Soap Box 1 of 3: What John Skelton needs to do to win me over

D-Dogg

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Skelton has simply super sick pocket poise. He has really impressed me with the way he feels the rush, moves in the pocket, and is just super calm. He also has a great ability to get better as the game goes on.

In order to win me over, however, he needs to play well early. He needs to lead some first quarter scoring drives, or early second quarter. Those types of drives are important, and so far I don't have the confidence that we can meet the "start fast" mantra that Ken pushes.

I'd love to see his accuracy improve, too, but he's been getting better there. I'm sooooo close to being all-in for Skelton, but the slow, lethargic starts just keep me on the fence.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree and why?
 

Cheesebeef

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yup. he needs to not put us in hole. i'd love to see what this D could do if handed a 10-0 or 14-0 lead.

but you gotta hand it to the kid. he has GREAT pocket presence and he's actually improving his accuracy as the season goes on.

that being said, he's got a long way to go, but it's kind of fun to watch him grow on the job.

if there's not a legit QB competition next year between him and Kolb, something ain't right.
 

Lomax to Green 84

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Skelton has the elusive "it" quality and that is a really good thing. I'm not even comparing the 2 in terms of production/potential etc.. but Skelton's rise to starter is kind of similar to what Tom Brady did back in 2001. 5 games into the 2001 season people were talking about the Patriots being the worst team in the AFC. The entrenched starter (Bledsoe) goes down with injury and the unknown (Brady) comes in and wins games. People forget that Brady wasn't the 4500 yard 50 touchdown type quarterback back when they were winning those Super Bowls a decade ago. He was a game manager who had a very solid defense.

The comment by Fitzgerald about Skelton leading the huddle like a multiple Super Bowl winner is really cool stuff. You just don't hear those types of comments about young quarterbacks very often, especially late 5th round picks from tiny schools like Fordham. That intangible by itself makes Skelton a very enticing option longterm for the Big Red.

Skelton reminds me of the quarterback from the movie "The Program". He doesn't fit your typical pretty boy image and he definitely has flaws, but his teammates would run through a brick wall for the guy because they know he would do the same for them. The comments made by his O-linemen about how much they love John Skelton is a huge endorsement.
 

Dback Jon

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Of course, in the last game, the DEFENSE put the O in a hole right away.
 

RedRob

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The one issue I have is...

A comparison was made last week to Ben R. and I see that quality in him. Having that size is a huge help when it comes to shrugging off would be sackers and delivering a pass that a smaller QB wouldn't.

The one consistent negative I see, and I'm hoping this is easily correctable, is his tendency to throw high. It happens way too often, why he's able to become more accurate as the game goes on is beyond me.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Double Deuce !!!!!!

Pros:

- Poise: The number one thing I like about Skelton is his poise. He just does not get rattled. I have seen him mad, maybe twice. Yet, I can say the same thing about when he is successful, that he doesn't celebrate either. He is even keeled through the entire game. So steal a cliche', The game is not too big for him.

- Humble: Even after wins Skelton admits he has to play better, that he is missing throws during the game, and that the team is helping him win these games. Furthermore, he supports the team in whatever decision they make about who is going to start each game at QB, and supports Kevin Kolb as the named starter.

- Physical Size, Strength, and Age: 6'6", 244lbs. The reality is, that this helps. He easily sees over the offensive line, and he is able to take hits from the defense. Its allows him to "avoid" the pass rush with a step here or there, and break arm tackles. Yet, with this size he still has adequate ability to run with the ball. It is nothing special, and he is not too fast, but he can make a play on his feet need be. Finally, he is only 23 years old. For a QB, if he develops, he has 12 years in front him.

- "Pocket Passer": Skelton stays in the pocket. He has the courage to take a hit for the sake of getting a pass off [think the pass in Philly to Fitz at the end of the game]. Now, he doesn't do it EVERY time, but more in more when he has to avoid a pass rush he will step up into the pocket to try and create a small amount of time to get a pass off. Plus by doing so, when he does take a sack (and he does take too many sacks) it is not for minus 20 yards, but usually less then 10.

