So, I was Right About Gortat, Wasn't I?

JCSunsfan

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Just because he has had a rough stretch would be a foolish reason to trade him. It s the same reason everyone wanted to trade Goran last year. Dragic was playing much worse that Gortat is.

That one turned out really great, didn't it?
 

redheat

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You cant take the Euro softness out of Gorswat. If we aren't going to have Nash and on top of that put him next to another soft PF in Fry then it's just not ever going to work.
 

AzStevenCal

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You cant take the Euro softness out of Gorswat. If we aren't going to have Nash and on top of that put him next to another soft PF in Fry then it's just not ever going to work.

He wasn't all that soft in January, February and March when he and Nash were carrying this team. He's not the most physical player but the only real softness he typically displayed had to do with the way he took the ball to the basket. Once or twice per contest he'd elect to put it up like a ballerina instead of a bull and most of us would scream at our TVs when he did that but it hardly sums up his game. He played fairly strong and physical on defense until the past couple of weeks.

Steve
 

Folster

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Just because he has had a rough stretch would be a foolish reason to trade him. It s the same reason everyone wanted to trade Goran last year. Dragic was playing much worse that Gortat is.

That one turned out really great, didn't it?

Great point.
 

Covert Rain

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Just because he has had a rough stretch would be a foolish reason to trade him. It s the same reason everyone wanted to trade Goran last year. Dragic was playing much worse that Gortat is.

That one turned out really great, didn't it?

+1. Look at a Players overall body of work. Every player in the NBA goes through bad stretches. What he has done for the Suns at Center cannot be debated.
 

Cheesebeef

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+1. Look at a Players overall body of work. Every player in the NBA goes through bad stretches. What he has done for the Suns at Center cannot be debated.

I don't think most people are debating what he's done. He's been a very solid C. But he's a solid non-impact making C on a team going nowhere for probably a good 4 years who's about to enter his prime and could help rebuilding this team which needs to basically start from scratch.
 

Covert Rain

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I don't think most people are debating what he's done. He's been a very solid C. But he's a solid non-impact making C on a team going nowhere for probably a good 4 years who's about to enter his prime and could help rebuilding this team which needs to basically start from scratch.

I don't disagree with any of that. I have always said that if we can get a young legit big man in return or a high draft pick to draft said player I am OK with trading him. However, you don't trade Gortat for a PG/SG/SF role player or some position that puts your franchise in a position to look for a legit big man for the next 10 years. If they do that then in 4 years we are looking at small ball all over again and then wasted the talent we have accumulated in that time.

Having said that he is 28 years old and will only be 32 in 4 years. So, I would buy the argument to keep Gortat if you think this team can do anything in 4 years time. He will probably still be serviceable in his mid 30's.

If you believe this team is 8 to 10 years away from being any good then it definitely makes sense to get a younger big man now.
 
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sunsfan88

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You've got to be kidding??? We said he was playing at a reduced level because he was exhausted. Do you really think that playing more games in a short period of time would resolve this problem. Watch a game from January and compare it to now. He's much slower, get's less lift, and he's no longer capable of holding his own position. This won't change until he's had some real time off.

Steve
Every player in the NBA seems to be dealing with it yet they seem fine. Utah has had a MUCH rougher schedule than Phoenix for the last 2 months yet they seemed fine yesterday. If Gortat's the kind of player who will get tired mid season and then from then on, then we have to move on from him immediately and get a player who can play a full season hard.
I'll admit, it's hard for me to make a strong case for the guy but I don't think there's any denying that he looks slower and weaker out there than he did in January.

Steve
You keep saying January but you do realize that the season started in January right? Or well late December but you can assume January.

So basically what your saying is he hasn't looked good since the start of the season.

And people said the same thing about Lopez after his sophmore season where he showed great potential. Then the next season he looked "slower and weaker" just like you said. We ended up thinking he'll get over it, no need to trade him just like you think about Gortat.

Then Lopez continued his garbage play and now the guy has no trade value at all.

Same can happen with Gortat. Actually considering that Gortat is a lot older, I would say same is most likely to happen with Gortat.
 

BC867

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So basically what your saying is he hasn't looked good since the start of the season.
While playing with a splint on his finger.

