Skelton the starter (Kolb out with concussion)

[TJ]

The way I see it, the trade was a failure from the minute it was executed. For what we gave up, and the contract that was given, that deal should only go towards an actual 'Franchise' player.

I wasn't satisfied with what we gave up for compensation, but you also have to consider the market when you talk about value and what a player is worth (both in trade value and monetary compensation). Just looking at this draft (after the rookie pay scale was ratified), for example, Cam Newton is playing with a four-year, $22 mil guaranteed contract before even taking a snap in the NFL. Kolb's contract is five-years $21 mil guaranteed. You and I can complain all we want about what a player gets paid, but in this day in age, you are worth what your contract states you're worth.

We gave a deal similar to what Chicago and the Raiders gave up, and they got proven Pro-Bowl QB's.

Not even close.

We gave up a 2nd and DRC, who apparently was a square peg in Horton's round hole defensive scheme.

Meanwhile, Oakland gave up two first round picks for Palmer who is on the decline and a history of knee and elbow injuries. Think about it. The Raiders won't have a first-round pick until 2014. That's two opportunities for them to draft top-tier talent at that position. Instead, the Raiders got maybe a three-year rental at the position.

The Bears gave up a first, third, and their starting QB in Kyle Orton to get Cutler. While he is an upgrade over Orton, I do think Cutler is somewhat overrated.

The Cards got someone who has a losing record, negative turn over ratio, and very questionable durability concerns throughout his career. The only success that could come out of that deal is if Kolb plays like a top 10 QB, and the chances of that were slim to none.

Seeing as Kolb couldn't touch a football for the Cards until August, his chances of being a Top 10 QB for this season were indeed slim-to-none. It's tough taking a player from one complex offensive scheme, change his habits from that scheme, and then implement another complex scheme all in four weeks; where in an offseason not littered with CBA drama, he'd have had the playbook in hand and practicing with his teammates starting in early March. I can fully understand why he was struggling so bad at the beginning of the year with the timing of his receivers and protection packages (or lack thereof).

What Whiz should have done was pare down the playbook at the beginning of TC and tailor it to Kolb's strengths. He admitted as much a few weeks ago. You saw against Dallas a more composed, confident quarterback who hardly made any mistakes, post-adjustments. That is the Kevin Kolb we should be seeing week in and week out. I was looking forward to him building off of that, but the concussion is going to put a halt to that for now.

From a talent standpoint, I have hardly any reservations about Kolb. Durability is my chief complaint at this point.

 

[nashman]

Well said TJ! If anything the failure is on the coaching staff for not simplifying things like I am sure alot of other staffs did with their new QBs but we just try and heave the whole play ook on a new player and the results were not great. It falls on whiz IMO!

 

[Brian]

Just hope Kevin is okay. Have to think long term with this stuff. A person's health is bigger than the game.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I wasn't satisfied with what we gave up for compensation, but you also have to consider the market when you talk about value and what a player is worth (both in trade value and monetary compensation). Just looking at this draft (after the rookie pay scale was ratified), for example, Cam Newton is playing with a four-year, $22 mil guaranteed contract before even taking a snap in the NFL. Kolb's contract is five-years $21 mil guaranteed. You and I can complain all we want about what a player gets paid, but in this day in age, you are worth what your contract states you're worth.

Not even close.

We gave up a 2nd and DRC, who apparently was a square peg in Horton's round hole defensive scheme.

Meanwhile, Oakland gave up two first round picks for Palmer who is on the decline and a history of knee and elbow injuries. Think about it. The Raiders won't have a first-round pick until 2014. That's two opportunities for them to draft top-tier talent at that position. Instead, the Raiders got maybe a three-year rental at the position.

The Bears gave up a first, third, and their starting QB in Kyle Orton to get Cutler. While he is an upgrade over Orton, I do think Cutler is somewhat overrated.

Seeing as Kolb couldn't touch a football for the Cards until August, his chances of being a Top 10 QB for this season were indeed slim-to-none. It's tough taking a player from one complex offensive scheme, change his habits from that scheme, and then implement another complex scheme all in four weeks; where in an offseason not littered with CBA drama, he'd have had the playbook in hand and practicing with his teammates starting in early March. I can fully understand why he was struggling so bad at the beginning of the year with the timing of his receivers and protection packages (or lack thereof).

What Whiz should have done was pare down the playbook at the beginning of TC and tailor it to Kolb's strengths. He admitted as much a few weeks ago. You saw against Dallas a more composed, confident quarterback who hardly made any mistakes, post-adjustments. That is the Kevin Kolb we should be seeing week in and week out. I was looking forward to him building off of that, but the concussion is going to put a halt to that for now.

From a talent standpoint, I have hardly any reservations about Kolb. Durability is my chief complaint at this point.

