfan]

again tell that to Big, he has said more than once that moving around has slowed his progress.

Well players often make excuses for their poor play. It doesn't mean what they say is anything more then an excuse. There are plenty of examples of players being able to play more then one position on the O Line. That ain't gonna wash here anymore. Now he's going to have to perform no excuses.

 

[joeshmo]

Big will be better on the left side period. The left side is his comfort zone and natural position, be it at G or T

 

[DevonCardsFan]

I hope they finally decide where L Davis is playing, so far he has played RG, RT back to RG, now LG and now to LT. They need to pick a spot for dude and leave him there, preferebly a Tackle position.

But I love Coach Green, it's so Cool having this dude

 

[Tangodnzr]

You can't just say, "I am going to lose weight today."

L.J. just RECENTLY returned to workouts after having surgery on his elbow and ankle that put him on the shelf for a long time. When you have surgeries on an upper body part and a lower boday part at the same, you can't really do much to keep your weight down.

Getting his weight back down will take some time. He just doesn't need to lose a certain amount of weight, he needs to redistribute his weight so he is not as soft.

Green wants the five best linemen on the field right now. L.J., out of shape because of his surgeries, is not one of them right now.

Thanks Jim.

Sometimes this place is worse than a beauty shop when it comes to idle minded gossiping.

The main thing that I personally see here is simply Denny Green, and his ego (good or bad) establishing his "Dennis Green" imprint as much as possible. No harm, no foul there, IMO. I'll give him credit, he is indeed media savvy.
He does milk every little situation to the N'th degree, not only with the media, but with the players too.

Stirring up a little "hate and discontent" now and then to ward off the complacency is a "little trick" I learned long ago....that works. And "Lord knows" this team has nothing to be complacent about.

It amazes me that Green is quoted as repeatedly using the phrase "right now" so he can not be pinned as lying or deceiving later on....yet idle minds, all revved up with no where to go, and in their haste don't even really listen or see little but what they want to.

 

[vikesfan]

Every move DG has made and will make is to WIN football games. If he wins enough and makes the playoffs he gets 1 million dollars. If he doesn't win and has losing seasons he will be out a job. He does not do things for ego reasons he does have a big ego, all winning coaches do (even losing coaches do). But he does things to generate Ws.

He wants to win a SB end of story.

 

[Wildman©]

one position/side vs the opposite......

I had a RB a number of years ago who, literally, could not gain a yard when aligned on the right side (WishBone formation). After a few days of pre-season (maybe even a week) of failing as a RHB, the player comes up to me and says,"Coach, try me on the left side... when we are doing drills it's easier for me to do my footwork when I am going from left to right..." At first I thought that he was BSing me, but I didn't have anything to lose by granting his request, so I made the move that day at practice. He averaged 12.5 ypc for the season as a LHB. I believe that OL position or side can make a difference for some players.

 

[Tangodnzr]

One of the few, if not only, legitimate points of possible criticism in regards to the whole situation right now, I think, is one Russ brought up.

I can understand just about everything.....its early pre-season...this is the time to experiment, not so much, I think, just for "starting" positions, but starting to develop your actual depth chart and contingency plans for the coming year. What happens if L J Goes Down seems to be a big one right now, and as well should be. The surgery's SHOULD mean he'll play even better. But it also beckons the raising in priority of asking that question.
Moving Big there has to at least be something to be considered. Who Else?
Spikes? Wells? Shelton has proven on the field he is a consistant professional.
I have to say, In MY Opinion, he was, overall, one of the best producing players on the team last year. He is not a stupid man either.
There's really nothing to worry about, in that regard. He'll be there opening day and will do the job unless injured to the extent it's impossible.
....so now...what better time than tinker and experiment a little and see what transpires?

....the big BUT though, is as Russ brought up. What about Big?

Again, I expect him to be starting at LG on opening day, and I'll go even further and say I think this will end up being where he really should be and will shine. He and Shelton should make a great combo. One or two people brought up "pulling"....I have to say....don't remember exactly when, had to be early last year or two years before that..when Big was at RG....he made a couple of the most awesome pulling blocks (going to his left), that I have ever seen. I think he's better suited to guard. For his size he is very mobile. I just wonder if , like Clement too, that although they are not "slow" they have limitations on "explosiveness" or the initial speed from zero to anything due simly to their size and mass. That's why, at tackle, the smaller, explosively quick players ala Little and Simian can sometimes give them problems. Those kind of rushers are going to give EVERY lineman big problems!
...but if Green plays around too much here, it could very well be counter productive to Big's (and the team overall's) development.

As Russ said...if Big says the moving around has slowed his development. That's it !!!! It has!!!! No one else's opinion matters. (except Green, of course). Like L J....Big has proven to be a professional....(punching KVB excepted ). Like L J he does his job and pretty much keeps his mouth shut.

Too much messing around with these guys, IMO, is not the way you make a winner out of this team. THEY are as much the cornerstones on which the success of this team rests...as much as anyone. I'd love to be playing anywhere in the backfield behind these two. (along with Kendall).

 

[Russ Smith]

Too much messing around with these guys, IMO, is not the way you make a winner out of this team. THEY are as much the cornerstones on which the success of this team rests...as much as anyone. I'd love to be playing anywhere in the backfield behind these two. (along with Kendall).

I did a lousy job of making my point though.

What concerns me is if Green thinks Big is a LT and the best option, then why not come out and say Big is my LT this year? Let Big spend the time between now and game 1 preparing to play LT. Tell Shelton if you want to start, you have to win another position.

By saying LT "for now" he's saying that 3 months from now Shelton is back in shape and a better LT than Big, I'm going to swap them. That may make sense in the vein of put your best players on the field, but in the interim you've spent 3 months with Big practicing at LT instead of LG. If you want Big to be a dominant LG, let him practice there.

IF he said Big is my LT, I'd be ok with it, note I haven't complained once about moving him to LG I was fine with it because he made a decision. This one seems designed just to motivate a guy who frankly I'm not convinced had a motivational problem. LJ has missed 3 games in the last 4 years and has played hurt consistently during that time. He's not a Pro Bowler but he's a solid player, I'm not sure he needs this as motivation he's NOT one of the guys I worry about.

And as I've said for years, I don't believe Big can be an elite LT, never have believed it, I believe he can be a dominant guard or an elite RT, but not a LT. That's why I said we would be better off moving down and taking Hutchinson than taking him that high, and Hutchinson has been a better player so far even though he's purely a guard.

 

[vikesfan]

DG knows what he is doing.

 

[Pariah]

DG knows what he is doing.

Please dispurse, people. There's nothing to see here. DG knows what he's doing. Please go back into your homes. There is nothing to see here.

 

[vikesfan]

Please dispurse, people. There's nothing to see here. DG knows what he's doing. Please go back into your homes. There is nothing to see here.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[azdad1978]

Please dispurse, people. There's nothing to see here. DG knows what he's doing. Please go back into your homes. There is nothing to see here.