- Passing Skill: Skelton has an NFL arm. I don't worry about him not having the ability to make a throw anywhere on the field. Furthermore, he is not scared to make NFL throws in tight windows. On the other end of the spectrum he also has a very rare ability (at least rare from what I have seen) to throw really nice touch passes [think Fitz in OT vs. the Browns]. While there is no doubt that his accuracy MUST improve, it is not like he has not shown any ability to make a good accurate pass, he just has to be more consistent. There are a hand full of passes that he has made, that have been a thing of beauty. He will fit a pass into tight spaces, and do so with confidence [think the long TD pass to Doucet against SF].

-He wins games & is clutch: The record speaks for itself. The guy is a winner, and makes clutch passes in crunch time. He can drive this team to score in crunch time. He has had some really beautiful passes for the Cardinals. In Philly, the pass to LSH (4th down), and the pass to Fitz. Last year against Dallas, the pass to Fitz (4th down). The pass to Fitz to win it in OT against the Browns. Not to mention some great drives, etc., etc. As I stated above, the game never seems to get too big for him. To put it bluntly, I don't feel out of a game with Skelton at QB, and always think he could come back from a deficit, or make that 3rd down/4th down pass to continue a drive.


Cons:

-Decision Making: This is Skelton's #1 problem as a NFL QB. I would dare to say that a majority of his INT's are because he made horrible decisions. He walks that fine line of squeezing the ball into a tight space, and throwing a throw into a poor situation. It is the INT's that he has thrown against Philly to Asumagha, or the INT he threw in the SF game down the right sideline that are so concerning. Those are horrible decisions, and setup huge returns. Those come back to kill you. Those can be corrected with time, but the QB has to work on it, or he will just repeat the same mistake when the heat is on. The 2nd type of bad decision making INT, is Skelton doing too much. You can see he wants to extend plays, and make something out of nothing. This is the old Brett Farve syndrome. Just stupid decisions, trying to make something happen when he should throw the ball away or eat it. Think of that horrendous pass attempt to Larry Fitz in the middle of the field in the SF game. Can't do that.

- Passing Accuracy: He has the ability to be an accurate passer. He has shown it. But, he still has to improve. There are about 5 to 6 passes a game that he either throws too high, too low, or, and this is his worse attribute, behind a receiver going across the middle. I would hope with time, work, and experience he would improve these throws. At least the ones across the middle he is not missing by much, but they seems to always be a bit behind the receiver.

- Reading the field after the snap: I am OK with how Skelton reads the field pre-snap. But, post-snap he is 50-50 at best. Holds the ball a little to long at first, and will miss throws to open receivers. He makes up for it with a run here, and a decent dump off pass there, but he has to improve. The guy can make a seam pass better than most I have seen, but he has to "see it" to throw it. He is not there yet.

- Slow Starts: Again Skelton walks that fine line between even-keeled and not competitive enough. I believe this is why Skelton starts so slowly in games. Part of this position is being competitive, and having a little bit a fire. One thing about competitive and overly-physical sports is some times you have to wake-up. Sometimes it takes talking, and "hyping up" for the games. For some it is a big hit that will take you up and get you in the zone. I think Skelton has to find a way to get into game mode before the ball is kicked off. You cannot continue to put yourself in a hole during a game, wake up, and come back. Jake Plummer did this as well, and while he was a good QB, he could never make the step to be a great QB cause he constantly put himself behind the eight-ball, thus regardless of how well he could play, he never had the success he could have had because he never "woke up" in the beginning of games. It is great to come back against playoff contenders, but you gotta put the bottom-feeder teams away early. Close games are fine against competitive teams, but not against poor teams. No need to play a close game against 1-__ teams.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much, as expected, I see a lot in John Skelton that would allow him to be a very good QB in the NFL. Everyone looks down on this guy, "a 5th round pick from Fordham". And ? Who cares? From what I have heard, Skelton LIT IT UP in Fordham. He has thrown for 400 yard games, broken passing records, etc., etc., etc. He has the experience of taking a team on his back and being the offense. He is certainly not there yet in the NFL, but I think with some work, and experience he has the tools to light it up in the NFL.

