Snap Counts and Thoughts - @CHI

[Stout]

I'm comfortable with the team looking at Collins, thinking he is going to be great in the future, but knowing he will cost the team RIGHT NOW and playing veterans who won't make the mental mistakes.

This argument is hilarious. The team is 10-2 so I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt in their appraisal of the situation.

The darkside is always going to do this, always going to whine about any perceived issue.

I love how you whine about whining.

 

[PACardsFan]

I’d be interested to know the number of great off-ball linebackers in the modern era who were brought along as slowly as Collins is.

If we were 2-10, he'd be playing. If by next year we haven't seen real progress, then I'm sure many more, including myself, would share your concerns.

 

[SoonerLou]

I remember when he was first rumored to us people thought he'd be an edge rusher.

 

[Krangodnzr]

If we were 2-10, he'd be playing. If by next year we haven't seen real progress, then I'm sure many more, including myself, would share your concerns.

Yep. Is he going to supplant the reigning NFC Defensive Player of the Week? Not right now, no.

 

[ajcardfan]

I remember when he was first rumored to us people thought he'd be an edge rusher.

This was also the same situation with Reddick. A couple of years of trying to force him into a LB position. Then, finally playing more in the role of what he was best at in college. Then looked what happened for him.

I will say it again..... can't he get snaps in Gardeck's role instead of Hicks'?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm comfortable with the team looking at Collins, thinking he is going to be great in the future, but knowing he will cost the team RIGHT NOW and playing veterans who won't make the mental mistakes.

This argument is hilarious. The team is 10-2 so I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt in their appraisal of the situation.

The darkside is always going to do this, always going to whine about

This was also the same situation with Reddick. A couple of years of trying to force him into a LB position. Then, finally playing more in the role of what he was best at in college. Then looked what happened for him.

I will say it again..... can't he get snaps in Gardeck's role instead of Hicks'?

Gardeck has really been useless this season. the fact that Zaven can't get any PT over guys who are death warmed over (Gardeck) or guys we keep pulling off the street is a little concerning.

but I'm not going to really worry about it until next year. too much good to focus on this year.

 

[DVontel]

This was also the same situation with Reddick. A couple of years of trying to force him into a LB position. Then, finally playing more in the role of what he was best at in college. Then looked what happened for him.

I will say it again..... can't he get snaps in Gardeck's role instead of Hicks'?

Difference was that Reddick primarily played EDGE in college. Zaven didn’t.

 

[Chopper0080]

Difference was that Reddick primarily played EDGE in college. Zaven didn’t.

He played OLB in a 3-3. And I will agree with @ajcardfan in that it won't be shocking to see him playing EDGE in a couple years or under a new DC and watch him flourish. 6'5 260 that runs a 4.7. Long enough to set the edge, athletic enough to drop in coverage his comp in player profiler is DJ Wonnum who plays DE for the Vikings. Another reason to dream about Vance getting and HC job and us hiring Zimmer as DC.

 

[QuebecCard]

He played OLB in a 3-3. And I will agree with @ajcardfan in that it won't be shocking to see him playing EDGE in a couple years or under a new DC and watch him flourish. 6'5 260 that runs a 4.7. Long enough to set the edge, athletic enough to drop in coverage his comp in player profiler is DJ Wonnum who plays DE for the Vikings. Another reason to dream about Vance getting and HC job and us hiring Zimmer as DC.

 

[DVontel]

He played OLB in a 3-3. And I will agree with @ajcardfan in that it won't be shocking to see him playing EDGE in a couple years or under a new DC and watch him flourish. 6'5 260 that runs a 4.7. Long enough to set the edge, athletic enough to drop in coverage his comp in player profiler is DJ Wonnum who plays DE for the Vikings. Another reason to dream about Vance getting and HC job and us hiring Zimmer as DC.

A 3-3 OLB is not a EDGE. That’s still a LB that’s away from the trenches.

It’ll be very shocking because it’s a position he barely played in college. He’s like the inverse Haason Reddick.