Gortat's problem is greater than he himself. It is the Suns' obsession of not having two strong/skilled players at the "5" an "4" together. Our one vs. their two. It wears our big man down. It has been our style for decades.
 

redheat

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I just dont think Gorswat has it in him to be a big man and play playoff basketball... But since we wont be making the playoffs for the next 3 years might as well keep him unless we get a good trade.

I was so pleased he was benched in the 4th for Lopez!
 

jagu

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So much trash on a guy who was tied for 7th in the NBA in double doubles (31). You guys don't deserve any good player who works hard.
 

desertdawg

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So much trash on a guy who was tied for 7th in the NBA in double doubles (31). You guys don't deserve any good player who works hard.
dcr.gif
I made a sculpture of The Machine out of macaroni...and it was hard to find Polish macaroni!!!! Gortat rocks.
 

Covert Rain

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I just dont think Gorswat has it in him to be a big man and play playoff basketball... But since we wont be making the playoffs for the next 3 years might as well keep him unless we get a good trade.

I was so pleased he was benched in the 4th for Lopez!

Complete garbage. Compare his stats to all the other big men in the NBA and he does just fine. He is putting up good numbers AGAINST all the other big men in the NBA. He has single handedly made the Suns relevant at a position where we ranked dead last or close to it with Lopez as our starting Center.

If he ever gets to the the playoffs, I bet he gets his average in points and rebounds. There is not a team in the NBA that wouldn't take that in the playoffs from their center position.
 
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JCSunsfan

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Complete garbage. Compare his stats to all the other big men in the NBA and he does just fine. He is putting up good numbers AGAINST all the other big men in the NBA. He has single handedly made the Suns relevant at a position where we ranked dead last or close to it with Lopez as our starting Center.

If he ever gets to the the playoffs, I bet he gets his average in points and rebounds. There is not a team in the NBA that wouldn't take that in the playoffs from their center position.

Criticism gets hysterical at times. Gortat is the LEAST of the Suns problems. Gortat was one of our most consistent performers this year. Dudley and Frye put up much more lumpy efforts.
 

jagu

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dcr.gif
I made a sculpture of The Machine out of macaroni...and it was hard to find Polish macaroni!!!! Gortat rocks.

At least you're a sensible man. People blame Gortat because somehow he is supposed to be the next Tim Duncan. He is a damn good center who rode the bench for a lot of his career and made himself a productive center in just his first year as a starter. He wore down as the season went along, probably because he wasn't used to all the things he needed to do which is rebound, play D, and actually be an important scorer on the team. Put Gortat next to a beast PF and you're going to get a lot of wins. Meanwhile, some on the boards are ready to give Jeremy Lin the MVP for a good week of basketball. Suns fans piss me off sometimes.
 

95pro

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thats what i've been saying, we were a superstar of a PF away from being a good team.
 

desertdawg

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At least you're a sensible man. People blame Gortat because somehow he is supposed to be the next Tim Duncan. He is a damn good center who rode the bench for a lot of his career and made himself a productive center in just his first year as a starter. He wore down as the season went along, probably because he wasn't used to all the things he needed to do which is rebound, play D, and actually be an important scorer on the team. Put Gortat next to a beast PF and you're going to get a lot of wins. Meanwhile, some on the boards are ready to give Jeremy Lin the MVP for a good week of basketball. Suns fans piss me off sometimes.
Yamon, you aint gotta tell me. I almost got a deal with Reebock for my sculpture, but they saw the authentic Nike Jordan tatoo on his sculptured leg and they told me to kick noodles. All seroiusness, bouncing Gortat is dumb. I doubt anybody would give us a trade that would make it worthy but we have 18 million GMs in here that post differently. Love life and let the funny stuff stay funny, otherwise you end up posting like...me. :p
 

PhxGametime

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I really like Gortat's game!! but I think I'm at the rebuild stage. There's not a lot of great PF's available. Harden would be nice addition but they'll probably want the moon...


The most exciting year for me was during 2004: it wasn't total rebuild but they had Marion, JJ, and Stoudemire and capspace... they signed Nash/Richardson and were YOUNGEST Team in League and had the most wins, in 2004-05. but the year before was where it started and was just as exciting knowing we had young studs and capspace/high Draft Pick...


