Signings, Trades, Rumors including Suns and NBA

[elindholm]

Does anyone know how to find the Suns' team defensive stats in games with Ayton this season versus games without? statmuse.com gives the offensive numbers, and the harsh reality is that the Suns are better offensively without him.

Record: 23-7 with, 18-3 without
Points: 111.8 with, 114.8 without
FG%: .483 with, .474 without (appears to be a slight edge to "with," but...)
3FG: 30.8 attempts per game at .365 with, 33.0 attempts per game at .364 without (so they shoot more threes without Ayton, and make them at the same clip)
Assists: 26.4 with, 26.7 without
Turnovers: 14.0 with, 11.0 without (this one is damning -- the turnovers aren't Ayton's necessarily, but force-feeding him is still a low-percentage play)
Steals: 8.3 with, 9.1 without
Blocks: 3.5 with, 5.2 without (surprising)
FTA: 21.6 with, 18.1 without (offensively, this is the best number in Ayton's favor -- he's not getting to the line himself, but his presence puts extra pressure on the defense)

So I'd really like to see opposition FG% and 3FG% numbers.

 

[Mainstreet]

There are so many variations on the trade for Sabonis. I do think the Pacers would want a key player in return.

For the fun of it here is one that puts the trade at near even salary wise.

The Suns would keep Justin Jackson for the minimum.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yclmuoh8

I included Payton so the Pacers wouldn't be missing a point guard.

 

[Finito]

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Ok y’all. Another Flex post….Sabonis? Where there’s smoke, there’s fire but as we’ve seen before, Flex has had his downfalls. I’m not trusting it but dang if this is real….

This is 100% the Suns not wanting to pay Ayton the max if this happens.

 

[Mainstreet]

This is 100% the Suns not wanting to pay Ayton the max if this happens.

This is what it would be or Ayton has decided he wants to be traded.

Actually it could be both if the Suns don't want to max Ayton.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is 100% the Suns not wanting to pay Ayton the max if this happens.

I don't see "100%" here, there's just too many plausible reasons for us to be considering making a move. Personally I don't think we're looking to move him and if we are I don't believe it's simply a case of us going cheap (not that you said that specifically, but it's been offered by others). I'd bet that if we're moving him and DA's camp didn't force it, it's because CP3, Monty and JJ agree it's best for the team - and I find that unlikely.

 

[overseascardfan]

For those pointing out the record without Ayton as justification for dealing him. Remember McGee, Biyombo & Smith are all UFA's this offseason. The only reason PHX has been able to maintain without Ayton is because of the depth. Trade Ayton and lose the three other bigs and PHX is a small team next year.

 

[Mainstreet]

For those pointing out the record without Ayton as justification for dealing him. Remember McGee, Biyombo & Smith are all UFA's this offseason. The only reason PHX has been able to maintain without Ayton is because of the depth. Trade Ayton and lose the three other bigs and PHX is a small team next year.

I wouldn't use that as a reason to trade Ayton but hopefully the Suns could keep at least one of McGee or Biyombo.

 

[SirStefan32]

I love Sabonis, but there is zero chance I;d trade Ayton for him. Now if the Suns were to lose Ayton, Sabonis would be near the top of my "replacement" list, but Ayton is a much better player due to his defense. This team is as good as they are because of the defense, and DA is a huge part of that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I love Sabonis, but there is zero chance I;d trade Ayton for him. Now if the Suns were to lose Ayton, Sabonis would be near the top of my "replacement" list, but Ayton is a much better player due to his defense. This team is as good as they are because of the defense, and DA is a huge part of that.

Swapping out Sabonis for Ayton smells like the Googs for McDyess mess all over again to me.

That said... I don’t know what the hell is the right move with Ayton at this point. It’s his fourth season and he’s still space cadet-ing in far too many games or portions of games and just doesn’t impose his will in enough games to believe he’ll do so in the future to not make a MAX deal Uber frustrating/limiting to build a title contending team in the future.

And yet... this team has incredible chemistry and he’s a part of that and we’ve likely got this year and next year to go get that which has eluded all us suffering Suns fans for so long. Do we give up on that chemistry?

Also, Is this just another JJ situation? If it is, I sincerely hope we learned something from that which is... don’t care if Ayton doesn’t want us to match an RFA offer. Match it then control the teams destiny from there.

 

[Covert Rain]

Swapping out Sabonis for Ayton smells like the Googs for McDyess mess all over again to me.