While I agree with 99% of this post, the one thing I don't get is several folks have said that he didn't have tme or didn't get a playbook. He did work out with Fitz the entire off-season, I am pretty sure that Fitz has a playbook and I would venture a guess that it was discussed, and probably studyed a bit too.

 

[Cardiac]

While I agree with 99% of this post, the one thing I don't get is several folks have said that he didn't have tme or didn't get a playbook. He did work out with Fitz the entire off-season, I am pretty sure that Fitz has a playbook and I would venture a guess that it was discussed, and probably studyed a bit too.

I thought they had A workout. Maybe it was a couple but it certainly wasn't the entire off-season. An NFL playbook is a precious commodity and not something players hand out like yesterdays newspaper.

 

[old card fan]

Curious

I watched that hit Kolb took from the guys knee. Am I the only one that thinks there's no way that could have caused a concussion? So then I have to ask, whats going on? OCF

 

[WisconsinCard]

I thought they had A workout. Maybe it was a couple but it certainly wasn't the entire off-season. An NFL playbook is a precious commodity and not something players hand out like yesterdays newspaper.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/28495/kolb-larry-fitzgerald-work-out-together

http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/07/...g_azcardinals.html?blockID=540346&feedID=3702


Secret work outs oh ya there is no "behind closed doors" talks or sharing that goes on in the NFL. Why were they so secretive about their workouts? Fitz worked out with several other players in the off season didn't hide those workouts. Things that just make you go HUM!!!!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I watched that hit Kolb took from the guys knee. Am I the only one that thinks there's no way that could have caused a concussion? So then I have to ask, whats going on? OCF

i don't know about "no way it could have caused a concussion" but when I saw it, there was zero part of me that thought to myself "Oh man! his head got lit up there. I hope he doesn't have a concussion!"

 

[Mulli]

Then more concussed you are the more concussed you are likely to be later.

Dr. Mulli

 

[Cheesebeef]

my biggest fear about Kolb isn't his "toughness" it's that his body just isn't strong enough to take the pounding NFL players take on a regular basis. He's been trotted out as a starting QB for the last two seasons and has had a significant amount of injuries that has pushed him out of the lineup in consecutive years. that ain't a good sign.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I watched that hit Kolb took from the guys knee. Am I the only one that thinks there's no way that could have caused a concussion? So then I have to ask, whats going on? OCF

Yeah well, the crash Earnhardt Sr had looked routine by Nascar standards too, and we all know how that turned out

 

[Cardiac]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/28495/kolb-larry-fitzgerald-work-out-together

http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/07/...g_azcardinals.html?blockID=540346&feedID=3702


Secret work outs oh ya there is no "behind closed doors" talks or sharing that goes on in the NFL. Why were they so secretive about their workouts? Fitz worked out with several other players in the off season didn't hide those workouts. Things that just make you go HUM!!!!

I read both articles and my perception is that they had 1 workout. Kinda goes against what you said about working out the entire offseason together and playbooks being passed out.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I read both articles and my perception is that they had 1 workout. Kinda goes against what you said about working out the entire offseason together and playbooks being passed out.

Ok maybe but I take the words "working out" as more than one. Not a big deal but I believe that the play book was shared with KK before he was offically traded (or at least parts of it).

http://www.csnphilly.com/07/21/11/K...ding_eagleeye.html?blockID=542809&feedID=3041

 

[TJ]

Then more concussed you are the more concussed you are likely to be later.

Dr. Mulli

Not only a physician but a patient?

 

[Phrazbit]

Its not too early to call the trade a failure. The Cards made the trade in an effort to get a franchise QB that they would not have to develop, the entire reason they didnt draft a QB on their own was because they thought the team was a QB away from winning now.

With the goals that the trade was intended to live up to it was a complete failure. Nothing about Kolb says "franchise player", and he certainly did not allow them to "win now".

The Cards clearly are a QB away from being an excellent team, and sadly their QB search will likely continue for the next few seasons unless Skelton has another few gears in him, or at least far more consistent ones.

 

[Totally_Red]

Its not too early to call the trade a failure. The Cards made the trade in an effort to get a franchise QB that they would not have to develop, the entire reason they didnt draft a QB on their own was because they thought the team was a QB away from winning now.

With the goals that the trade was intended to live up to it was a complete failure. Nothing about Kolb says "franchise player", and he certainly did not allow them to "win now".

The Cards clearly are a QB away from being an excellent team, and sadly their QB search will likely continue for the next few seasons unless Skelton has another few gears in him, or at least far more consistent ones.

I think the final verdict is still out on Kevin Kolb, but the early returns are not encouraging.

