Silent Snap Count Required:

Catfish

Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Posts
4,551
Reaction score
64
Several posters have noted that despite the complete 'whuppin' that our Red Birds layed on the 'Niners, two of our offensive linemen had an atrocious start to that game. Most were alarmed that Jared Veldheer was initially penalized twice for jumping the count, and then forced into a holding call, immediately after when he failed to get off when the ball was snapped due to missing another snap count. Massie too had a bad beginning, but did not draw the same penalties. Arians was later to learn that the opponents crowd noise prevented the ones on the perimeter of our O-line, (Massie and Veldheer), from hearing the signal calls at the line of scrimmage and that it required a silent snap count to fix the problem.

In one of his presser's after that game, Arians remarked that he was saddened that we allowed so many tickets to get into the hands of our opponents. He lamented that hopefully that will soon be fixed. Sadly, that is not very likely to happen due to a number of reasons, but the most glaring is that it will take more than just one generation of fans to create complete loyalty to our beloved Cardinals.

One needs only to look back at what our fast growing valley was like as it longed for sports recognition just before our Cardinals arrived from St. Louis. We had wildly loyal Sun Devil fans who were clamoring for greater recognition on the national front, and with no professional football team here, it was an easy sell for Jerry jones and his 'Cowboys' from Dallas, (a very natural fit), for this wildly western and fiercely independent state. For the first ten years or so of Cardinals Football here in the valley, there were easily twice as many Cowboys fans as Cardinals fans here.

Then came the situation created by a burgeoning spring baseball training season that was drawing more and more winter visitors into the valley. As they began to retire, they too, began purchasing tickets to Cardinals games, (just not Cardinals tickets). They each brought their loyalties with them from their snow burdened states and cities, and bought tickets in droves to celebrate some of what they missed from their previous lives in the cold country. Seldom were there as many Cardinals fans at the games in Sun Devil Stadium on Sundays as there were opponents fans.

Then, the league, and its owners began to expand and cater to Television, and by selling advertising, began to lure big business into the football market which suddenly hiked the price of season tickets in most franchises, some of which simply out stretched the pockets of everyday home town fans. Corporations began gobbling up season tickets in droves and giving them to prospective clients as perks, once again watering down the ability of the Cardinals to sell season tickets to loyal local fans. At about that same time, (due to great advertising of the Valley itself to corporations), and the fact that many corporations began using Phoenix as a convention center for their employees and clients, many large corporations began re-locating to the valley of the sun and all that it offered to lovers of the sun in winter. Yet again more season tickets were sold to people whose loyalty was not to our Cardinals.

Now we have a fan base that can fill the stadium with red, but an economy which precludes the average family head from being able to afford taking the family to stadium with season tickets, or even for a single game in many cases. Meanwhile, corporations still use the season tickets as 'tax write-off' perks for their employees, (many who simply re-sell them for profit to opponents fans on game days), or who simply don't care enough about the sport to see that those valuable tickets end up in the hands of fans loyal to the Big Red.

I see this as an on-going problem that will linger for years, until the league, the owners, and the players association, can once again find a way to make season tickets affordable to the average head of household here in the valley. I personally do not see a way around this situation, and the only thing that I can stress is making sure that the real Cardinals fans are educated enough about the game so as not assist the opponents when they cheer, by simply cheering because the opponents are.
 
Last edited:

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
Its a business.

The NFL cares about your money, not your loyalty.
 

DeAnna

Just A Face in The Crowd
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Posts
7,282
Reaction score
760
Location
Goodyear, AZ
Yeah .. no. I'm not buying that opponents crowd noise caused them. The 49'er fans were mostly concentrated around the 20 yd line behind their bench - and they did make THAT much noise, lol.
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
72,774
Reaction score
24,380
Location
Killjoy Central
The crowd noise (when we had the ball) came mostly from Cards' fans, not Niners' fans.
 

conraddobler

I want my 2$
Joined
Sep 1, 2002
Posts
20,052
Reaction score
237
Easy way to fix this.

Completely shun any season ticket holder who allows their tickets to end up it the hands of select opposing teams fans. I can almost understand the Cowboys since they suck now and since they are close and they are NOT a division rival anymore fine, go ahead although to me that's pure sacrilege. Right now I'd have the following list.

No 49ers, no Seahawks, No Rams, No Steelers and No Packers fans... The Packers have recently beat us in a playoff game and are NFC dominance rivals. I'd even say New England but that's just me, that one probably would not stick but that's at least a good start so it's not like saying Bengals fans would be a problem or a host of teams that would be a problem just a select few.

