So how bad are we honestly?

[Superfuzz]

Remember, we are so bad that we beat the Patriots in Foxboro and then would have beat the Falcons in Atlanta if we only would have had a decent QB. We need a QB. The problem as mentioned is not whether or not we are bad, we have the Niners who are now elite and the Seahawks who are chumpin' at their heels

And the Cards beat both those teams within the last 13 months. So they aren't so tough we can't beat them again. The Cards were 10-2 in the division 2008-2009 then were 1-5 in 2010. Things change fast in the NFL.

+1

We probably won't be a Super Bowl contender next year, but the margins between "bad", "OK" and "good" are razor thin in the NFL.

 

[Bodha]

Defense - Very good. Top 5 talent at every level. (well besides rush LB)

PP top 5 DB
KR (imo) top 5 FS
AW top 10 SS
DW #1 LB
DD top 5 DT
CC #2 3-4 DE



Offense....

Well theres Larry.

 

[WarnerHOF]

We are a mess IMO.

On defense we have holes at ILB, SS and depth issues at NT and OLB.

On offense we are much worse. We currently major issues with starters at QB, RB and all along the OL.

To top it off we are no longer playing in the NFC Worst. SF and Seattle are playoff caliber teams and the Rams are making good moves as well.

Arians and Co. are facing an uphill battle next year.

Let's be real. The depth at NT is fine. Eason is a capable backup who has a lot of starting experience.

The starting OLBs are probably the worst group in the NFL. Acho, OBS and Groves rarely get pressure and don't set the edge very well.

With Wilson and Kaepernick in the division, the defense could really use a disciplined speed freak liek Barkevious Mingo who would be impossible to run the zone read against.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Defense - Very good. Top 5 talent at every level. (well besides rush LB)

PP top 5 DB
KR (imo) top 5 FS
AW top 10 SS
DW #1 LB
DD top 5 DT
CC #2 3-4 DE



Offense....

Well theres Larry.

Boda, sorry dude but you cannot have top ten talent at every positon. I would throw Floyd as solid to the potential as being very good and Roberts as solid at the least. I would say Housler is better than the days of a Leonard Pope. I would say that Potter looked solid and so did Massie as rookies considering our guards are below average. I would say that LSH is a very good change of pace back who was even able to a garner 100 yards in a game even out of position as the primary back and with our weak play at the guards.

QB is the glaring need. We need at least one guard added this year. Kelemete actually looked good when the stubborn coaching staff finally let him in, and the fact that RB may be lacking does not bring me down in the least, because it is one of the easiest positions to fill in the draft.

and while we are at, one of the most difficult things for a halfback to adjust to is blocking on passing downs, so Powell had his issues but the kid still showed very good signs of being able to run the rock but again our coaching staff did not let him have enough time in my opinion. I know it can look daunting with the way this offense performed but poor guard play and erratic QB play will sink any offense to the depths of craptastic, regardless of the talent at the other positions. Heck, even Fitz did not have a chance to be Fitz

 

[TruCard]

Right now we are 0-0.

We just added two of the best offensive-minded coaches in the NFL. There is no way that this offense doesn't get better even with the same players next season. Michael Floyd is a key to our success next season. He must break out. He came on a little bit at the end of the year. If we can add a few needed pieces in this upcoming draft, we will compete for a playoff spot next season.

 

[Bodha]

Boda, sorry dude but you cannot have top ten talent at every positon.

What are you talking about? I said on defense, and I listed where I thought those guys were.

So you disagree PP is top 5 cb? Hes in the pro bowl. CC is widely considered the best 3-4 DE behind Justin Smith. Daryl is easily one of the top LBs in the NFL. As far as pure SS's go, Adrian is still up there. Kerry Rhodes is a top FS IMO. DD is a top DT still and will be in the new system again.


We can and we do because of those guys.


I wasnt talking about offense. We are abysmal there.

 

[Jetstream Green]

What are you talking about? I said on defense, and I listed where I thought those guys were.

So you disagree PP is top 5 cb? Hes in the pro bowl. CC is widely considered the best 3-4 DE behind Justin Smith. Daryl is easily one of the top LBs in the NFL. As far as pure SS's go, Adrian is still up there. Kerry Rhodes is a top FS IMO. DD is a top DT still and will be in the new system again.


We can and we do because of those guys.


I wasnt talking about offense. We are abysmal there.