The guy is 23 yrs old, hand picked by our organization, Head Coach, and Offensive Coordinator. Why is it such a ridiculous idea to play Skelton, and develop him ? Because we signed Kolb to a big contract, and gave up a really good CB prospect ? Who cares ? I understand, accept, and even congratulate the Cardinals for going out, and getting a QB they thought could help this team. It is not working out the way they planned that is for sure, but nothing in the NFL is 100% fool proof. So, you the QB you had on your roster is showing promise over the high priced guy. So what ? It happens, it is not the front office's fault, they did what they had to do. Just take the success, and don't worry about the fact you couldn't see the future and made a move that very few were against at the time.

Obviously I am all for going with John Skelton as the starter.
 
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Russ Smith

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Skelton has simply super sick pocket poise. He has really impressed me with the way he feels the rush, moves in the pocket, and is just super calm. He also has a great ability to get better as the game goes on.

In order to win me over, however, he needs to play well early. He needs to lead some first quarter scoring drives, or early second quarter. Those types of drives are important, and so far I don't have the confidence that we can meet the "start fast" mantra that Ken pushes.

I'd love to see his accuracy improve, too, but he's been getting better there. I'm sooooo close to being all-in for Skelton, but the slow, lethargic starts just keep me on the fence.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree and why?

Maybe write him an open letter that seems to work well.
 

Russ Smith

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yup. he needs to not put us in hole. i'd love to see what this D could do if handed a 10-0 or 14-0 lead.

but you gotta hand it to the kid. he has GREAT pocket presence and he's actually improving his accuracy as the season goes on.

that being said, he's got a long way to go, but it's kind of fun to watch him grow on the job.

if there's not a legit QB competition next year between him and Kolb, something ain't right.

One comment on pocket presence, he's certainly more calm in the pocket than Kolb is but there is a difference between standing there until you get hit, and having pocket presence.

Skelton every now and then will just brain lock and stand there with a guy coming right at him like he thinks it's practice and they're not allowed to hit him. Seems to happen a couple of times a game.

What I like about him is he can make a hugely bad mistake and then come right back and make a nice throw next chance, he seems to both learn from mistakes and have a short memory so they don't bother him going forward.

What I don't like about him is the accuracy I'm just not convinced it's really just his footwork I just think he's not very accurate although I hope that can be improved with time.
 

MadCardDisease

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Skelton has all of the physical tools you want in a QB. Then again so did Josh McCown for the most part.

For Skelton it all comes down to what's going on between his ears. Right now it just looks like the game is still fast for him. Rarely does he go through his progressions. He tends to lock onto a receiver and will often try to force a throw when he shouldn't. This leads to unnecessary turnovers.

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that he is still very Raw. Coming from such a small college program and having very limited time the last two offseasons to learn the offense has held him back.

With Skelton it will just take more time to see what we have in him. Right now I'm hopefully optomistic.
 

82CardsGrad

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Agree with just about everything mentioned in this thread... He simply has to cut down on the poor decisions/REALLY BAD throws. He continues to miss guys that are wide open, and continues to throw balls into tight, double and sometimes triple coverage.

If he can do that, it seems pretty clear that he's got just about everything else required to have a long, productive and solid NFL career.
 

Krangodnzr

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- Reading the field after the snap: I am OK with how Skelton reads the field pre-snap. But, post-snap he is 50-50 at best. Holds the ball a little to long at first, and will miss throws to open receivers. He makes up for it with a run here, and a decent dump off pass there, but he has to improve. The guy can make a seam pass better than most I have seen, but he has to "see it" to throw it. He is not there yet.

