Sixers get Jimmy Butler for a six-pack of beer and some dirty socks

[GatorAZ]

Wall had a great game tonight in a W. Price just went up.

Washington is begging to trade that contract and start over. Considering their payroll and expectations they’re a bigger dumpster fire than we are.

 

[AzStevenCal]

How in the world is John Wall going to take us to a championship? He puts up gaudy numbers, I'll give you that. But the dude has averaged 44 wins per year in the last 5 years... in the East. What will he win with this team... in the West? I get the attraction to him. I do. I've been lured across the fence on him multiple times. But John Wall is a lot like Russell Westbrook. At first glance you swear you're seeing a superstar, but upon closer examination you realize how hollow all those gaudy numbers are.

Yes, if we want to just win more games with little to no chance of winning a championship than bring in Wall.

On this we agree.

 

[AzStevenCal]

These aren't micro-fracture career crippling surgeries we're talking about. These are arthroscopic clean-up surgeries. The type joe mixon came back in two weeks from. He's an all-nba player. Grab him at a discount while you still can, contract be damned. Capspace does us no good if no one wants to come here.

They were to help ease the chronic pain he has in both knees.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Wall had a great game tonight in a W. Price just went up.

He had a good game, hardly great. And he could have 10 great games in a row and his price wouldn't go up. Perhaps the interest in him will go up but not the price. He's a huge gamble, the kind you might take if you're just a player away from challenging the Warriors. But it's not the kind of gamble you make when your next step up is to try and crawl out of the cellar.

 

[Hoop Head]

I thought Houston was willing to give up 4 1st round picks for Butler? I know they are likely a contender this year and the next 2 years or so with Butler, Paul, and Harden so the first two picks would be in the 20's but the later picks might be really good. I would almost prefer that to what Philly offered. If nothing else 1st round picks are always a trade chip and will have more value than middling players like Saric. Covington is a nice piece but Saric is average at best and will come off the bench for the Wolves. Bayless may be bought out, they don't need another PG, especially an overpaid and inefficient PG like Bayless.

 

[motion3]

“None of this would feel so dire if not for the one development that explains more than any other why the Wizards look broken or at least stalled out: Wall's game has plateaued, and perhaps even dropped off, since the end of the 2016-17 season.

He never evolved into a 3-point threat. His speed -- the thing that makes Wall special -- manifests only here and there. Last season, only Dirk Nowitzki and DeMarcus Cousinsspent a higher percentage of court time than Wall standing still or walking, per Second Spectrum tracking data -- a stat that set off alarm bells throughout the league and within the Wizards.“. Ugh

 

[Phrazbit]

It might be the system, but fancy stats liked Covington more than Butler straight up last season. He rates out as the best defensive SF in the NBA and was top 5 the year before too. Not that those fancy stats didn't like Butler though, they also rate him as one of the best SGs in the league.

The Wolves were screwed, given how terrible their situation was I'm surprised they even got this much for him. Saric and Covington are quality players, with how ugly Butler was making things I figured they would be looking at a salary dump and some late round 1sts.

I feel bad for Wolves fans, Butler crapped on their franchise but there has also gotta be a feeling that Butler's problems had merit, a real chance Towns is flat out lazy and Wiggins just kinda sucks.

 

[Phrazbit]

“None of this would feel so dire if not for the one development that explains more than any other why the Wizards look broken or at least stalled out: Wall's game has plateaued, and perhaps even dropped off, since the end of the 2016-17 season.

He never evolved into a 3-point threat. His speed -- the thing that makes Wall special -- manifests only here and there. Last season, only Dirk Nowitzki and DeMarcus Cousinsspent a higher percentage of court time than Wall standing still or walking, per Second Spectrum tracking data -- a stat that set off alarm bells throughout the league and within the Wizards.“. Ugh

Yikes. Scary that they viewed Howard as a potential solution though. If you've got a team with motivation problems adding Howard to the mix is about as helpful as bringing them to an opium tent.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yikes. Scary that they viewed Howard as a potential solution though. If you've got a team with motivation problems adding Howard to the mix is about as helpful as bringing them to an opium tent.

Howard was a gamble but he came cheaper than Gortat, who has underachieved and is now complaining about playing time for the Clippers. If they get a motivated Dwight Howard, he might help them in the playoffs. The problem is they need to get back to the playoffs and it's not looking like they will. I would have said they would be a playoff team before this season started, probably finishing behind Boston, Philly, and Toronto out East. They're not a contender but in that second tier with the Pacers and Heat.

 

[sunsfan88]

Watch him play now and then watch him play 2 or 3 years ago when he was actually still good. Read the stories about his relationships with his teammates. Watch how poorly his team plays despite very high expectations (they're as bad as we are). Then, look at his age, the fact he's had 9 major injuries in his career and 3 knee procedures in the last few years. Remember the hell we went through with Amare and Eric's knee problems, add in his upcoming 207 million dollar contract and that will tell you why I'm so down on him. I'm not worried about saving cap space but that kind of money goes far beyond normal, only a prime Lebron should be taking up that much of your cap IMO.

