should there be retaliation on the spurs

[Gee!]

Throw elbows at Parker and Duncan. Do a Danny Ainge and throw the ball into someone's face. Make it a war and blame Stern.

I just thought of something.. Steve is against war.. hhhhmmmm...

 

[Assface]

Throw elbows at Parker and Duncan. Do a Danny Ainge and throw the ball into someone's face. Make it a war and blame Stern.

Someone needs to hold the Spurs accountable for their actions and if the league won't do it then someone on the court has to. They shouldn't be rewarded for being dirty.

 

[B-Dogg]

The best form of revenge is to beat them... Just Win Baby... and close them out on their home court in a blowout... Tell the league and the Spurs to go F themselves and Win a Championship...

 

[Treesquid PhD]

The best form of revenge is to beat them... Just Win Baby... and close them out on their home court in a blowout... Tell the league and the Spurs to go F themselves and Win a Championship...

bullshite, it's people like you that would call for D'antoni's head. The suns are short handed, it's time for thug ball.

 

[TBaslim]

The best form of revenge is to beat them... Just Win Baby... and close them out on their home court in a blowout... Tell the league and the Spurs to go F themselves and Win a Championship...

Agreed. No reason to bring a classy team down to thug level because of:

- other thugs
- stupid NBA rules enforced even more stupidly

 

[scoutmasterdave]

Just win the damned game. Just win.

 

[suckerpunch]

What Horry did was uncalled for...but don't lump the team in for one person's actions. Horry doesn't even have the dirty player rep. It was a stupid move done in frustration.

 

[Phade]

and he possibly ruined the outcome of an entire nba season.. way to go horry i hope someone drop kicks you in the throat..

 

[nashman]

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Burke start the game and use his 6 fouls very hard and all in the first quarter, get timmy to step over the line a little bit. Its basically what the NBA rewards is the thuggish play so screw it, I for one am tired of us taking the high road. Knock some of those thugs to the ground hard and dirty and if the NBA has a problem with it...tuff cause its their fault for this BS ruling! And Duncan and Bowen of course get away with leaving the bench. Seriously for us to have a chance in this game we need to rough Duncan up get him pissed and take a cheap shot with Burke or something so what if he gets suspended for a few games it will send a message. We need to sack up and let it be known we will not be pushed around and do nothing about it!

 

[Errntknght]

No thuggery by the Suns. There are 3 games left in this series and we can have the refs on our side if we keep to our normal style of play. This is not the right time to sink to the level of the Spurs, however fulfilling it would be to give them a taste of their own medicine. There's nothing wrong with the high road if it is your best hope of winning the series.

 

[nashman]

Yeah except our best hope of winning the series will be suspended next game I likely think we are f@#&@&#! Getting some calls is not going to replace the 25+ points and countless rebounds and defense that we are now without! Sorry but not sure how taking the high road at this point proves anything, if anything it has sure screwed us over the last few years!

 

[wsupkid]

Sad to say yes. I never thought I would think this evil. but yes!

Ok, I am calmed down. No the SUNS will have to prevail just as they have had to for so many other reasons! We (I) need more class than that. I still believe we are screwed by the refs. I dont care who calles me a cry baby. This is part of being a SUNS fan now.

 

[AZZenny]

The Suns have always taken the highroad along with most of their fans and everytime it's thrown back in their faces as "well, the playoffs are more physical". There has to be time when the league steps in and says no. A foul is a foul whether it's the playoffs or not. Cheap shots are automatic playoff suspensions. They have to be able to apply the rules to an incident like what has happened in a just manner. This "the rules are the rules" crap only seems to apply to someone coming off the bench. If they want to follow the letter of the law then do it with trhe play on the court as well. A foul is still a foul regardless of who it's on.

Now I just want their players taken out of the game. Thanks to Stern, lesson learned. I'm sure this is the lesson all of the kids are taking out of this as well.

It's true. The League and the sportwriters call us soft. They call us whiners. The playoff's are 'more physical.' We need to 'man up and be tough. Play hard.'

Well, then, MAKE IT SO! They have told us what they value. They have very, very clearly told us that what some of you are calling 'the high road' makes the Suns organization look like a weak-willed laughingstock in Stern's office.

So... I envision Pat Burke tripping over his own two big feet and crushing Parker as he goes down with knee to groin and elbow to larynx. The big lovable clumsy lug! Totally accidental. Then as he tries to get up, pulls a Borat and stumbles head first into Ginobli's knee.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's true. The League and the sportwriters call us soft. They call us whiners. The playoff's are 'more physical.' We need to 'man up and be tough. Play hard.'

Well, then, MAKE IT SO! They have told us what they value. They have very, very clearly told us that what some of you are calling 'the high road' makes the Suns organization look like a weak-willed laughingstock in Stern's office.

So... I envision Pat Burke tripping over his own two big feet and crushing Parker as he goes down with knee to groin and elbow to larynx. The big lovable clumsy lug! Totally accidental. Then as he tries to get up, pulls a Borat and stumbles head first into Ginobli's knee.

i love zenny. you've got to be one of my favorite posters here. that last paragraph is just beyond classic.