I WAS REFERRING TO THE OFFENSE as not having top ten talent at every position but still was solid in certain areas as compared to the defense which is loaded with better talent as you stated and then I went to the positions on offense to clarify my response because you said we only had Fitzgerald. Why else would I explain in depth my views on offense after that statement? Where did I say you where wrong on defense? The players on offense have positions too. It's like you only read the first line and have ignored why I stated the rest. Your statement implied that the offense had to be top ten too, and I argue it does not have to be and we are solid in areas past Fitzgerald. If one does not specify defense or offense in my opening statement of positions, I must be involving another part of the team and then my following words explained what part I was referring to

 

[kerouac9]

What are you talking about? I said on defense, and I listed where I thought those guys were.

So you disagree PP is top 5 cb? Hes in the pro bowl. CC is widely considered the best 3-4 DE behind Justin Smith. Daryl is easily one of the top LBs in the NFL. As far as pure SS's go, Adrian is still up there. Kerry Rhodes is a top FS IMO. DD is a top DT still and will be in the new system again.


We can and we do because of those guys.


I wasnt talking about offense. We are abysmal there.

Forgot about J.J. Watt, huh? Good work there, buddy.

 

[denverbirdfan]

the Cards have a long history of playoff-free streaks. think 1975-1982, 1982-1998, 1998-2008/2009. we could simply be on the upswing of one of these 10+ year losing streaks.

in other words, our next playoff game could (realistically) be in 2021.

 

[TJ]

We are in better shape than the Suns.

Ah. That makes me feel sooooo much better


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Dr. Jones]

Right now we are 0-0.

We just added two of the best offensive-minded coaches in the NFL. There is no way that this offense doesn't get better even with the same players next season. Michael Floyd is a key to our success next season. He must break out. He came on a little bit at the end of the year. If we can add a few needed pieces in this upcoming draft, we will compete for a playoff spot next season.

I have trouble pinning my hopes on Micheal Floyd being the key to our success. He only breaks out if we can keep our QB upright and healthy long enough to give him the ball.

 

[DoTheDew]

We're a few years and good drafts away from contending. We've got lots of good pieces on defense locked up long term and two solid young OTs to work with. We have some talent in the receiving core, including Housler who IMO is the most underrated player on this team right now.

We are horrible at RB, interior OL, and QB. We have to find yougn talent at both safety positions soon. We need an ILB. We need to find Dockett's replacement. We need our new coach to be good and our new GM to be great.

 

[Duckjake]

We're a few years and good drafts away from contending. We've got lots of good pieces on defense locked up long term and two solid young OTs to work with. We have some talent in the receiving core, including Housler who IMO is the most underrated player on this team right now.

We are horrible at RB, interior OL, and QB. We have to find young talent at both safety positions soon. We need an ILB. We need to find Dockett's replacement. We need our new coach to be good and our new GM to be great.

I sure hope you are wrong but then history is on the Darkside. It took 5 years for the Cards to rebuild from the disaster they created with McGinnis & Co.

However, Green didn't have the luxury of having several pro bowl caliber or just solid players on Defense. Instead of Calais Campbell and Daryl Washington Green got Dennis Johnson and Levar Fisher.

 

[Chopper0080]

That's ridiculous. Only Lyle Sendlein was playing the same position on the offensive line the last 2 seasons. Warner was the only Cardinal QB to play with the same 5 guys on the oline for two years in a row since the 1970's. He is a terrible example.

Gandy was gone, Brown moved to LT, Lutui was run off, Wells was run off. Faneca played a year and retired.

Try again.

Are you seriously trying to convince me that Mike Gandy, Reggie Wells, Lyle Sendlein, Duece Lutui and Levi Brown are so much better than Levi Brown, Daryn Colledge, Lyle Sendlein, Adam Snyder and Bobby Massie? Colledge and Snyder are getting paid 6 mil and 3 mil per year respectively, and Wells and Lutui are street free agent pickups by teams with terrible OGs. I'm not going to say that the 2008 and 2009 offensive lines weren't better, but they weren't the difference between un making the playoffs and us pick in the top 15 for 3 years even if you add Alan Faneca.

The difference between our team now and our playoff teams is we no longer have Kurt Warner or Anquan Boldin, and now we have a top 15 defense. I don't see how anyone could argue that QB doesn't matter the most when it comes down to making the pass blocking and wide receivers better.

 

[Duckjake]

Are you seriously trying to convince me that Mike Gandy, Reggie Wells, Lyle Sendlein, Duece Lutui and Levi Brown are so much better than Levi Brown, Daryn Colledge, Lyle Sendlein, Adam Snyder and Bobby Massie? Colledge and Snyder are getting paid 6 mil and 3 mil per year respectively, and Wells and Lutui are street free agent pickups by teams with terrible OGs. I'm not going to say that the 2008 and 2009 offensive lines weren't better, but they weren't the difference between un making the playoffs and us pick in the top 15 for 3 years even if you add Alan Faneca.