So this. Unless we are not giving up Ayton and getting him to fill the PF spot I say pass. He will get next to no time at C anyway. We have a log jam at that position.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm sure James Jones has fielded calls involving trades from probably almost every team in the NBA. This goes for the Pacers as well.

If the Suns were to trade Ayton it would likely be during the summer in a sign and trade where his contract has more value.

Besides, a major trade now might mess up chemistry.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So this. Unless we are not giving up Ayton and getting him to fill the PF spot I say pass. He will get next to no time at C anyway. We have a log jam at that position.

Same.

 

[SirStefan32]

Swapping out Sabonis for Ayton smells like the Googs for McDyess mess all over again to me.

That said... I don’t know what the hell is the right move with Ayton at this point. It’s his fourth season and he’s still space cadet-ing in far too many games or portions of games and just doesn’t impose his will in enough games to believe he’ll do so in the future to not make a MAX deal Uber frustrating/limiting to build a title contending team in the future.

And yet... this team has incredible chemistry and he’s a part of that and we’ve likely got this year and next year to go get that which has eluded all us suffering Suns fans for so long. Do we give up on that chemistry?

Also, Is this just another JJ situation? If it is, I sincerely hope we learned something from that which is... don’t care if Ayton doesn’t want us to match an RFA offer. Match it then control the teams destiny from there.

100% agree! I couldn't care less about what he asks JJ to do. Tell him you will match no matter what, BUT you are willing to meet him halfway before it gets to the restricted free agency. "DA, you are the heart of this team on defense. We value you way too much to not match an offer anyone gives you. We would be idiots to do that. We value you so much that we want to make sure it doesn't even hit the RFA. We want to pay you more, so let's meet in the middle between the max and what we can offer you, and call it a day."

 

[Finito]

100% agree! I couldn't care less about what he asks JJ to do. Tell him you will match no matter what, BUT you are willing to meet him halfway before it gets to the restricted free agency. "DA, you are the heart of this team on defense. We value you way too much to not match an offer anyone gives you. We would be idiots to do that. We value you so much that we want to make sure it doesn't even hit the RFA. We want to pay you more, so let's meet in the middle between the max and what we can offer you, and call it a day."

Why would Ayton do that? Make no mistake someone will give him the max.

 

[Finito]

Does anyone know how to find the Suns' team defensive stats in games with Ayton this season versus games without? statmuse.com gives the offensive numbers, and the harsh reality is that the Suns are better offensively without him.

Record: 23-7 with, 18-3 without
Points: 111.8 with, 114.8 without
FG%: .483 with, .474 without (appears to be a slight edge to "with," but...)
3FG: 30.8 attempts per game at .365 with, 33.0 attempts per game at .364 without (so they shoot more threes without Ayton, and make them at the same clip)
Assists: 26.4 with, 26.7 without
Turnovers: 14.0 with, 11.0 without (this one is damning -- the turnovers aren't Ayton's necessarily, but force-feeding him is still a low-percentage play)
Steals: 8.3 with, 9.1 without
Blocks: 3.5 with, 5.2 without (surprising)
FTA: 21.6 with, 18.1 without (offensively, this is the best number in Ayton's favor -- he's not getting to the line himself, but his presence puts extra pressure on the defense)

So I'd really like to see opposition FG% and 3FG% numbers.

I know I’m just an uneducated basketball fan but the suns numbers look good no matter who’s on the floor outside of Payton.

Before Ayton got hurt he was #1 in the league at C when switching on to guards. I think he was holding them to low 30s. That’s super rare to find a big center that can switch and defend like that. It’s pretty much him and BAM in the NBA that can.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Why would Ayton do that? Make no mistake someone will give him the max.

Yeah... he ain’t doing that.

That said, there are only three teams with cap room. Orlando, SA and one other also ran I can’t remember.

SA ain’t signing him to a MAX deal. Orlando might but is that where Ayton really wants to be? He might not have a lot of Max offers to choose from.

 

[Finito]

Yeah... he ain’t doing that.

That said, there are only three teams with cap room. Orlando, SA and one other also ran I can’t remember.

SA ain’t signing him to a MAX deal. Orlando might but is that where Ayton really wants to be? He might not have a lot of Max offers to choose from.

The team everyone keeps saying is Detroit.

I don’t hold it against anyone for chasing money especially if you think you deserve it and if someone is willing to pay you it then you deserve it.