 

[DVontel]

Funny enough, Zaven would be better suited playing where Isaiah is. Less thinking & more attacking.

 

[Russ Smith]

I do like the explanation from Davis on why they aren't playing him more. Basically he said we're too good and have too many expectations for THIS SEASON to risk letting him learn on the job. If he makes mistakes, it's going to result in guys on the team getting mad at him which is not fair to him since he's a rookie. I do like that, if we were a bad team absolutely let him learn, but we're not.

Where I'm still confused is late in games they seem to wait to get him in there.

As for the why not play him on the edge, I assume it's the same reason they want him to learn the job they drafted him to play they don't want to overwhelm him with a new job to learn.

 

[ajcardfan]

Difference was that Reddick primarily played EDGE in college. Zaven didn’t.

I understand that. But every draft profile you look up touts his skills off the edge. Again, why can't he be Gardeck?

 

[CardLogic]

More fuel for the fire. . .

After drama-filled offseason, Cardinals linebacker Jordan Hicks works with a smile while rookie Zaven Collins struggles

Excerpt:
Not only has Hicks played well, but Collins has not been able to keep up. Collins did deal with a recent injury, but was supplanted by veteran Tanner Vallejo nonetheless. Over the last four games, Collins has played a total of 32 defensive snaps, and 23 came in the blowout loss to the Panthers.
His work ethic is not in question, Joseph said. Anyone drawing a straight parallel to fellow linebacker Isaiah Simmons as a rookie and Collins is missing the difference in their inside linebacker roles.
"With all rookies that have to be the playcaller, that's tough," Joseph said. "That's a learned deal with time. Having Hicksy has been fine for him. It's a tough spot for a rookie.
"He's not discouraged by any means. We need him, he's a big part of our defense still."
Hicks called Collins "an amazing person" and said Collins will eventually become a "great player in this league."

That's two strikes. But, go on, keep telling us why we should be happy with how Collins is progressing, or, rather, why we shouldn't be unhappy with why he isn't progressing.

You assume that Collins is not progressing, but actual statements from team sources state otherwise!

And it’s not like Simmons was taking snaps from a scrub. He took over for established veteran Devondre Campbell who has been killing it for the Packers after leaving.

I’m not mad about Collins. I’m actually laughing about it. The fiasco is hilarious. I’m sure it won’t matter much in the long term because the difference between a C+ and A- off-ball linebacker isn’t much on an impact on a defense.

Which is why is so hilarious we drafted two of them high in consecutive years.

I have had a good deal of respect for your football acumen, kerouac9. But your take here indicates that perhaps I've been mistaken.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cardinals purposely avoiding 'sink or swim' philosophy with rookie LB Zaven Collins​

Cardinals purposely avoiding 'sink or swim' philosophy with rookie LB Zaven Collins

Linebackers coach Billy Davis believes letting Collins play through mistakes on this roster doesn’t benefit anyone on team, including Collins.

cardswire.usatoday.com

“Davis doesn’t view Collins’ demotion/Tanner Vallejo’s promotion as a setback. Mays wrote “Davis sees scaling back the work as a normal part of the development cycle rather than a setback in how Collins has progressed.”

Words and phrases commonly associated with positive progression and growth.

Sorry, that’s a lot of BS organizational PR.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Rookie LB Zaven Collins quietly has lost spot in defensive rotation

Even after Tanner Vallejo went on injured reserve, Collins did not return to the role he held earlier in the season.

finance.yahoo.com

Hmm that author is some “whiner” bc he just stated everything some of us have been stating in this thread.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Three phases to the game and he's playing on Special Team(s).

Lol. Okay

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm comfortable with the team looking at Collins, thinking he is going to be great in the future, but knowing he will cost the team RIGHT NOW and playing veterans who won't make the mental mistakes.

This argument is hilarious. The team is 10-2 so I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt in their appraisal of the situation.

The darkside is always going to do this, always going to whine about any perceived issue.