KC does this, YOU as the season ticket holder ARE held responsible by ALL the fans who sit within a few rows of you of who you let sit in your seats.

They would be ok for instance with selling your tickets to say Cardinal fans or something like that, some team they do not have a huge rivalry with. So it would be a minor offense if you sold them for something like that.

However there are teams that would be no go's. Mostly any team from the AFC that is dominant or any team that had ever beaten the team in an important game recently or if in the playoffs forever.

Thus in KC never sell your tickets to in order a RADIERS fan, Broncos fan, Steelers fan, Colts fan, Chargers fan, Bills fan or an New England fan. ANY of these things is like a capital season ticket holder crime and it WILL NOT MATTER if you yourself did not sell them to those particular fans, YOU will suffer the wrath.

They know who you are, they know who your family is and if you sell your tickets and some God forsaken Steeler fan or Bronco fan or Raider fan is ever in that seat YOU will be shunned without mercy and pelted with unmentionable stuff for at LEAST a year if not more.

To the opposing fans themselves the are actually very nice by NFL standards. Not saying it's a good idea especially if you are a Raiders fan but you probably will live. This in any case is probably going to go better for you than if it was flipped around and a Chiefs fan was at their house.

THAT's how you stop that.
 
Last edited:

JCSunsfan

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 24, 2002
Posts
22,114
Reaction score
6,547
Jumbotron "Quiet Please, Carson is Working" message. Problem solved.

They need quit complaining about the fan noise and train them.
 

TigToad

Hall of Famer
Joined
Apr 17, 2003
Posts
1,787
Reaction score
417
Location
Bally’s Sports needs to go away
Sitting on the visiting side lines, I can tell you the majority of the seats around us are held by scalpers. Every week the people behind us for three rows (almost complete rows) are held by tickets that are on stub hub and have been since day 1 of the stadium.

The Cardinals' can get the data for which seats are sold since the electronic transfers are a thing, I cannot. If they want this changed, they will start pulling season ticket holders of people who regularly sell their tickets. They won't do that.
 

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,623
Reaction score
15,955
Location
Plainfield, Il.
This problem will never go away. There are people put there who actually INVEST by purchasing season tickets and then selling them at a profit. Works when your team is good, but even if they suck the investor will probably do no worse than break even.

The ONLY way to stop it would be to not allow tickets to be sold for more than face value and just how do you control that?

The stubhubs of the world is simply legalized scalping. It's never going away.

Had you invested in the Chicago Blackhawks you'd be raking in the doe. Same for Green Bay and now the Chicago Cubs. Hell, if you're a Blackhawks fan with season tickets you would make thousands on your investment with the biggest reason being there are only 21,000 seats.

Sports is becoming more and more a home spectator venue. Sad but true. The cost for even 1 baseball game is absurd.

That being said I will be in Arizona for the Raven's Monday Night Game! :)
 

conraddobler

I want my 2$
Joined
Sep 1, 2002
Posts
20,052
Reaction score
237
Yeah here in KC it's been sold out since before ticket scalping took off as a business.

Plus in Missouri scalping is illegal and it took stub hub and all those online places to really make a dent.

Kansas could scalp and did but it prevented it AT the game which held the lid down a lot for long enough.

So absent PSL's there isn't any fix for it and I don't wish that on anyone.
 

Shane

Comin for you!
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
69,075
Reaction score
39,026
Location
Las Vegas
The crowd noise (when we had the ball) came mostly from Cards' fans, not Niners' fans.

I wasn't even there and I call complete BS on this ... Been to too many games to believe it's cards fans that were so loud on offense a silent count need to be used...
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,798
Reaction score
14,743
Location
Chandler, Az
I wasn't even there and I call complete BS on this ... Been to too many games to believe it's cards fans that were so loud on offense a silent count need to be used...

Yep

The place was dead quiet when the Cardinals were on offense after the 2 defensive TDs silenced the Niners fans in attendance. Occasionally a Larry chant from Cardinals fans would trickle into the begining of a snap count though.
 

Big D

...and STILL...
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Posts
817
Reaction score
381
Location
Chandler
What it seemed like to me was that the 9ers fans would start to get loud and make noise when the Cards had the ball and then for some unknown reason a lot of Cardinals fans would try to "shout down" the 9ers fans by booing or yelling over them which obviously only created even more noise.