I think I'd prefer to see Goran Dragic, Jerryd Bayless, George Hill, Ramon Sessions, etc. running the Team and getting 1st Rounders via Trade; taking bad contracts for 1st Rounders; purchasing 1st Rounders; etc. - sucking for a couple years to get High 1st Rounders!!


I just don't see the Suns getting Horford, Aldridge, Ibaka, etc. in a Trade and I really doubt the SG's available would make much difference: Gordon, Mayo, N Young, C Lee, etc.
 

Superbone

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Go watch Gortat's exit interview on Suns.com. He says all the right things. He wants to get stronger and wants to work on finishing stronger at the rim.
 

jagu

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Go watch Gortat's exit interview on Suns.com. He says all the right things. He wants to get stronger and wants to work on finishing stronger at the rim.

No but he had a few bad games!!! He sucks!! WAAAAAAAAAA!!!
 
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Budden

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Here is my argument for KEEPING Gortat. I realize I am biased toward disliking Gortat, so I'm going to take the opposite side of the argument. Please let me know your thoughts.

I'll admit, I pegged Marcin Gortat as a Mickey Mouse Bar short of a Mr. Softee Ice Cream Truck within seconds of the first time I watched him play for the Phoenix Suns (which was the first time I remember noticing him play - I didn't watch a lot of Orlando Magic games, because I don't watch unimpressive teams play unless it's the Suns, and at their best the Magic were a Fulton Street knock-off of the mid-90's Orlando Magic that would've wiped the floor with the late mid-to-late 2000's Magic team, so I never paid attention enough attention to them to notice the guy who came in when the Magic were short-handed at center). Point is, my opinion of Gortat has always been biased by that first impression, and as a result, I am much more attentive to any play he's made that reinforces my impression of him as a WNBA role player in training, as opposed to the good plays he's made, which I have been able to dismiss as expected anomalies.

That said, for all intents and purposes, the Phoenix Suns' playoff hopes took a tremendous blow when Grant Hill had his second knee surgery, and we were all able to push that idea our of our minds because Shannon Brown stepped up. But even with a Shannon Brown playing at a level close to that of Grant Hill's (albeit with different strengths), the Suns lost a starter who contributed immensely to this team's collective IQ and, considering how marginal this team was to begin with, without Grant Hill we were a key man down. Expecting the Suns to maintain their improved level of play, which began after the all-star break - and coincided almost perfectly with Grant Hill's best basketball of the season - was unfair and unrealistic. The fact that I personally allowed myself to be fooled into thinking the Suns still had a shot at the post-season was a mistake, and every mistake we made was thus amplified by the fact that my expectations for the team were too high.

I don't think anybody would argue that the most obvious scapegoat on which to pin our decreased level of play was Marcin Gortat. With every loss, the significance of every game was amplified, and that amplified the collapse of Gortat's play.

Where does that leave us? I firmly believe that any future Suns team will be unsuccessful if Gortat is called upon to be a consistent 16 & 10 guy. Whether you believe that Gortat's weak play was caused by his wearing down MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE or that the cause was that other players picked up their intensity and physicality, or most likely, a combination of the two, Gortat is a 28-year old, white European center. Judging by other guys his size, with his race, with his Eastern European genetics, and with his build, it is statistically unlikely that he is in his physical prime, and if he is, it's even less likely that it will last much longer. If you honestly believe this team needs to rebuild through the draft, Gortat WILL NOT be a part of the team that comes out the other end 4 years from now. He will be a guy in or past decline and, best case scenario, we'll have some up-and-coming young guys who have real potential.

With all this said, I think we should keep Gortat IF AND ONLY IF we are able to markedly increase this team's talent this offseason or, at the latest, by next season's trade deadline, and we should only keep him past this offseason if Steve Nash re-signs. With Steve Nash at point, there's no reason to believe that Gortat will not go the first half of next season averaging around 13-15 ppg and 8-10 boards. Gortat will be fresh, the opposition won't play with quite as much ferocity every night as they have over the last month, and we will have at least a couple of better players to take attention and pressure off the Nash-to-Gortat pick-and-roll.
 
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