Skinner Establishing Himself As The 8th Man

[azirish]

Tonight's game against the Knicks was probably Brian Skinner's best game as a Sun. In 18 minutes he had 7 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocked shots, and hit both his free throws (he came to the Suns with a horrible rep as free throw shooter). He was active on defense and showed a good, scrappy attitude.

In his role, his rebounds per minute played is important. In games where he's played more than 10 minutes (he had some limited time due to a brused leg):

@Lakers 8 rebounds and 5 blocks in 21 minutes (0.381 rebounds per minutes)

@Cavs 4 rebounds in 13 minutes (.307 rpm)

@Magic 5 rebounds in 11 minutes (0.45 rpm)

@Knicks 7 rebounds in 18 minutes (0.389 rpm)

Against the Heat he played on 6 minutes, but grabbed 3 rebounds for (0.5 rpm).

On a team that has been outrebounded by over 9 boards per game in the first 7 games, it seems clear the Suns need what Skinner offers.

 

[dodie53]

DA should sometimes play amare and skinner together.
especially againsts teams with a huge frontcourt

 

[azirish]

DA should sometimes play amare and skinner together.
especially againsts teams with a huge frontcourt

I suppose, but right now Marion is doing a decent job rebounding himself with 12.9 rpg in the first seven games (0.34 rpm).

 

[Cheesebeef]

(he came to the Suns with a horrible rep as free throw shooter)

George - he's shooting 50% for the season. That's not a rep - it's reality.

 

[Sunsman44]

Tonight's game against the Knicks was probably Brian Skinner's best game as a Sun. In 18 minutes he had 7 rebounds, 3 steals, 2 blocked shots, and hit both his free throws (he came to the Suns with a horrible rep as free throw shooter). He was active on defense and showed a good, scrappy attitude.

In his role, his rebounds per minute played is important. In games where he's played more than 10 minutes (he had some limited time due to a brused leg):

@Lakers 8 rebounds and 5 blocks in 21 minutes (0.381 rebounds per minutes)

@Cavs 4 rebounds in 13 minutes (.307 rpm)

@Magic 5 rebounds in 11 minutes (0.45 rpm)

@Knicks 7 rebounds in 18 minutes (0.389 rpm)

Against the Heat he played on 6 minutes, but grabbed 3 rebounds for (0.5 rpm).

On a team that has been outrebounded by over 9 boards per game in the first 7 games, it seems clear the Suns need what Skinner offers.

Hey, I've been screaming Skinner's name long before the Suns even signed him. Just check back on the posts and see.

And when they did get him, I've been screaming more playing time.

The man is better than Kurt Thomas - that's for sure. He is quicker. Stronger. More athletic. Runs the floor. Blocks better shots.

Ideally, you'd like to have him start alongside Amare and Marion while having Grant Hill and Sean Marks come off the bench.

Then you'd go out and get another insurance big such as Mbdega (spell?) or Fortson or Potopenko as the 13th guy wearing a suit.

Skinner is awsome. Keep in mind he was a full-time starter for the Bucks at power forward.

 

[dodie53]

did skinner play for the hawks?
or was the lorenzen wright?

i think skinner came from the bucks.

 

[jbeecham]

I've been impressed with what Skinner has shown out there, but he is no where near KT defensively or offensively. He might be able to block shots better or jump to rebound better, but he makes a lot of mistakes still by being out of position or not blocking out or leaving his man wide open under the basket to double team someone else. Sometimes he just loses track of his man because he's watching the ball handler and his guy gets an alley-oop dunk. The same things can be said about Amare too.

Offensively, Skinner is a big liability. It's like playing 4-on-5 when he's out there and none of the other Suns have any confidence in him to even let him touch the ball. He's basically there to crash the offensive glass and get tip-ins.

For the price he's a great addition, but I wouldn't go as far to say he should start alongside Amare. He did a solid job guarding Curry tonight and seemed to frustrate him into making stupid fouls. I'm more concerned about how he'll do against Duncan though.

