Should the Suns keep Ryan McDonough as GM

[Mainstreet]

I thought posters could use this thread to talk about the Suns decision to keep Ryan McDonough as GM through the final year of his contract which ends after the 2017-18 season and possibly beyond. This topic is getting strung out through multiple threads.

Here are some fresh thoughts as the Suns season grinds to likely an ugly end.

The Knight trade is what haunts McDonough. There wouldn't be this discussion about McDonough if he had not made this trade. Certainly not to the extent we are talking about it.

Actually getting two first round picks for Dragic with him demanding out at the last minute was pretty solid. Getting a first round pick for IT who was signed on the cheap in free agency was not terrible considering he did not have much of a FA market. Also let's consider the Suns traded IT at the time they were trying to keep Dragic. Additionally the Suns recognized IT's value before other teams did. The Kings were willing to let IT walk.

Bledsoe's departure was similar to Dragic in that he made it clear he wanted out. Getting a first round draft pick and a large expiring contract for Bledsoe was not optimal value but it was market value under the circumstances. Monroe's expiring contract will hopefully allow the Suns to sign a quality FA.

In regard to the draft, the players McDonough drafted were slotted for the range he selected them. It's easy to second guess him but I didn't see any off the wall picks with the exception of Ennis. I couldn't figure out this draft selection.

If McDonough were let go now, as some suggest, the Suns would not give him the benefit of the resultant moves he will make for this draft, free agency and all the draft picks he has acquired. I think we need to see it through at this point. I have concerns the Suns would not hire anyone better, especially on short notice. I would genuinely be concerned Robert Sarver could hire a worse GM.

I must add though, this should be an attractive job for a new GM with the table already set.

Where I do see McDonough needing help is scouting. I do not even know the Suns chief scout anymore. If McDonough is doing much of the scouting he needs help now... before the draft. The Suns need to bring another quality scout on board to give advice.

As far as coaching goes, Sarver needs to open up his wallet and hire someone who has the skills commensurate with the job. No more on the job training.

Here is a link to some background information.

http://arizonasports.com/story/1094026/suns-keep-gm-ryan-mcdonough-for-final-year-of-contract/

 

[Mainstreet]

There are some excellent posts out there on this subject. I see no reason they cannot be moved to this thread for further discussion.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yes. Anyone else Sarver hires will be worse. That's just a fact. He has made some mistakes but he is learning. Look at Philly. They finally got tire of the mess that (who was that guy) made and hired Bryan Colangelo, who promptly gave away a quality asset in trade for a damaged player (Fultz).

Just stay the course. McD isn't perfect, but no GM is, and most will be a lot worse. Look at the deals Presti made this summer.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yes. Anyone else Sarver hires will be worse. That's just a fact. He has made some mistakes but he is learning. Look at Philly. They finally got tire of the mess that (who was that guy) made and hired Bryan Colangelo, who promptly gave away a quality asset in trade for a damaged player (Fultz).

Just stay the course. McD isn't perfect, but no GM is, and most will be a lot worse. Look at the deals Presti made this summer.

This is the way I'm leaning as there is no magical cure. I believe McDonough should be given the opportunity to see the benefits of his labor. The moves he makes this summer are crucial to the Suns future.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

My biggest issue with McD is there are several trades where he "got good value considering..." and the limiting factors were at least partially his fault.

Dragic, Bledsoe, the Morris brothers, and to a lesser extent IT. That's a lot of unhappy players under his regime.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This guy doesn’t deserve to hire a THIRD head coach or make one of the most important picks in franchise history with a loaded class.

Might Sarver find someone worse? Sure. But sticking with abject failure because you’re afraid it could get worse is such a defeatist attitude that you might as well commit fan hari-Kari and call it a day.

Y’all sound like the Cardinals Kool-Aiders who supported Rod Graves one failure after another.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My biggest issue with McD is there are several trades where he "got good value considering..." and the limiting factors were at least partially his fault.

Dragic, Bledsoe, the Morris brothers, and to a lesser extent IT. That's a lot of unhappy players under his regime.