Lol. Krang you’re changing the argument. Literally NO ONE, much the darksiders, are saying they should play him. What some of us are saying is it’s disappointing and concerning that they feel they can’t play him because they view him as a liability on the field. So much so that he’s regressed in playing time and assignments so to be virtually useless on defense going into week 14. Big difference there buddy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm comfortable with the team looking at Collins, thinking he is going to be great in the future, but knowing he will cost the team RIGHT NOW and playing veterans who won't make the mental mistakes.

This argument is hilarious. The team is 10-2 so I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt in their appraisal of the situation.

The darkside is always going to do this, always going to whine about any perceived issue.

Btw, talking about a football issue isn’t whining. Know what is? Complaining about posters talking about football.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Man I am the ultimate lightsider but on some level it's concerning. Champagne problems.

At least he gets to see what Hicks is doing with far more limited atheltic gifts

Man if that’s the silver lining it’s a slim one. Yup

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep. Is he going to supplant the reigning NFC Defensive Player of the Week? Not right now, no.

Literally no one is calling for this. No one.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

More fuel for the fire. . .

After drama-filled offseason, Cardinals linebacker Jordan Hicks works with a smile while rookie Zaven Collins struggles

.


You assume that Collins is not progressing, but actual statements from team sources state otherwise!
.

Lol. Okay, let’s believe the PR coachspeak BS instead of their actions (no longer plays in the the three ILB alignment specifically designed to get hicks/Simmons/collins on field at same time, losing snaps, playing behind Vallejo). What’s the old adage? Actions speak louder than words?

 

[Krangodnzr]

More fuel for the fire. . .

After drama-filled offseason, Cardinals linebacker Jordan Hicks works with a smile while rookie Zaven Collins struggles

Excerpt:
Not only has Hicks played well, but Collins has not been able to keep up. Collins did deal with a recent injury, but was supplanted by veteran Tanner Vallejo nonetheless. Over the last four games, Collins has played a total of 32 defensive snaps, and 23 came in the blowout loss to the Panthers.
His work ethic is not in question, Joseph said. Anyone drawing a straight parallel to fellow linebacker Isaiah Simmons as a rookie and Collins is missing the difference in their inside linebacker roles.
"With all rookies that have to be the playcaller, that's tough," Joseph said. "That's a learned deal with time. Having Hicksy has been fine for him. It's a tough spot for a rookie.
"He's not discouraged by any means. We need him, he's a big part of our defense still."
Hicks called Collins "an amazing person" and said Collins will eventually become a "great player in this league."


You assume that Collins is not progressing, but actual statements from team sources state otherwise!

I have had a good deal of respect for your football acumen, kerouac9. But your take here indicates that perhaps I've been mistaken.

@kerouac9 once argued Ray Lewis wasn't worth taking in the 1st round. Thats his take on it for what its worth.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

In all fairness to the darksiders, and in agreement with @Chris_Sanders, it's annoying to see the #12 pick Micha Parsons balling out (or at least flashing) for the hated cowboys while the #16 pick is cooling his heels on our sideline.

But again, lots and lots of variables at work here, and I still have plenty of hope for Zach Collins, even confidence that VJ will eventually turn him into our starter at MLB (but I also hope it doesn't take VJ as long to develop Collins as it did for him to develop Hassan Reddick).

Still, even though it's not the end of the world, and not hurting us in the win-loss column, Collin's very brief NFL career has been fairly disappointing. Long, long ways to go though gentlemen.

 

[Shane]

In all fairness to the darksiders, and in agreement with @Chris_Sanders, it's annoying to see the #12 pick Micha Parsons balling out (or at least flashing) for the hated cowboys while the #16 pick is cooling his heels on our sideline.

But again, lots and lots of variables at work here, and I still have plenty of hope for Zach Collins, even confidence that VJ will eventually turn him into our starter at MLB (but I also hope it doesn't take VJ as long as it did to develop Hassan Reddick).

Still, even though it's not the end of the world, and not hurting us in the win-loss column, Collin's very brief NFL career has been fairly disappointing. Long, long ways to go though gentlemen.

Vance Joseph had Reddick turned around in one season?