The difference between our team now and our playoff teams is we no longer have Kurt Warner or Anquan Boldin, and now we have a top 15 defense. I don't see how anyone could argue that QB doesn't matter the most when it comes down to making the pass blocking and wide receivers better.

Yes I am because I believe that continuity trumps talent when you are replacing mediocre talent with worse talent. I'd take the 2007-2009 offensive line kept together over the makeshift bunch the Cardinals have been trotting out for the last 2 seasons any day.

Snyder and Colledge making that much money just causes hilarious laughter in San Francisco and Green Bay.

 

[john h]

Post season thoughts, well not surprised by much of what has happened and no plans to rehash the whole Wis/Warner who cares about the superbowl 5 years ago anyhow. But in fairness when will we be relevant again?

I haven't felt this bad about the Cardinals in years and really there is no light at the end of the tunnel. We are in a division with two young power house teams, and one up and comer. Two very, very good head coaches, and despite Carrol being a jerk he ain't too shabby. When I saw what jobs were availible for coaches I honestly thought about where would I coach based on talent and division. I will not rank them, but the Cardinals were the bottom of the list. Offensively we have Larry, and don't kidd yourself about the rest. Defensively we have tallent, but a DC can destroy that in a heartbeat(enter Todd Bowles). I expect us to be drafting in the top 10 for the next 4 years, our recently fired regime of clowns have ensured we are in trouble for years.

If you have a good QB you always have hope. Without one you are hopeless. Has Kolb just had 5-6 years of bad luck or is he just a bad QB? How many QBs with his time in the league have made it big 6 or more years later?

 

[Chopper0080]

Yes I am because I believe that continuity trumps talent when you are replacing mediocre talent with worse talent. I'd take the 2007-2009 offensive line kept together over the makeshift bunch the Cardinals have been trotting out for the last 2 seasons any day.

Snyder and Colledge making that much money just causes hilarious laughter in San Francisco and Green Bay.

And I agree that the 2007-2009 line was better, but my point is that Warner had more to do with significant difference in wins and losses between then and now. A top QB can make a below average offensive line, we had then, better than it really is more than a top OL can make a QB better than he really is.

 

[Duckjake]

And I agree that the 2007-2009 line was better, but my point is that Warner had more to do with significant difference in wins and losses between then and now. A top QB can make a below average offensive line, we had then, better than it really is more than a top OL can make a QB better than he really is.

We'll just have to disagree. A good offensive line enables a team to run the ball which gets defenders out of coverage and sets up play action and gives the QB time to go through progressions.

No matter how good a QB is if he has defenders in his face before he can even set up he's not going to be effective. Especially if he is on a team where the WRs take half an hour to get downfield like the Cardinals.

 

[Chopper0080]

We'll just have to disagree. A good offensive line enables a team to run the ball which gets defenders out of coverage and sets up play action and gives the QB time to go through progressions.

No matter how good a QB is if he has defenders in his face before he can even set up he's not going to be effective. Especially if he is on a team where the WRs take half an hour to get downfield like the Cardinals.

and I am totally ok with that. I like hearing your input, especially when it goes against mine, because it is generally well thought out. You make good points even if I don't agree with them.

 

[D-Dogg]

We'll just have to disagree. A good offensive line enables a team to run the ball which gets defenders out of coverage and sets up play action and gives the QB time to go through progressions.

No matter how good a QB is if he has defenders in his face before he can even set up he's not going to be effective. Especially if he is on a team where the WRs take half an hour to get downfield like the Cardinals.

I'm with you on this.

Chop and I went around the block on this same type of issue a few days ago, but I'm a huge proponent of building your trench before putting valuable soldiers in battle.

 

[DoTheDew]

I sure hope you are wrong but then history is on the Darkside. It took 5 years for the Cards to rebuild from the disaster they created with McGinnis & Co.

If recent history has proven anything, it's that finding an elite young QB can turn you around instantly. Look at the progress Washington, Indy, and Seattle made over last year with their rookie QBs. If we happened to stumble upon a guy like that in this years draft, we'll be right back on track. I just don't believe there's anyone like that this year who's going to come in right away without a steep learning curve.

Next year and beyond, who knows? That's why I'm fine with us not drafting a QB out of need in the 1st or even 2nd round this year. Fix all the other positions this year and next year do whatever you have to to get that guy, even if it means trading the farm for a top 2 pick like Washington did.