Bingo. You can’t keep excusing McD’s trades “considering the circumstances” when HE is repeatedly responsible or partially responsible for those circumstances.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

He needs to go. This franchise is in no way better shape than it was before he took over. Sure he has multi picks squirrelled away from some ill advised trades caused by his signing the wrong players at the wrong time but when he starts packaging them is anybody's guess? He shouldnt have signed Bled when they already had a PG in Goran. Then he signs IT. What a cluster f he caused by doing so. Players get upset or start demanding to be traded. The common denominator in this mess is McD.

None of his draft picks to this point have me jumping up & down with the exception of Booker which he totally lucked on. No one knew Book would turn into a star franchise player for the Suns coming into the draft.

He hires HCs on the cheap and without even
interviewing multi candidates. Hiring the lovebug was a disaster. I expect the same when he retains Triano as the HC after the season.

I believe this club is in worse shape now (with the exception of booker) than before he took over as GM and it reflects in the win/loss column. He has no clue how to draft nor assemble the right pieces to build a team.
I havent watched a full Suns game in over three years. Each season feels the same as the next with no clear direction with McD at the helm. Time for him to go. We need a GM with vision and a plan.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In regard to the draft, the players McDonough drafted were slotted for the range he selected them. It's easy to second guess him but I didn't see any off the wall picks with the exception of Ennis. I couldn't figure out this draft selection.
/

In my opinion this is somewhat a strike against McD rather than a point in favor of him. If we are just going to draft where players are slotted by mainstream press then the GM isn’t doing anything to bring value. It’s the unusual selections that typically get booed fans or panned by “experts” (Dan Majerle, Giannis, Shawn Marion, etc) thy end up hitting big that shows true acumen by a gm. For instance, I still believe in josh Jackson long term, but if McD chose Donovan Mitchell over him he would’ve received jeers from fans and “experts” but would look like a genius now.

I’d like to think that Warren and Booker were the result of his knowledge, but if I recall correctly neither was really a reach and basically went where they were projected to be drafted. So yes McD made the RIGHT decision with those two, but I’m unsure it really reflects any superior insight on his part.

 

[SirStefan32]

I'll just post here what I posted in the other thread:

Looking at the record is way too simplistic. Sonics/ Thunder won 31 games before they blew it up, then they won 20, and then 23 games. The very next season they won 50 games. Now, I am NOT comparing the Suns to the Thunder, but it shows how deceiving a team's record can be.
Obviously, Booker and Warren are not KD, Westbrook, and Harden. I am fairly sure the Suns will not win 50 games next year, even with a #1 pick.

McD's picks have been reasonable. In 2013, Len was a reasonable pick. Noel and MCLemore are not any better, and if my memory is not failing me, those were the only other reasonable candidates at that slot. Sure, Giannis was available, and McD did pass on him. So did 13 other teams. Adams was there, McCollom was there, but a lot of teams passed on them too. in 2014, he nailed it with Warren. Bogdanovic was a solid pick too. He missed the mark on Ennis. Sure, there was Jokic, but everyone passed on him in the first round. He nailed it in 2015 with Booker. 2016, he made reasonable picks. Bender and Chriss were considered to be good prospects. Sure, I'd rather have Murrey, Sabonis, and/ or Heild than Bender and Chriss, but a lot of teams passed on those guys too. Jackson was a perfectly reasonable pick in 2017.

Bender, Chriss, and Jackson don't look great right now, but it's way too early to write them off. We've seen flashes from each one of those guys, so I am not ready to write them off. Jackson has confidence, Bender is already a decent 3 and D player, and Chriss actually had a very good rookie season.

I am not a fan of his trades, or the debacle that was Dragic/Bledsoe/ IT, or doubling down and taking Knight and wasting the Lakers pick (Imagine NOT having Knight, and having another mid-to late lottery pick this year!) I am not a fan of his coaching hires either. All that said, he is hardly a terrible GM, at least comparatively.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Thought it was going to be a poll. Let the man cash in all the assets

 

[Cheesebeef]

Thought it was going to be a poll. Let the man cash in all the assets

So, we have to wait until all those late to mid first round picks convey? Why? Those aren’t even great assets.

