So, if the Bidiwlls owned the only Starbucks in Scottsdale...

[NEZCardsfan]

Do you really feel that he was not "wanted" because he was the last to sign? Give me a freakin break. He was the last to sign because he was a top 3 talent that slipped to #10. He wanted to be compensated like he was a top 3 pick, the Cards wanted the #10 slotting. The compromise is what took so long. I thought this was more than obvious....

If the rumors of being offered Jay Cutler money are true....then yes, he probably felt unwanted. Or at the least that the Bidwills are cheap.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Starbucks would never let a franchise be run that way. Wouldn't get that far.

interesting and SO right. i wish the nfl cared as much as starbucks does . . .

 

[AZCB34]

You know what, I get kind of tired reading how the Bidwill's don't care and are never trying because both statements are false. Here is why:

Myth #1 - Bidwills don't care about winning.

This is patently false. They do care. They cared every single time they saw SDS with 21,000 people in it. I always read about how the Bidwills are businessmen and have no desire to win because they are making money. The problem is that statement which I have seen 1000 times on this board is completely ludicrous. If they are businessmen as people say, then they know that winning gets home playoff games which brings in even more money and maybe winning in the playoffs brings a Super Bowl which would bring them even more money even if it played in Florida due to merchandising which this town would eat up. Sorry folks, the Bidwills care about winning because winning always brings more money than losing...even if the NFL is structured to allow owners to operate at a profit without the winning.

Myth #2 - Bidwills don't try

This is false as well. They do try...hard. The biggest problem is, so many of the decisions they make are wrong...but not because they aren't trying. Hiring Buddy Ryan (and giving him all the power) was actually the right thing to do in a very pure, basic sense. The problem was their decision about who to hire and hand that power to was wrong.

The decision to heap scads of cash on Jake Plummer, in a pure sense, was the right decision but the reality was it was wrong because of the ramifications of said enrichening. They had the right idea but the wrong execution.

The decision to hire and give alot of power to Denny was, in a pure sense, the right move but the decision they made about who they gave that power to was dead wrong...sorry but it was wrong when it was made, not 3 years later with the benefit of hindsight.

They way they used to structure contracts was, in a old school pure sense, correct. The decision to do that though hurt the team (the irony is they views of contracts is really the view the entire NFL should take but it just doesn't work that way)

Again, they try very hard to achieve winning but they make so many horrible decisions that it makes winning nearly impossible.

As I see it, the mistake they constantly make is thinking they are somehow qualified to make football decisions...like hiring a coach and bringing in FA's. That has to be done by a football guy...and not a yes man football guy (sorry Rod) but an independent football guy who is given free reign on all football team decisions.

If the Cards had a real football guy in place and not a yes man all these years (sorry Rod and Bob) this team would be winning and making the playoffs.

The Bidwills try and they want to win but they cannot figure out how to do it...and after the Denny fiasco, look for more bad decisions to come.

 

[AZ Shocker]

Do you really feel that he was not "wanted" because he was the last to sign? Give me a freakin break. He was the last to sign because he was a top 3 talent that slipped to #10. He wanted to be compensated like he was a top 3 pick, the Cards wanted the #10 slotting. The compromise is what took so long. I thought this was more than obvious....

Still the Cards should of showed him the money early. Not drag it out as they usually do. Typical...
It's not like Matt is some Defensive End or Defensive Back we drafted. He's "the" friggin quarterback, and he's STARTING now. A qb you build your team around.

 

[Lloydian]

AZCB34: Now there's an answer! On the Denny front: I wanted him here a year before he got here, so what do I know?

For me, the bottom line is you make the best decision you can in a given situation. With the experience of the last three years, they should now be keenly aware that they need a GM to take things over in operations.

Here's to another year of rebuilding.

 

[devilfan02]

What makes you guys think they want to win? They've turned a blind eye to the worst OL in the league and have done absolutely nothing to make it better. Your gonna tell me that the Bidwills thought Edge was the answer to our running game woes? Edge was simply a PR move to get people to the new stadium. They got extremely lucky when Leinart fell in their laps and I'm still shocked they drafted him. Thought for sure they'd F that up too. They haven't proved to me that they want to win and the worst record in the entire NFL backs that assertion.

People on this board think we're close to having a good team because we have good position players and a couple good rookies who are UNPROVEN. We are a front office (owners, GM, coaching staff) and numerous players away from being a playoff contender.

New coaching staff
New GM
1 DE
1 or 2 DB's (move Rolle to FS)
LT
C
RT
run blocking FB
OLB

A list that long doesn't show me owners who want to win

 

[john h]

Someone posed the following question:

"However, I don't buy into the thinking that the team is "jinxed", or that the "Bidwill's are losers". I especially can't appreciate the thinking that they don't want to win.

So help me understand. Give me three or four "logical" reasons that they would purposely lead the fans (whom pay the bills), and the team (which affords them their lifestyle) down a path of destruction."