Most of us that post on this message board would be amazed how unknowledgeable the average person in attendance is. I actually found myself having to explain the concept of a safety to a "fan" clad in Cardinals gear on Sunday :shock:
 

football karma

Michael snuggles the cap space
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Posts
15,245
Reaction score
14,305
my take:

1. I think BA is being a bit over dramatic about this, but that being said:

2. a fair number of 49er fans were there -- they were loud on the Cards first series and then two Kap pick-6s shut them up

3. Its a loud building -- even the 7-9k 49er fans that were there can make noise and be heard -- expecially when everyone else is being quiet because the Cards were on offense

4. The team has done all that one could reasonably expect it to do -- its made the tix for certain fan bases more expensive and/or forced them to buy another game, etc. The reality is: if reselling tix is legal, i dont think you can cut somebody off for reselling tickets.
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
72,774
Reaction score
24,380
Location
Killjoy Central
I wasn't even there and I call complete BS on this ... Been to too many games to believe it's cards fans that were so loud on offense a silent count need to be used...

I was there and saw it myself. We are mobile for much of the game too - following the action along the top of the lower concourse. Saw it all over the stadium. Do you think the message on the jumbotron is to tell the opposing fans to be calm? No, it is obviously for our fans. It's a known issue.
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
72,774
Reaction score
24,380
Location
Killjoy Central
What it seemed like to me was that the 9ers fans would start to get loud and make noise when the Cards had the ball and then for some unknown reason a lot of Cardinals fans would try to "shout down" the 9ers fans by booing or yelling over them which obviously only created even more noise.

THIS

Saw plenty of this too.
 

Shane

Comin for you!
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
69,075
Reaction score
39,026
Location
Las Vegas
Yep

The place was dead quiet when the Cardinals were on offense after the 2 defensive TDs silenced the Niners fans in attendance. Occasionally a Larry chant from Cardinals fans would trickle into the begining of a snap count though.

I was there and saw it myself. We are mobile for much of the game too - following the action along the top of the lower concourse. Saw it all over the stadium. Do you think the message on the jumbotron is to tell the opposing fans to be calm? No, it is obviously for our fans. It's a known issue.

THIS

Saw plenty of this too.

Madcard gets it..

I don't care if you were there to be honest… I have been to no less than 50 games at UofP Stadium and when the cards are on offense it has not been a consistent problem needing a silent snap count on offense for OUR team.

Have never even read one peep about it until this weekend. Sure when the Packers or Cowboys come to town which is also pathetic… But on the regular? Hardly… If you feel it was Cardinal fans trying to out do Niner fans then obviously the bandwagon is bigger then we thought because those are some damn clueless fans… Seen to many offensive series in that stadium to be convinced that this is a regular and consistent problem there. Im thinking there were more 49er fans than you think and the red they wear blends in all to well.
 
Last edited:

DeAnna

Just A Face in The Crowd
Joined
Jun 13, 2002
Posts
7,282
Reaction score
760
Location
Goodyear, AZ
What it seemed like to me was that the 9ers fans would start to get loud and make noise when the Cards had the ball and then for some unknown reason a lot of Cardinals fans would try to "shout down" the 9ers fans by booing or yelling over them which obviously only created even more noise.

THIS.

You can blame the 'new' fans for this, lol
 

MadCardDisease

Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
20,798
Reaction score
14,743
Location
Chandler, Az
3. Its a loud building -- even the 7-9k 49er fans that were there can make noise and be heard -- expecially when everyone else is being quiet because the Cards were on offense

This is very true. On the Niners final drive, the stadium maybe had a 15-20K fans left in thier seats. We were still able to generate a ton of noise to fluster Kapernick.
 

Brian in Mesa

Advocatus Diaboli
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
72,774
Reaction score
24,380
Location
Killjoy Central
Madcard gets it..

I don't care if you were there to be honest… I have been to no less than 50 games at UofP Stadium and when the cards are on offense it has not been a consistent problem needing a silent snap count on offense for OUR team.

Have never even read one peep about it until this weekend. Sure when the Packers or Cowboys come to town which is also pathetic… But on the regular? Hardly… If you feel it was Cardinal fans trying to out do Niner fans then obviously the bandwagon is bigger then we thought because those are some damn clueless fans… Seen to many offensive series in that stadium to be convinced that this is a regular and consistent problem there. Im thinking there were more 49er fans than you think and the red they wear blends in all to well.

How many 40-point blowouts have you been to? Like I've said repeatedly since the game - chants of "Larry !! Larry !! Larry !!" are one thing, but the fans need to know to **** when we huddle or walk up to the line. There were plenty of times they did not on Sunday - which is why the graphic was posted repeatedly asking the home team fans to quiet down.