 

[MrRogers]

I say Release the Beast

 

[TheHopToad]

I say Release the Beast

Holy crap.....that's good!

 

[AZZenny]

Ahhhh, Yesss, Clarisse.... I could make a fine meal of Duncan's doughy nuts with a side of fava beans and a nice Chianti...

 

[mistamadness]

Absolutely not! All eyes are on game 5 now. Suns need to play our game and let the Spurs get themselves into foul trouble. Something tells me the refs will be calling a tighter game no need to shoot ourselves in the foot.

 

[MrRogers]

You say that like the Spurs would actually get fouls called on them. I would say the refs call maybe 1 out of 32 fouls the Spurs actually commit.

 

[ma_falaa_50]

well, this series just proves how out of touch David Stern, the nba has become. Their rules are archiac. they dont plan ahead and delas with situation as they present itself. last year it was the playoff seeding this yr its the playoff seeding and inexperienced refs.

David Stern and his lacky Stu(pid) jackson has made a mockery of the sport and its own league.

First NBA players crying over an "underpaid" 10 million dollar cntracts, then the synthetic ball, then the reinsertion of the old ball.

It has been a banner year for David Stern and Stu jackson. I can see the headlight now "dumb and dumber"

 

[AZZenny]

We CANNOT play our game -- those *ickheads in the NBA took our game away from us. The Spurs don't 'get themselves' in foul trouble -- the Suns have to maneuver them into it.

Look, seriously -- I love our team, our style, our basically decent guys. But this has, dare I say it, become a very asymmetrical conflict. 'Democracy must fight with one hand tied behind its back' -- well fortunately the Suns don't. There is a point where you have to decide:

Do we want to be physically battered morally superior losers, or do we want to go on to the next round?

Next round? Well, OK then -- if they will not let us play our game, then we will have to beat them at theirs.

 

[mistamadness]

You say that like the Spurs would actually get fouls called on them. I would say the refs call maybe 1 out of 32 fouls the Spurs actually commit.

After this incident? Yes.
This is the 2 best teams playing in the best series of the playoffs. i think the refs will be calling a tight game and I see Nash driving to the basket getting all kinds of Spurs into foul trouble.

 

[usctex]

You say that like the Spurs would actually get fouls called on them. I would say the refs call maybe 1 out of 32 fouls the Spurs actually commit.

I never quite understood why the average fan figures himself so smart; trusts his hopelessly uninformed gut instincts so much that he thinks he can "eye ball" a sports game or a playoff series and say that one team gets all the calls and another doesn't.

The reality is the Spurs (as the Suns) have consistently been at or near the bottom of the league in terms of fouls committed. More importantly for this discussion is the fact the Spurs were the best in the league this year.

Through four games in this series the Spurs are averaging more than three fouls more than during the regular season. While the Suns are below their season average. (Games 1, 2, 3, 4)

Just to note the subjective nature of such impressions, Game 4 prompted at least one national basketball writer to claim the officiating favored the Suns. Now, the link isn't me making an argument for such, I'm just pointing out the disparity in the claims of officiating favoring one team or another.

The stats aren't, by themselves, absolute refutation of bizarre claims of officiating favoring the Spurs. But the stats should allow reasonable fans (Suns or Spurs) to take a step back from the edge, take a deep breath and view the series more objectively.

Carrying over the two or three 'cheap' or 'dirty' shots the Spurs have given out, which are inexcusable, into imagining the Spurs are just hacking away out there and not getting called on it is simply not backed up by the statistics...or anything else.

Coach D'Antoni's heated sideline rants, Nash's visible on court frustrations, and the Suns' media complaints about the officiating flounder in the discussion, unsupported by the facts of figures (except for the complaints on the cheap shots).

When you add a systemic review of the game footage to the statistics it only strengthens that conclusion.

I can understand, in the midst of frustration, the talk of favoritism for the Spurs. But even ignoring the actual data, the numerous, completely unsubstantiable points you have to connect together to muster a conspiracy is incredible. Especially a cabal of Spurs homers such that only 1/32 Spurs fouls are called. It simply isn't very likely.

A lot of the talk and the identification of the Spurs as the Suns' persecutors no doubt is redirected anger from the several crass, inexcusable fouls (or should've been fouls) the Spurs have carried out.

Let me make it clear, while we might disagree on acceptable consequences for him, I buy the argument Bowen has gotten away with things. At the least he should've been facing a fine. Anger over the 'dirty' moves though does nothing to explain the blame plenty of Suns' fans are putting on the Spurs for a whole host of other woes. Including for Stoudemire and Diaw's suspensions. I'm sure if reason could be fabricated there are plenty of Suns' fans who would put the blame for the Challenger accident on the Spurs.

I'd ask you to put the sample size of "bad acts" in perspective. Reputation speaks a lot of truth and, with the exception of Bruce Bowen, two (or three) 'dirty' moves can hardly turn the soft/whiney Spurs into the Oakland Raiders. While no flagrant foul is excusable, I'd ask you to put Horry's flagrant in perspective. For instance, it is without a doubt the most "benign" (if that is ever an appropriate word to use for a hip check) flagrant foul carried out this post season. However, I know if I was a Suns' fan I wouldn't be able to reason it that way so close to the actual event.