People here consistently overrate these assets he’s gotten, as if he’s got the Lakers pick... Or he stored up a bunch of non protected Brooklyn picks like Boston had.

Our assets aren’t that impressive. Holding on to them until he’s able to make more unimpressive picks in the draft seems like folly.

Letting him choose his THIRD Head Coach, when everyone agrees his coaching hires have been bad to disastrous makes even less sense.

I don’t know any team that lets a lame duck GM make decisions that will effect the future of the club for the next five years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'll just post here what I posted in the other thread:

Looking at the record is way too simplistic. Sonics/ Thunder won 31 games before they blew it up, then they won 20, and then 23 games. The very next season they won 50 games. Now, I am NOT comparing the Suns to the Thunder, but it shows how deceiving a team's record can be.
Obviously, Booker and Warren are not KD, Westbrook, and Harden. I am fairly sure the Suns will not win 50 games next year, even with a #1 pick.

McD's picks have been reasonable. In 2013, Len was a reasonable pick. Noel and MCLemore are not any better, and if my memory is not failing me, those were the only other reasonable candidates at that slot. Sure, Giannis was available, and McD did pass on him. So did 13 other teams. Adams was there, McCollom was there, but a lot of teams passed on them too. in 2014, he nailed it with Warren. Bogdanovic was a solid pick too. He missed the mark on Ennis. Sure, there was Jokic, but everyone passed on him in the first round. He nailed it in 2015 with Booker. 2016, he made reasonable picks. Bender and Chriss were considered to be good prospects. Sure, I'd rather have Murrey, Sabonis, and/ or Heild than Bender and Chriss, but a lot of teams passed on those guys too. Jackson was a perfectly reasonable pick in 2017.

Bender, Chriss, and Jackson don't look great right now, but it's way too early to write them off. We've seen flashes from each one of those guys, so I am not ready to write them off. Jackson has confidence, Bender is already a decent 3 and D player, and Chriss actually had a very good rookie season.

I am not a fan of his trades, or the debacle that was Dragic/Bledsoe/ IT, or doubling down and taking Knight and wasting the Lakers pick (Imagine NOT having Knight, and having another mid-to late lottery pick this year!) I am not a fan of his coaching hires either. All that said, he is hardly a terrible GM, at least comparatively.

Compared to what... a pile of crap? I’m your opinion who are the worst GMs in the league that he towers over?

 

[hcsilla]

Also let's consider the Suns traded IT at the time they were trying to keep Dragic.

No, IT-trade was made minutes before the deadline when Dragic was already gone.

McD is OK at drafting, had good and bad ones, some done better, others worse. He seems a very succesful negotiator at FA-deal and extensions.

I think that McD made some excellent trades (original Bledsoe and the Scola-trade), some good ones and a terrible one (the Knight-trade).

He overestimated Knight and the Lakers as a FA-market, but the worst part of it was that he completey misevaluated his own team.

He thought that the rebuilding is over when it didn't even start.

Overestimating the Dragic-Bledsoe led-team based on a 49-33 season is one thing and I can't really blame him for that. But after the 2015 trade deadline mess (one good trade, one bad and one terrible) I simply could not digest how he could have though that it is a good thing to chase free-agents like Aldridge and Chandler.

He still thought that Bledsoe is a cornerstone. He was not and that was painfully clear as Bledsoe grew as an offensive player and paralell with that he declined as a defender. Once it was clear that he was not a two-way player anymore, it was obvious that he will not lead anyone anywhere.

Yet, McD kept waiting and considered him a franchise player-something until Bledsoe wanted to be extended and then to be traded and the Suns were forced to sell him low.

Now after all these years of semi-and non-rebuilding all we have is one future core player in Booker, one good-OK player in Warren and a few prospects that could even turn out to be something.

That's a quite embarassing product of 5 years of his reign.