Even during our SB run - there was a graphic telling our fans to shush because "Kurt was working." You were at those games. You saw the graphic too, right?
 

splitsecond

ASFN Addict
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Posts
5,582
Reaction score
1,536
Location
Chandler, AZ
We are never going to eliminate the opposing fans. Not in a town with no persona that is inhabited by the biggest bunch of trend hopping nomads in the world. There are a lot of great people in valley, but far, far too many cast off opportunists from other places.
 

MrYeahBut

4 Food groups: beans, chili, cheese, bacon
Supporting Member
Joined
May 20, 2002
Posts
17,857
Reaction score
13,472
Location
Albq
I sadly missed the greatest playoff game ever against the Packers. But I was there the week before for the last regular season against them. Cards were drubbed about 90-zip in a meaningless game but I just hated the fact the stadium was full of those clowns cheering Go Pack Go. I fear the same will happen this year too.
 

MrYeahBut

4 Food groups: beans, chili, cheese, bacon
Supporting Member
Joined
May 20, 2002
Posts
17,857
Reaction score
13,472
Location
Albq
Actually, I absolutely loved it when McCarthy fell to his knees when the Cards won the game in OT... made doubly sweet because my wife says McCarthy reminds her of the Burger King creepy dude.
 

Bert

Walkin' on Sunshine
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Posts
10,139
Reaction score
3,234
Location
Arizona
It sucks so bad that our last 3 games are against the Vikings, Packers and Seahawks.

All three of those games will be swarmed with opposing team fans. I have made my peace with it as a native, Arizona is what it is, a transplant state full of fans of other teams... :( What I do worry about is the psychological effect it has on the players.

It has to be discouraging, frustrating, annoying, flat out infuriating as a player, especially on a good team like this, to have to deal with crowd noise in your own stadium. I'm ashamed every single time it happens.

I hope Arians just prepares the guys for it. Dont let it bother you, we have a lot of great fans, they are just ******. lol jk :)

People have to understand the prices these games go for. Even for loyal Cardinal fans. You can sell those tickets for HUNDREDS of dollars over face value sometimes. After a Cards Steelers game in UofP I gave the guy next to me crap at the next home game because he wasn't there for that game and he was like dude; I sold those tickets and made HALF of my season ticket money back and took my wife on vacation.

People all have circumstances, and everyone has a price. I dont think it's a problem that is ever going away.

FWIW it's not just us, I was astounded last year in the playoffs at how many Cowboy fans there were in Lambeau. It was LOUD on TV when the Cowboys scored. Obviously our problem is much worse, but I'm just saying, the days of an ALL hometown crowd are pretty rare in todays world.
 
Last edited:

ajcardfan

I see you.
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
38,563
Reaction score
25,561
IMO, the reason we went to silent counts at home is NOT due to 49ers fans. But, once they started to try the "defense" chant, Cards fans, showing rather poor judgment, got loud to drown them out entirely to show them this is "our nest".
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
38,563
Reaction score
25,561
It sucks so bad that our last 3 games are against the Vikings, Packers and Seahawks.

All three of those games will be swarmed with opposing team fans. I have made my peace with it as a native, Arizona is what it is, a transplant state full of fans of other teams... :( What I do worry about is the psychological effect it has on the players.

It has to be discouraging, frustrating, annoying, flat out infuriating as a player, especially on a good team like this, to have to deal with crowd noise in your own stadium. I'm ashamed every single time it happens.

I hope Arians just prepares the guys for it. Dont let it bother you, we have a lot of great fans, they are just ******. lol jk :)

People have to understand the prices these games go for. Even for loyal Cardinal fans. You can sell those tickets for HUNDREDS of dollars over face value sometimes. After a Cards Steelers game in UofP I gave the guy next to me crap at the next home game because he wasn't there for that game and he was like dude; I sold those tickets and made HALF of my season ticket money back and took my wife on vacation.

People all have circumstances, and everyone has a price. I dont think it's a problem that is ever going away.

FWIW it's not just us, I was astounded last year in the playoffs at how many Cowboy fans there were in Lambeau. It was LOUD on TV when the Cowboys scored. Obviously our problem is much worse, but I'm just saying, the days of an ALL hometown crowd are pretty rare in todays world.

You know, this is happening in all stadiums to some extent now. I mean, there were a surprising number of Chiefs fans in Lambeau field yesterday. Charles even did a Lambeau leap after a TD in a group of Chiefs fans who had front row seats in the endzones. There isn't a franchise that packs their stadium 100% with home fans anymore. It just doesn't happen.

After all, it was just a week ago Cards fans were getting props for their turnout and noise level in Chicago.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
553,678
Posts
5,410,687
Members
6,319
Latest member
route66
Top