Hell, I probably wouldn't even want to. Fandom is all about emotion. You don't need to reason your way to hating the Spurs.

No one wants to be mellow for Game 5. That being said, putting more than Bowen's infamous step, Bowen's knee to the crotch, and Horry's flagrant on the Spurs? Such is stretching it. To deny Stoudemire and Diaw any semblance of free will and responsibility, and to put the blame for their suspensions on Robert Horry and the Spurs is beyond unreasonable.

The NBA has an absolute zero tolerance policy when it comes to leaving the bench during a scruffle. There is no subjectivity. There is no question. The fact is, the Suns' owner and Coach D’Antoni and Steve Nash and every Suns' fan had to know that Stoudemire and Diaw weren’t going to be playing Game 5.

The singular leniency ever payed to players under this rule involved players who couldn't even see the altercation in the tunnel, and thus didn't know what was going on. Far from applicable here.

The rule clearly came nowhere near applying to when Timmy left the bench because not even a drunk Suns' fan with a close up view from the first row could've mistaken anything on the court for an altercation. Trying to extend the rule to the Spurs foray out of their seats is understandable in the heat of the moment but ignores all precedent. The rule was absolutely applied fairly.

And that is, unfortunately, the chief word. Fairly.

Personally I would've preferred no one got suspended. Common sense - in a game of this magnitude, with nothing coming of Stoudemire and Diaw leaving the bench - called for no one getting suspended as well.

But until the league decides to take footsteps down the WWF road then its central, inherent, primary sales pitch is competition on a level playing field.

It seems above debate, although some without much in the way of a vocabulary of ethics (not that I'm speaking as an expert on the subject) might contend otherwise, that granting Amare and Boris a pass would've been unfair. Every team understood the rule and its inflexible nature from the first tip off of the season.

Breaking such absolutes, if just by a small margin, unlevels the playing field.

The problem is with the rule itself and its lack of exceptions. But it is ridiculous, it voids part of the integrity of the league, it is unfair, to imagine you can alter a hard and fast rule with significant precedent at the moment when it must be applied. One of the chief elements of fairness is decisions being non-arbitrary. Nothing could be more arbitrary than letting Stoudemire and Diaw slide while the other 29 teams either abided by or suffered under the rule for at least 82 games.

In reality, the argument being pressed by many pundits and Suns' fans admits there is a sacrifice of fairness but thinks that is trivial compared to the magnitude of the game Stoudemire and Diaw are missing. Nothing could be scarier in its implications.

For those able to impartially reason it through, the best to hope for is a rethinking of the leaving the bench rule for next season.

That being said, there was a major point made at the beginning of this rant which needs to be reiterated. Whatever your thoughts on the suspensions, it is clearly not largely the Spurs' fault. We can explain Stoudemire and Boris' reactions as 'heat of the moment,' but that does NOTHING to excuse them. Pretending like that mitigates their responsibility is ridiculous. The rule was designed specifically for such acts.

Sure they wouldn't have been suspended if Horry hadn't sent Nash into the boards. I wouldn't have been gotten a speeding ticket as I headed home for dinner if my meeting hadn't run late. Most are hopefully mature enough to know where excuses end and personal responsibility begins. This suspension is on Amare and Boris...and the lack of common sense built into the leaving the bench rule.

The responsibility is not on Horry or the Spurs and that makes talking about injuring Spurs' players or off court violence just that stupider. Get real with some of the comments on this thread guys.

I would be upset right now as a Suns' fan. Plug that in with the relative anonymity the internet provides and you get outrageous statements. But show a little bit of maturity Suns' fans.

Good luck in Game 5.

 

[Brian]

***** *** ****** ** * *** *****

Huh? What are you trying to say?

 

[Errntknght]

It takes years of practice to get really good at skullduggery and the Spurs have it while we don't, so its a losing strategy. We now have an advantage over the Spurs because the refs will be wary of appearing to favor them if they are not outright sympathetic to the Suns. A few overzealous fouls by our guys will throw that away. To me that is stupidity. I want our guys to be smart and use it to the max for three games.

Also, we've got to give the refs opportunities to make calls in our favor which means that we have to aggressive on offense. I'd even put Marcus Banks in for a bit and tell him to take to the bucket to take the whole burden off Nash and Leandro - who knows, he might even slow Parker down and prove to be an overall asset. I know he tends to get a bit out of control when he drives but the refs will probably be tolerant - at least he won't be playing out of character. Raja will be good for some drives but we can't expect much from Shawn as taking it to a defender is completely uncharted territory for him. He's better off just making cuts and picking up some holding and blocking fouls. I don't think James Jones is believeable as a driver but if ever his shot will be on it will be a game like this - especially early on when everyone believes we don't have a chance at victory. Besides, he's quite good at getting fouled on 3pt tries, though we may pushing our luck there.

I've already detailed my defensive strategy which in a nutshell is put people in TD's vicinity - and don't hack at him as the refs can't ignore that - just go for some body contact to give them a chance to call it our way.