To which I replied:

"IMO, part of the problem is the financial structure inherent within the NFL. The NFL allows owners like the Bidwills to do what they've done over the many decades that they've owned this team. In other words, there is little to no incentive to spend $ in the hopes of winning, due to the generous revenue-sharing formulas within the NFL.
However, one can now say that with the construction of the new stadium (although, the Bidwills only coughed up a fraction of the costs), bringing in Denny, Edge, Berry, Okeafor. Signing Q, Wilson & Dockett to long term deals. Getting Leinart signed.... One can now say that the evidence is there to support the feeling that the Bidwills are more willing to part with cash, in hopes of producing W's. Note that I continue to use the term "hope", as I do believe the Bidwills "hope" that their increased spending translates into more W's...
However, spending $$ and "hoping" to win is not nearly enough to actually produce W's. You simply can not spend and hope enough, to somehow erase the decades of record-setting futlity this franchise has achieved. It won't happen and as we've seen, it hasn't happened...
Winning in pro sports has as much to do with leadership (from the ownership all the way down to the assistant coaches) as it does with spending $$ and "hoping" to win... I am quite certain that if the Bidwills owned the only Starbucks in Scottsdale, they would find the way to run it into the ground... They would summarily piss off the multitude of employees who would pass through the revolving door, never allowing for the creation of a positive vibe, an Esprit de Team, a culture of complete reliance upon one another, knowing when and where each person would be throughout the work day. In the end, the customers would feel the dysfunction, the awkward feeling of ineptitude and the comprehensive illustration of a business floating on the ocean without an engine to power it, nor a rudder in the water to steer it... Oh, it might be a particularly appealing Starbucks from the outside. Might even have a nice patio with comfy tables and chairs to enjoy the nightime skies... But after standing in line countless times for far too long, and getting a Venti Vanilla Soy Latte when you ordered a Tall, non-fat no whip Cafe Mocha, it gets old... The incompetence becomes too much to endure...

This my friend, is what the Bidwills have created in the Cardinals... They are the only Starbucks in Scottsdale, and yet they still can't make it work...."

Anyone agree... disagree...

One only has to look at the record of the Cardinals for the past half a century and to look at the one constant in this equation to come to the obvious conclusion the Bidwills are the long term problem. It is not bad luck as this kind of bad luck would defy the law of gravity. Many people call the Cardinals the worst sports franchise in all of sports. We have been in three cities with the same horrible results. If the problem is not the Bidwills then pray what is? What would the Vegas odd be on you selecting any team and betting it would be this bad for this long? I think it would be off the board.

 

[john h]

Yes, I'll disagree. Your first part of the answer gives the reason why no team in the NFL has an incentive to win. Your second part then details evidence of them wanting to win and taking steps toward that goal; steps, I might add, that many throughout the league saw as signs of great progress.

Finally, you go into a metaphor simply stating that the Bidwills suck. Answer the question. And while you're at it, show me the evidence that they're not trying.

Decisions are not made in a vacuum. It's important to review the decisions of the owner in the context where they're made. When giving a known quantity (Buddy Ryan) the complete freedom to improve the team results in the team being torn apart, any owner would have shifted course.

As to the Starbucks analogy and their suggested propensity to piss of the employees, ask Eric Hill who signed a one day contract so he could retire a Cardinal. Ask Rob Moore who continues to work for the organization on the radio side. Say what you want about their history of losing, but as people, I've never known of someone to call them anything other than stand-up guys.

Evidence they are not trying: We are sitting on $11 million dollars CAP money. That would have bought a couple of decent linemen. The Cards have a reputation of being cheap. Call it what you want to but the fact is we appear to continually hold back CAP money. Over a period of years this will catch up with you.

 

[john h]

Mostly correct, though they do license their name to other operators occasionally.

We have a couple of small Starbuck operations in two of our local hospitals. They are located inside drugstores. I wonder if these are not licensed in some way????? They seem to small to be stand alone profit making operations.

 

[john h]

And once again, I see that mediocrity is rewarded, and the Bidwills are making strides. How does that show that they don't want to win? How does that show that they are actively taking steps to hamper this team in the name of frugality over football success?

It's easy to look at a 1-7 team and say they must be doing something wrong. But look around the room. Look around the city. Look around the country. Find me the person who looked at the decisions the Bidwills were making and predicted that Arizona would be 1-7 halfway into the season. Remember, that doesn't include you since you "had them pegged at 8 or 9" wins.

So now we have new information that none of us expected before the season began. We're upset, but lacking a souped up De Lorean and a flux capacitor, we can only strive for good decisions from this point forward.

Any owner wants to win. Even the Bidwills. The problem is are they willing to do what it takes to win? Clearly not after decades of futility and three cities.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Evidence they are not trying: We are sitting on $11 million dollars CAP money. That would have bought a couple of decent linemen. The Cards have a reputation of being cheap. Call it what you want to but the fact is we appear to continually hold back CAP money. Over a period of years this will catch up with you.