I think John Wall is a real possibility for the Suns. Besides the need for a PG, Wall is represented by Rich Paul who is close with current GM James Jones (via LeBron connection).

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think John Wall is a real possibility for the Suns. Besides the need for a PG, Wall is represented by Rich Paul who is close with current GM James Jones (via LeBron connection).

Wouldn't it be funny if it turns out that Ryan was fired because he refused to go down the Rich Paul road again?

If, IF, we make the trade, I will look pretty foolish for awhile as he will surely make us better in the short run. But I'd be very surprised if there was even one "yay Wall" voice 3 years from now when we're looking at Wall's corpse and realizing we still owe him 130 million.

 

[overseascardfan]

Not only did MIN trade him for sense on the dollar, they gave up LaVine and what turned out to be Markannen for him and if Dunn pans out then Butler really screwed them over.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not only did MIN trade him for sense on the dollar, they gave up LaVine and what turned out to be Markannen for him and if Dunn pans out then Butler really screwed them over.

They did better getting rid of him than they did trading for him but yeah, Butler was a really bad move all the way around for them. But Butler was a known head-case after the way he sabotaged the Bulls so I have no sympathy for Thibs and company. You crawl in bed with pigs, best enjoy the mud.

 

[Dan H]

Wouldn't it be funny if it turns out that Ryan was fired because he refused to go down the Rich Paul road again?

If, IF, we make the trade, I will look pretty foolish for awhile as he will surely make us better in the short run. But I'd be very surprised if there was even one "yay Wall" voice 3 years from now when we're looking at Wall's corpse and realizing we still owe him 130 million.

Nonsense, if he's dead, we don't have to pay him. Pretty sure we can apply for a deceased player exception.

 

[hcsilla]

Wall is still a great player but with this contract, injury-history and at this point of the Suns rebuilding he is just a wrong target.

 

[slinslin]

Covington and Saric are good players but yeah not a great haul

Saric is not a good player, his stats are actually very very close to Marquese Chriss.

 

[Errntknght]

Saric is not a good player, his stats are actually very very close to Marquese Chriss.

Saric scores twice as many points as Chriss, on more effocoemt shooting, much more efficient from 3 and FT line, gets more rebounds and assists. Chriss gets more blocks but that's it. Oh yeah, they're very, very close = not!

 

[slinslin]

Saric scores twice as many points as Chriss, on more effocoemt shooting, much more efficient from 3 and FT line, gets more rebounds and assists. Chriss gets more blocks but that's it. Oh yeah, they're very, very close = not!

Not sure what stats you are looking at but 50%TS in his first year, 49% TS this year is the opposite of efficient

"gets more rebounds" - no he does not , his rebounding% is lower actually

"gets more assists" - small difference


career numbers per 36

Chriss - 14.4 / 8.5 / 2.1 / 1.5 / 1.3 43.7%FG
Saric - 13.1 / 7.8 / 2.4 / 0.3 / 0.4 42.7%FG

Furthermore - Saric has NEVER had a positive DBPM in his career and only once positive OBPM.

 

[Chaplin]

Not sure what stats you are looking at but 50%TS in his first year, 49% TS this year is the opposite of efficient

"gets more rebounds" - no he does not , his rebounding% is lower actually

"gets more assists" - small difference


career numbers per 36

Chriss - 14.4 / 8.5 / 2.1 / 1.5 / 1.3 43.7%FG
Saric - 13.1 / 7.8 / 2.4 / 0.3 / 0.4 42.7%FG

Furthermore - Saric has NEVER had a positive DBPM in his career and only once positive OBPM.

Per 36’s don’t matter in this case. You have to look at real stats, not fake ones.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not sure what stats you are looking at but 50%TS in his first year, 49% TS this year is the opposite of efficient

"gets more rebounds" - no he does not , his rebounding% is lower actually

"gets more assists" - small difference


career numbers per 36

Chriss - 14.4 / 8.5 / 2.1 / 1.5 / 1.3 43.7%FG
Saric - 13.1 / 7.8 / 2.4 / 0.3 / 0.4 42.7%FG

Furthermore - Saric has NEVER had a positive DBPM in his career and only once positive OBPM.

Chriss would have to actually make it 36 minutes to make these stats worthwhile....and whats the relevance? We're not talking about Chriss.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chriss would have to actually make it 36 minutes to make these stats worthwhile....and whats the relevance? We're not talking about Chriss.

Slin is fixated.

 

[Errntknght]

The stats I gave were for last season and were per game stats. Yep, Saric played more minutes because his he was more productive.

 

[Yuma]

poo, bottom line, if they ended up giving away Butler for nothing, I would have taken him for that on the Suns! LMAO. Who cares what Chriss is doing?