 

[dodie53]

duncan >>>>>>> curry

 

[Stargazer]

I can't see the point in playing Skinner with Amare and Marion. Defense might improve due to sheer size, but where's the offense? Skinner's man will be free to double Amare down low and clog the lane on any Nash or LB drives. Amare's game depends upon the ability of the other Suns players to pull their man out of the lane and toward the 3-point line, but you have to have a respectable shot -- like Diaw or Hill -- to do that.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I can't see the point in playing Skinner with Amare and Marion. Defense might improve due to sheer size, but where's the offense? Skinner's man will be free to double Amare down low and clog the lane on any Nash or LB drives. Amare's game depends upon the ability of the other Suns players to pull their man out of the lane and toward the 3-point line, but you have to have a respectable shot -- like Diaw or Hill -- to do that.

Do you really count on Diaw's offense if he was in there with Amare and Marion? I actually like someone who will crash the offensive boards. No one but Skinner will do that.

 

[azirish]

I expect Skinner's defense to improve as he gets used to the system, his teammates, etc. Physically, he's quicker than KT and a far better shot blocker. He's not as strong as KT, but he's very active and moves his feet. In the brief periods I've seen him play, it appears he may be better at dealing with guys attacking the basket than KT was since that was not KT's strength.

In terms of offense, I'm not sure the difference is going to be as big a deal as people make it out to be. KT has the reputation for being a great mid range shooter, but at 38% beyond the foul line he's only "fair". Last season KT made 59 shots right at the basket and 67 in short and mid range stuff. His high shooting percentage was due to being right at the basket since he shot 62.8% there.

Due to minor injuries in training camp, Skinner has not had much chance to learn to play with Nash on the pick and roll. I look at Skinner as having a similar skill set to Stephen Hunter who shot had zero range but still shot 130 of 196 in close.

 

[HooverDam]

The man is better than Kurt Thomas - that's for sure. He is quicker. Stronger. More athletic. Runs the floor. Blocks better shots.

Skinner is awsome. Keep in mind he was a full-time starter for the Bucks at power forward.

Ahhhg!!!!

No, no he is not better than Kurt Thomas. Anyone who knows anything about the NBA will tell you he's not. KT is a munch better defender than Skinner and its not even close. KT gets much better positioning and is more fundamentally sound. He's also a much better rebounder. It goes with out saying that KT is a better field goal shooter and free throw shooter than Skinner (but so am I). The only thing Skinner does better than KT is block shots and have a hilarious goatee.

Now, thats not saying that Im unhappy w/ Skinners contributions or anything like that, but to say he's better than KT? Thats silly.

And about him starting for the Bucks...who cares? The Bucks were terrible. There are lots of people starting around the NBA that aren't really starter quality, but their team just doesn't have anyone else.

 

[Bufalay]

Ahhhg!!!!

No, no he is not better than Kurt Thomas. Anyone who knows anything about the NBA will tell you he's not. KT is a munch better defender than Skinner and its not even close. KT gets much better positioning and is more fundamentally sound. He's also a much better rebounder. It goes with out saying that KT is a better field goal shooter and free throw shooter than Skinner (but so am I). The only thing Skinner does better than KT is block shots and have a hilarious goatee.

Now, thats not saying that Im unhappy w/ Skinners contributions or anything like that, but to say he's better than KT? Thats silly.

And about him starting for the Bucks...who cares? The Bucks were terrible. There are lots of people starting around the NBA that aren't really starter quality, but their team just doesn't have anyone else.

all NBA starters are MUCH better than all NBA bench players. that is a fact.

I dare you to come up with a counterexample. In fact I encourage you to do so.

 

[HooverDam]

all NBA starters are MUCH better than all NBA bench players. that is a fact.

I dare you to come up with a counterexample. In fact I encourage you to do so.

Are you a Sunsman44 parachute account?

I'll give you an example, Leandro Barbosa, not a starter, is better than quite a few NBA starting 2 guards. I don't feel the need to list them because its so apparent.

Your reasoning is insane, starting or coming off the bench is a value judgment made by coaches. Coaches are humans who make mistakes. Which means, some coaches are probably starting a lineup which may not be the best possible lineup, some of them even don't start their best players intentionally (i.e. Manu and Jason Terry) so that they can be spark plugs off the bench.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

all NBA starters are MUCH better than all NBA bench players. that is a fact.

I dare you to come up with a counterexample. In fact I encourage you to do so.

Do I really have to counter this?

How about for instance:

Rajon Rondo <<<< Jason Terry

Marko Jaric <<<<<< Manu Ginobili

Robert Swift <<<<<< David Lee

Tyrone Lue <<<<< Leo Barbosa

and on and on. Some teams have depth at one position where other teams have a no starter material talent. There are even situations where some guys come off the bench to provide instant offense even though they are better than the guy in front of them ON THEIR OWN TEAM.