I don’t think it will happen but if it does I get it.

I think we lose Cam we can’t afford to pay him. So say you pay Ayton the max and lose Cam or you trade for Sabonis who only makes 20 million and keep Cam

1: Ayton
or
2: Sabonis+Cam Johnson

Which would you rather have moving forward?

 

[Mainstreet]

The team everyone keeps saying is Detroit.

I don’t hold it against anyone for chasing money especially if you think you deserve it and if someone is willing to pay you it then you deserve it.

I don’t think it will happen but if it does I get it.

I think we lose Cam we can’t afford to pay him. So say you pay Ayton the max and lose Cam or you trade for Sabonis who only makes 20 million and keep Cam

1: Ayton
or
2: Sabonis+Cam Johnson

Which would you rather have moving forward?

I don't think it comes down to losing Cam Johnson. Saric and Shamet should be moveable pieces.

However, if the Suns were wanting to trade Ayton, the way I would look at it, the center position is easier to replace than the power forward position.

If the Suns traded Ayton for Sabonis they might be able to plug someone in at center and keep on going. Of course they save some money as well.

This is not a pro trade Ayton argument but rather trying to put some logic behind it.

 

[GatorAZ]

The team everyone keeps saying is Detroit.

I don’t hold it against anyone for chasing money especially if you think you deserve it and if someone is willing to pay you it then you deserve it.

I don’t think it will happen but if it does I get it.

I think we lose Cam we can’t afford to pay him. So say you pay Ayton the max and lose Cam or you trade for Sabonis who only makes 20 million and keep Cam

1: Ayton
or
2: Sabonis+Cam Johnson

Which would you rather have moving forward?

Bottom line is if a Gobert or Towns swap isn’t available then Sabonis is probably the best they could do should Sarver force JJ’s hand. I expect Cam’s ascent to continue thru the playoffs and be up for a Mikal-caliber contract.

 

[Finito]

I don't think it comes down to losing Cam Johnson. Saric and Shamet should be moveable pieces.

However, if the Suns were wanting to trade Ayton, the way I would look at it, the center position is easier to replace than the power forward position.

If the Suns traded Ayton for Sabonis they might be able to plug someone in at center and keep on going. Of course they save some money as well.

This is not a pro trade Ayton argument but rather trying to put some logic behind it.

Right. I’m not pro trade Ayton but I get it if the move is made

 

[JCSunsfan]

Any swap of Sabonis for Ayton would depend on all the other assets that would have to come as part of that exchange. Multiple first-round picks, players etc.

 

[Muggz]

I think I understand why the Front office didn't give DA the bag. Maybe trying to light a fire under his ass. Welp I think its safe to say it didn't work.
Now what?
No trade I can think of would be much of an upgrade, most would be The Suns taking it in the rear.
Sabonis is a lateral AT BEST.
If they trade Cam Johnston now I swear to god I'm giving up and moving to California and riding Steph or LeBrons dik from now on.

 

[Finito]

I think I understand why the Front office didn't give DA the bag. Maybe trying to light a fire under his ass. Welp I think its safe to say it didn't work.
Now what?
No trade I can think of would be much of an upgrade, most would be The Suns taking it in the rear.
Sabonis is a lateral AT BEST.
If they trade Cam Johnston now I swear to god I'm giving up and moving to California and riding Steph or LeBrons dik from now on.

Outside of getting hurt/Covid this has been by far his best season what are you talking about

 

[Cheesebeef]

The team everyone keeps saying is Detroit.

I don’t hold it against anyone for chasing money especially if you think you deserve it and if someone is willing to pay you it then you deserve it.

I don’t think it will happen but if it does I get it.

I think we lose Cam we can’t afford to pay him. So say you pay Ayton the max and lose Cam or you trade for Sabonis who only makes 20 million and keep Cam

1: Ayton
or
2: Sabonis+Cam Johnson

Which would you rather have moving forward?

Man... when you put ir that way, I probably go 2. Cam is turning into a hell of a player. He’s someone you can at least depend upon to play his role and play it very well, every game.

And I think our offense could be near unstoppable with Sabonis. I just don’t know how rough the fallout would be on D.

 

[Muggz]

Outside of getting hurt/Covid this has been by far his best season what are you talking about

I'm talking about 208 of 328 available games.
If you take out his first year when he played most of the games.
He's 137 of 246.
If WE sign him to the Max this summer there should be a stipulation that he actually plays.