Skyfall (Bond 23)

[Covert Rain]

Interesting you say that because IMO Casino Royale had NONE of that. Sure it had Eva Green, and Venice and Morocco, but that was it. No gadgets, no thrilling car chases. Hell, he was pretty much just playing cards for a significant amount of time and was brutally tortured -- again, not something we've ever seen in a "traditional" Bond movie.

Skyfall, however, had the new Q, gadgets, a beautiful woman, the underground headquarters, the traditional M, and Moneypenney (who herself wasn't ugly). Plus, it went to many different locations. It also had an over-the-top villain. How does that NOT fit your definition of a traditional Bond film?

What made CR great was the style of the storytelling. CR felt like Bond in every sense of the word. The way he interacts with people to what was going on. The classic gambling etc. It's the story that set the tone for Bond and who he was. I never expected it to look like any of the films that took place 5 stories into the character.

The start of this film was boring. Skyfall" starts off with a boring chase that ends with Bond fighting one henchman on top of a slow moving freight train. Was this a Western or James Bond? The next hour is BORING. Do we need an hour of watching MI6 get hacked and blown up? Then we get to watch him get back in shape and go on a pointless side mission so that the audience knows Bond is back. Did we really need that?

The film did get back on track though when the villain is introduced with the elaborate escape attempt. That felt the most like Bond.

I kept getting the distinct feeling they had this story but wanted James Bond in it, so they kept force feeding elements. For example they introduce the old Austin Martin for old times sake to give fans that Bond nostalgia. If felt like even the film makers knew they needed that element to make it feel more Bond. It was so transparent. I find it telling that when I watched it on opening weekend the audience was silent until they revealed the Austin Martin.

At the end it turns into an episode of MacGyver. Although I thought some of that was really cool, I know others that felt the same way that this film simply didn't feel like Bond but a mix of several different movies calling itself James Bond.

Then there were the numerous pontification and staring for dramatic effect scenes. The pace of this film was anything but James Bond.

Again....it seems like I didn't like the film at all but that wasn't the case. I felt this was a very good spy movie but a slightly underwhelming James Bond movie. For a Bond film give me a balanced film with slightly more action than drama. Not a movie heavy on drama with action sprinkled in to to keep the pace from becoming unbearable.

 

[Chaplin]

What made CR great was the style of the storytelling. CR felt like Bond in every sense of the word. The way he interacts with people to what was going on. The classic gambling etc.

The start of the film was boring. Skyfall" starts off with a boring chase that ends with Bond fighting one henchman on top of a slow moving freight train. Was this a western or James Bond? The next hour is BORING. Do we need an hour of watching MI6 get hacked and blown up?

Then we get to watch him get back in shape and go on a pointless side mission so that the audience knows Bond is back. Did we really need that? The film did get back on track though when the villain is introduced with the elaborate escape attempt. That felt the most like Bond.

I kept getting the distinct feeling they had this story but wanted James Bond in it, so they kept force feeding elements. For example they introduce the old Austin Martin for old times sake to give fans that Bond nostalgia. If felt like even the film makers knew they needed that element to make it feel more Bond.

At the end it turns into an episode of MacGyver. I actually again, thought some of that was really cool but I know others that felt the same way that this film simply didn't feel like Bond.

Then there were the numerous pontification and starring for dramatic scenes. The pace of this film was anything but James Bond.

Again....it seems like I didn't like the film at all but that wasn't the case. I felt this was a very good spy movie but a slightly underwhelming James Bond movie.

Completely disagree, and you didn't really address the fact that I listed multiple traits of a Bond film that were in Skyfall and not Casino Royale.

I find it strange that we are of the exact opposite opinion here. I think CR was a great spy movie but not a good Bond movie, you think the same about Skyfall.

 

[Covert Rain]

Completely disagree, and you didn't really address the fact that I listed multiple traits of a Bond film that were in Skyfall and not Casino Royale.

I find it strange that we are of the exact opposite opinion here. I think CR was a great spy movie but not a good Bond movie, you think the same about Skyfall.

I revised my post. CR was the introduction of Bond and never expected it to be like any story 5 stories in. CR was a different type of film but felt more Bond than Skyfall just the same.

That is not to say CR wasn't without it's problems. I know they tried to ground it more and get away from an abundance of gadgets which I liked the idea. I would have liked to see a bit more but I get it and for that particular movie a ton of gadgets wouldn't have fit the narrative of the story that started it all. Also, I get the point on Money Penny and Q but again, this original story was supposed to be the introduction of Bond.

The Venice sequence in CR was all Bond. It felt like the character that I had grown up watching. Nothing boring about it. What about the foot chase scene? Gets away from the formulaic chase scenes, modernizes is a bit but was still awesome IMO.

In terms of the woman, as a guy sure I would like them to be uber hot but they are always a means to the end with the character. Nothing more. However, they always come off like cardboard characters. I thought Eva Green's character was anything but and the shower scene showed and again set the tone for future interactions with the women in Bond films. As a result, for the first time I cared what happened to one of them versus just being eye candy.

It's funny because the more times I watch CR the more I appreciate what they were trying to do. I thought they went a tad to far trying to ground Bond (which I used to have a bigger problem with) but I appreciate it much more now.

Again, Skyfall is a very good movie and still one of my favorites in the franchise but I would prefer less drama and more action. Not that I want a mindless Michael Bay type Bond. Just pick up the damn pace. That was actually my biggest issue with the film. Bond is an action film first. Always has been. Skyfall was a drama first. Not what I want to see.

 

[Stout]

CR and Skyfall were incredibly Bond, because, well, they nailed the original James Bond. Even though Skyfall wasn't one of the original stories, it got the character, grit and intensity just right. All the ungodly cheesiness really turns me off on the Bond movies any more. I mean, okay, it holds a certain nostalgia for me, but that's about it.