I get what you are saying here, but is this a GM issue, (meaning that RG is deciding that the best way to manage the cap is to use the extra $$ to resign players) or is this a management decision to not spend all of the money?

While we were at SDS, paying ASU 50% of the ticket sales, (was it really that high) I could understand why they were holding back. This year, a different story.

 

[earthsci]

Why does everyone say Bidwills as a plural. No one knows how Mike Bidwill would run this team if he had complete control. Maybe Mike will do what needs to be done when there is no threat of a veto from Bill.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Why does everyone say Bidwills as a plural. No one knows how Mike Bidwill would run this team if he had complete control. Maybe Mike will do what needs to be done when there is no threat of a veto from Bill.

Aren't you answering your own question? They say Bidwills plural because both are involved in the decision making.

 

[devilfan02]

Any owner wants to win. Even the Bidwills. The problem is are they willing to do what it takes to win? Clearly not after decades of futility and three cities.

They can say they want to win all they want but the fact that they have been so bad so long proves it's not that big of a deal to them. They make their money with losing teams EVERY YEAR. They don't need to win to make money, their just fine with the results their getting. $12 million in cap space and they leave numerous OL on the FA market????

 

[devilfan02]

Why does everyone say Bidwills as a plural. No one knows how Mike Bidwill would run this team if he had complete control. Maybe Mike will do what needs to be done when there is no threat of a veto from Bill.

It doesn't matter right now how Mike would operate the Cardinals. Fact is he is part of the problem NOW. Coin the "Bidwills"

 

[earthsci]

Aren't you answering your own question? They say Bidwills plural because both are involved in the decision making.

Both "involved". Who has the final say? And who's to say how many of Mike's ideas are shot down by Bill. I'm sure that Mike loves and respects his father but that doesn't necessarily mean that they always agree.

 

[earthsci]

It doesn't matter right now how Mike would operate the Cardinals. Fact is he is part of the problem NOW. Coin the "Bidwills"

It does matter because people are saying that the "Bidwills" won't do what is necessary to make this team better. We don't know that that is true.

 

[AZCB34]

It does matter because people are saying that the "Bidwills" won't do what is necessary to make this team better. We don't know that that is true.

We cannot place individual decisions on one B or another B but as a tandem, they are the highest authorities ion this organization, so even if they occasionally disagree, the decision handed down still gets dropped on both of them unless it is made clear who wanted what.

Personally, I believe Mr B lays down the law alot and it is direct contrast to what Michael thinks is the right course to set. You are talking about the age dynamic, and the parent/child dynamic in this case. Michael shouldn't be making any damn decisions regarding football operations anyway and neither should his Dad. They should have a solid, knowledgable, well respected football man in charge of that stuff. The fact they get their hands too far into the process leads to alot of the problems we see IMO.

 

[jefftheshark]

They should have a solid, knowledgable, well respected football man in charge of that stuff.

The fact they get their hands too far into the process leads to alot of the problems we see IMO.

The second sentence is why the first sentence won't happen.

The Shark

 

[earthsci]

We cannot place individual decisions on one B or another B but as a tandem, they are the highest authorities ion this organization, so even if they occasionally disagree, the decision handed down still gets dropped on both of them unless it is made clear who wanted what.

Personally, I believe Mr B lays down the law alot and it is direct contrast to what Michael thinks is the right course to set. You are talking about the age dynamic, and the parent/child dynamic in this case. Michael shouldn't be making any damn decisions regarding football operations anyway and neither should his Dad. They should have a solid, knowledgable, well respected football man in charge of that stuff. The fact they get their hands too far into the process leads to alot of the problems we see IMO.

I agree with everything that you just said.

 

[Sandan]

Evidence they are not trying: We are sitting on $11 million dollars CAP money.

No we are not.

That would have bought a couple of decent linemen. The Cards

You don't know that, who ?

 

[devilfan02]

No we are not.



You don't know that, who ?

It damn well could have got us one very good lineman which would have done wonders. Now we're stuck behind the 8 ball once again heading into this offseason. We could have easily got Mawae with some of that money last offseason, signed one OL this coming offseason, and use a top-2 round pick on a lineman and we would be looking good for next season. Not with the Bidwills, of course we have major holes heading into another dismal offseason

 

[AZCB34]

No we are not.



You don't know that, who ?

We were before the extended Dockett.

Since we stopped trying to bring in FA's pretty much after Edge, nobody will ever know what could have been done. Fact is, they had money left when there were OL still on the market and it is possible those OL could have improved this team.

 

[Skkorpion]

Listen everybody:

1. We don't get to choose owners.
2. Bill Bidwill is a failure as an owner.

Given both of those, quit making us suffer through thread after thread, year after year, ad nauseam, about "the Bidwills."

Thread closed.