I would think this is pretty elementary.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Sunsman, when you figure in salary. Brian Skinner > Kurt Thomas.

 

[carey]

I dare you to come up with a counterexample. In fact I encourage you to do so.

Barbosa, Ginobli, and Terry can start on a number of teams. And they are easily better than the players they are backing up on their own team.

 

[cly2tw]

Skinner is definitely better than advertised. KT's low post defense is among the best in the league. But Skinner is fundamentally sound himself. The best big man he defended in this short season was Howard and he did quite well there. Too bad we didn't see him defending another excellent big man in Randolph. And we still need to see him defend TD yet. But all in all, I don't expect too much dropoff from KT's for 20 min or so a game.

As to offense, his shooting mechanic is OK. He is far more athletic than KT. Once he got the principles of p&r with Nash and others on the team down, he'd be better suited to dunk on the pass than KT. He is not bad of a finisher, and not butterfingered like Kwame Brown. (I was LOL to see Skinner one time trying to set the pick for Nash but with the PG already mismatched on him, while a big man was on the perimeter on Nash.)

He is but definitely much better than Hunter regarding offensive fundamentals.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

The majority of dallas' bench would start on plenty of teams, and our 6/7/8 guys are guaranteed starters if they were to be traded.

Not sure why I took the bait on this one.

 

[Errntknght]

Over their careers KT has a small statistical edge in rebounding rate: .267 to .261 per minute. On raw numbers Kurt is way ahead because he's averaged 70% more minutes per game than Skinner.

IMO, Kurt is a bit stronger and a better low post defender with remarkable positioning ability and very good awareness of everything that goes on around him. Skinner doesn't seem to be that aware but he covers more ground and does block more shots. (Statistically 50% more per minute played over their careers.)

Skinner is looking a better than I expected - I have clear memories of him fouling everyone that came in the lane when he was with Portland but he was getting scant minutes then so maybe he tried to get his licks in when he could. On the Suns he seems to be trying to do everything he can to contribute, a 'dirt worker' as Al would say.

So far he looks better rolling to the basket off a P&R than Kurt ever did and his midrange jumper hasn't been the horror I expected, given his abysmal FT percentage. Of course, I hope to see him heading to the basket every time his man goes to help rather than 'spotting up'.

I watched his mechanics at the FT line in the Knicks game - not great but not bad. Earlier it seemed like he was distressed at having to shoot FTs - like Shaq and, at times, even Duncan.

 

[Mainstreet]

all NBA starters are MUCH better than all NBA bench players. that is a fact.

I dare you to come up with a counterexample. In fact I encourage you to do so.

John Havlicek.

 

[keric]

Lets stop the comparisons to Kurt Thomas(he is gone, we need to let it go already)

Rather, lets compare Skinner to anyone on the CURRENT Suns' roster. NO ONE IS A BETTER POST DEFENDER! (please do not say Amare)

Anyone who saw the Orlando or New York game should realize this.

Bottom Line= Skinner needs minutes (without him, I don't see the Suns winning the Western Conference)

 

[LV-Suns]

Do I really have to counter this?

How about for instance:

Rajon Rondo <<<< Jason Terry

Marko Jaric <<<<<< Manu Ginobili

Robert Swift <<<<<< David Lee

Tyrone Lue <<<<< Leo Barbosa

and on and on. Some teams have depth at one position where other teams have a no starter material talent. There are even situations where some guys come off the bench to provide instant offense even though they are better than the guy in front of them ON THEIR OWN TEAM.

I would think this is pretty elementary.

Tyrone Lue

 

[LV-Suns]

Lets stop the comparisons to Kurt Thomas(he is gone, we need to let it go already)

Rather, lets compare Skinner to anyone on the CURRENT Suns' roster. NO ONE IS A BETTER POST DEFENDER! (please do not say Amare)

Anyone who saw the Orlando or New York game should realize this.

Bottom Line= Skinner needs minutes (without him, I don't see the Suns winning the Western Conference)

Diaw is a good post defender.

 

[FArting]

did skinner play for the hawks?
or was the lorenzen wright?

i think skinner came from the bucks.

Lorenzen Wright played for the Hawks. Skinner came from the Bucks.