I have to disagree with his pre-snap reads. He's terrible here at it, it's one of the reasons he takes so long to throw the ball, he's not to the point yet that he can read what a defense is doing based on presnap formations.

What I love about Skelton is that he is genuinely showing progress. We've seen his accuracy improve, though he's got extreme touch and timing issues throwing to receivers in tight spaces across the middle. IMO if Skelton figures out how to read a defense presnap (a hard earned ability) and improves on his touch/timing throws across the middle, John Skelton could be our QB of the present and future.

I stayed away from posting on this board for over a month, since I'm not the type to dwell on negativity (and I went to Korea for a month for an exercise), but I'm now genuinely excited about this franchise again. This team looks like the rebuilding process is working and I have a new found faith in Whisenhunt and the front office.
 

Jetstream Green

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I'm hoping Skelton's problems early in the game are due to his youth and lack of looks on all the defensive schemes which need to come natural in his progression of actions before he can be comfortable enough early on. He has to see it now before he can adjust unlike a vet, watching tape for him right now is not enough because live ball looks different down on the field and he has to process this.
 

Darkside

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Skelton has simply super sick pocket poise. He has really impressed me with the way he feels the rush, moves in the pocket, and is just super calm. He also has a great ability to get better as the game goes on.

In order to win me over, however, he needs to play well early. He needs to lead some first quarter scoring drives, or early second quarter. Those types of drives are important, and so far I don't have the confidence that we can meet the "start fast" mantra that Ken pushes.

I'd love to see his accuracy improve, too, but he's been getting better there. I'm sooooo close to being all-in for Skelton, but the slow, lethargic starts just keep me on the fence.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree and why?

Mostly agree. Except that Skelton's probably already won me over. Getting somewhat weary, however, talking about Skelton's poise and intangibles. Intangibles suck to talk about. Whis praised DA's intangibles too. The problem wasn't so much DA's supersucky accuracy (which isn't greatly different than Skelton's right now: DA had a 51.7 completion percentage and a 65.9 QB rating while Skelton is 55.5 and 69.8): the problem was DA didn't have any of the intangibles Whis thought he did. Skelton has all of them and possibly more.

I truly believe Skelton is a Whis type QB. He's the anti-Leinart in mentality (imagine Skelton whining to the media) and just as calm and (almost) robotic as Whisenhunt himself. I think when Whis says the system works and dudes need to stick with it, that a guy like Skelton believes that. He's not going to flinch or get his panties in a bunch publicly over anything. Imagine Skelton going off and telling everyone how important this sh*t is to him. Not going to happen, he's a Whis type guy through and through, because he's mentally tough.
 
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Cheesebeef

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the only intangible that DA had was he could take a beating. that being said, he usually deserved one with the way he played so it all comes out in the wash.

Derek Anderson/Max Hall/Skelton as a rookie/Bartel!?

Did that REALLY happen on an NFL team last year? man, that was brutal.
 

PACardsFan

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Mostly agree. Except that Skelton's probably already won me over. Getting somewhat weary, however, talking about Skelton's poise and intangibles. Intangibles suck to talk about. Whis praised DA's intangibles too. The problem wasn't so much DA's supersucky accuracy (which isn't greatly different than Skelton's right now: DA had a 51.7 completion percentage and a 65.9 QB rating while Skelton is 55.5 and 69.8): the problem was DA didn't have any of the intangibles Whis thought he did. Skelton has all of them and possibly more.

I truly believe Skelton is a Whis type QB. He's the anti-Leinart in mentality (imagine Skelton whining to the media) and just as calm and (almost) robotic as Whisenhunt himself. I think when Whis says the system works and dudes need to stick with it, that a guy like Skelton believes that. He's not going to flinch or get his panties in a bunch publicly over anything. Imagine Skelton going off and telling everyone how important this sh*t is to him. Not going to happen, he's a Whis type guy through and through, because he's mentally tough.