You knew this was coming. I will preempt Kerouac and say I watched the Chiefs defeat the Packers Sunday, and a big reason why was Kyle Orton. Sure the Chiefs had a decent ground game, but Orton was spreading the ball around and playing error-free football and making accurate passes. He looked better than Kevin Kolb has at any time this season IMO. My hind-sight is 20-20, but wouldn't he have helped the Cardinals more in 2011 than Kevin Kolb has?

 

[Cardiac]

I think the final verdict is still out on Kevin Kolb, but the early returns are not encouraging.

You knew this was coming. I will preempt Kerouac and say I watched the Chiefs defeat the Packers Sunday, and a big reason why was Kyle Orton. Sure the Chiefs had a decent ground game, but Orton was spreading the ball around and playing error-free football and making accurate passes. He looked better than Kevin Kolb has at any time this season IMO. My hind-sight is 20-20, but wouldn't he have helped the Cardinals more in 2011 than Kevin Kolb has?

It could be that Orton was the difference or that getting rid of Haley was the reason.

 

[WisconsinCard]

It could also be that that Whiz figured that JS needed a couple more years to develop. That would explain the contract structure of KK deal. If KK turned out to be a FQB great, if not, he thought we could give the helm to JS.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't see a huge drop off in team performance when Skelton is in there and He has a pretty good record, Yes I see the Skelton rookie mistakes, 2 safeties in a row, and such.

Double Deuce!
:jumping_smilie:

 

[chickenhead]

Barnwell notes that the Kolb era might be over if Skelton wins a couple more games and the Cards decide to avoid Kolb's 7m roster bonus in March.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7368234/a-blueprint-take-mighty-packers

 

[Duckjake]

Barnwell notes that the Kolb era might be over if Skelton wins a couple more games and the Cards decide to avoid Kolb's 7m roster bonus in March.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7368234/a-blueprint-take-mighty-packers

Nobody loved big-armed, relatively inaccurate passers more than the 2010 Cardinals, and when they got sick of Derek Anderson and Max Hall, they gave Skelton four starts.

 

[az1965]

Looking at Kolb in this post game locker room video... he does not look too good. Maybe its just me but he looks like he is still in lala land or just woke up from a deep sleep.

http://www.azcardinals.com/photos-v...s-Leader/f6c61446-ec05-4f65-b408-c16f22252647


Whiz mentioned that he is still bothered by lights and sound... not good. He doesn't look like he is ready for Cincy this coming week.

 

[kerouac9]

Barnwell notes that the Kolb era might be over if Skelton wins a couple more games and the Cards decide to avoid Kolb's 7m roster bonus in March.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7368234/a-blueprint-take-mighty-packers

To be fair, it's not like Barnwell is that in love with Skelton, either:

The reality is that Skelton's a flash in the pan, winning close games while really not making much of a contribution to the victories. There are guys who come out of nowhere to win a few games while putting up middling or unlikely numbers pretty much every season; players like Craig Krenzel in 2004 and Danny Kanell in 1997 are similar examples to the work that Skelton's been doing. Unless Skelton dramatically arrests his interception rate and improves his accuracy, he'll join them in the list of early-career wonders who quickly fell off and failed to launch serious NFL careers.

I think that Barnwell doesn't believe in this staff's ability to develop QBs, and that colors his response.

The reason why the Kolb trade was a failure is that the reason that we paid so much for Kolb was because we felt he was prepared to succeed from jump street. As we've seen from 8 weeks of evidence and from those who were watching more than Eagles highlights last year, Kolb doesn't bring any unique physical or mental capacities to the table. The only reason to pay that much for a low-level starting quarterback was because you felt like you were a quarterback away from being immediately competitive.

Turns out we were a quarterback away; it just turns out that that quarterback wasn't Kevin Kolb.

 

[kerouac9]

Looking at Kolb in this post game locker room video... he does not look too good. Maybe its just me but he looks like he is still in lala land or just woke up from a deep sleep.

http://www.azcardinals.com/photos-v...s-Leader/f6c61446-ec05-4f65-b408-c16f22252647


Whiz mentioned that he is still bothered by lights and sound... not good. He doesn't look like he is ready for Cincy this coming week.

Kolb was wearing earplugs on the sideline yesterday. Didn't even wear the radio to hear the playcalls coming in. Unconscionable that we gave up so much for a guy who'd already had two serious concussions in his history.

 

[PACardsFan]

Kolb was wearing earplugs on the sideline yesterday. Didn't even wear the radio to hear the playcalls coming in. Unconscionable that we gave up so much for a guy who'd already had two serious concussions in his history.

I'm not sure unconscionable is accurate. I think the Cardinals felt compelled & even desperate to make that trade. There's no way we would have been able to sign Fitz otherwise. Arguably, he was the best alternative available. We can only hope that Kolb or Skelton are the answer. Having a great QB is such a luxury in the NFL!!