 

[hcsilla]

And hiring and extending Earl Watson (without even interviewing other candidates) was almost as terrible as the Knight-trade.

 

[Superbone]

McD is learning a ton on the job as one of the youngest GMs in the league. This franchise has started over too many times in the last 10 years. I'm willing to give him a chance to see what he can do with the experience he has gleaned thus far. If we're not fighting for the playoffs next year and in the middle of the playoff pack the year after that, then let him go. I don't want to start over again now.

 

[JCSunsfan]

McD is learning a ton on the job as one of the youngest GMs in the league. This franchise has started over too many times in the last 10 years. I'm willing to give him a chance to see what he can do with the experience he has gleaned thus far. If we're not fighting for the playoffs next year and in the middle of the playoff pack the year after that, then let him go. I don't want to start over again now.

I agree with this. The lack of continuity would be detrimental IMO. I guess this why a lot of GM's don't rebuild. Because when they do they get fired for it.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Our assets aren’t that impressive.

Could be three first round picks in a deep draft.. WTF

 

[SirStefan32]

I agree with Superbone and JC. Continuity is good. Let it play out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Could be three first round picks in a deep draft.. WTF

Or 1 high pick (which he had nothing to do with except putting together an atrocious team... not on purpose btw) and a pick in the 20s where the “depth” gets much more shallow after the first 7 or 8 picks.

Yay. You really think that mid-late Heat pick is a valuable asset? One that he should keep his job over?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree with Superbone and JC. Continuity is good. Let it play out.

I can’t believe people think THIS level of continuity... with continual losses, Coach firings and very little to show for in the draft... leads people to think that going forward as is makes sense.

Okay. So, next year is his final year under contract. Do you believe he deserves a contract extension?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree with this. The lack of continuity would be detrimental IMO. I guess this why a lot of GM's don't rebuild. Because when they do they get fired for it.

This year is the end of his SECOND rebuild. People thought we were going to be better this year... hell, some here thought we’d challenge for a playoff spot!

When you’re rebuilding for a THIRD time... and make no mistake, when you need a new HC, with very little proven talent that’s exactly what it is... a third rebuild.... Staying with someone who’s failed rebuilding TWICE for continuity sake is the definition of insanity.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Can someone actually spell out for me what we get with McD continuity? it’s easy to say continuity is good... but every plan he’s ever had has blown up in his face.

Do you want to maintain the losing culture we’ve continually had under McD? How about the continual revolving door of coaches he’s had to fire? Or is it the underwhelming returns so far with the majority of his lotto picks?

What is it exactly we’re gaining keeping him around... on a one year contract no less?

 

[JCSunsfan]

This year is the end of his SECOND rebuild. People thought we were going to be better this year... hell, some here thought we’d challenge for a playoff spot!

When you’re rebuilding for a THIRD time... and make no mistake, when you need a new HC, with very little proven talent that’s exactly what it is... a third rebuild.... Staying with someone who’s failed rebuilding TWICE for continuity sake is the definition of insanity.

No its not. His first rebuild. He started to rebuild and the team ended up doing exceptionally well that first year. He has even said that that year might have hurt us more than helped us because it delayed the start of the rebuild two years.

What do we get with McD?

1. Reasonable cap management. Look at the cap hell teams like the Lakers, Pelicans, Hornets, Knicks, and others are in. We do not have unmanageable contracts.

2. Good picks. Yes. The best drafters only hit 50% or so. TJ, Warren, and I believe JJ are hits. Bender might end up being yet.

3. We don't get another green GM learning all over from the beginning, because that is what you know Sarver will hire. Steve Kerr was a bad GM, he made horrible trades. Lance Blanks was too.

 

[SirStefan32]

I can’t believe people think THIS level of continuity... with continual losses, Coach firings and very little to show for in the draft... leads people to think that going forward as is makes sense.

Okay. So, next year is his final year under contract. Do you believe he deserves a contract extension?

Well, that depends on how the next season starts. If he can get a point guard and a big through trades/ free agency/ draft, and they start winning, are at 50% by the all-star break, then probably yes. Otherwise, no.