Very good post!! IMO, dead on correct.
 

Duckjake

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the only intangible that DA had was he could take a beating. that being said, he usually deserved one with the way he played so it all comes out in the wash.

Derek Anderson/Max Hall/Skelton as a rookie/Bartel!?

Did that REALLY happen on an NFL team last year? man, that was brutal.

How brutal was it? The Cards scored 289 points and 72 of those came from kickoff returns, interception returns and fumble recoveries. The Cards had only 19 TDs passing+rushing. In 2009 they had 43 and in 2008, 66!
 

john h

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Skelton has simply super sick pocket poise. He has really impressed me with the way he feels the rush, moves in the pocket, and is just super calm. He also has a great ability to get better as the game goes on.

In order to win me over, however, he needs to play well early. He needs to lead some first quarter scoring drives, or early second quarter. Those types of drives are important, and so far I don't have the confidence that we can meet the "start fast" mantra that Ken pushes.

I'd love to see his accuracy improve, too, but he's been getting better there. I'm sooooo close to being all-in for Skelton, but the slow, lethargic starts just keep me on the fence.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree and why?

To win me over is very simple. Just win.
 
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Pros:

- Poise: The number one thing I like about Skelton is his poise.

- Humble: Even after wins Skelton admits he has to play better, that he is missing throws during the game, and that the team is helping him win these games. Furthermore, he supports the team in whatever decision they make about who is going to start each game at QB, and supports Kevin Kolb as the named starter.

- Physical Size, Strength, and Age: 6'6", 244lbs.

- "Pocket Passer": Skelton stays in the pocket.

- Passing Skill: Skelton has an NFL arm.

-He wins games & is clutch: The record speaks for itself. The guy is a winner...

Cons:

-Decision Making: This is Skelton's #1 problem as a NFL QB.

- Passing Accuracy: He has the ability to be an accurate passer. He has shown it. But, he still has to improve.

- Reading the field after the snap: .

- Slow Starts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Pretty much, as expected, I see a lot in John Skelton that would allow him to be a very good QB in the NFL. Everyone looks down on this guy, "a 5th round pick from Fordham". And ? Who cares? From what I have heard, Skelton LIT IT UP in Fordham. He has thrown for 400 yard games, broken passing records, etc., etc., etc. He has the experience of taking a team on his back and being the offense. He is certainly not there yet in the NFL, but I think with some work, and experience he has the tools to light it up in the NFL.

The guy is 23 yrs old, hand picked by our organization, Head Coach, and Offensive Coordinator. Why is it such a ridiculous idea to play Skelton, and develop him ? Because we signed Kolb to a big contract, and gave up a really good CB prospect ? Who cares ? I understand, accept, and even congratulate the Cardinals for going out, and getting a QB they thought could help this team. It is not working out the way they planned that is for sure, but nothing in the NFL is 100% fool proof. So, you the QB you had on your roster is showing promise over the high priced guy. So what ? It happens, it is not the front office's fault, they did what they had to do. Just take the success, and don't worry about the fact you couldn't see the future and made a move that very few were against at the time.

Obviously I am all for going with John Skelton as the starter.
Excellent post!
 

Bobcat

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Skelton has simply super sick pocket poise. He has really impressed me with the way he feels the rush, moves in the pocket, and is just super calm. He also has a great ability to get better as the game goes on.

In order to win me over, however, he needs to play well early. He needs to lead some first quarter scoring drives, or early second quarter. Those types of drives are important, and so far I don't have the confidence that we can meet the "start fast" mantra that Ken pushes.

I'd love to see his accuracy improve, too, but he's been getting better there. I'm sooooo close to being all-in for Skelton, but the slow, lethargic starts just keep me on the fence.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree and why?

Just needs more in game playing time to develop.

 

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