Some thoughts on the defense

[eastcoastDave]

By any standard, any yardstick, the Cardinals defense was terrible. Just awful. Yeah, yeah, Kansas City is a very good team, but they totally embarrassed the Cardinals. If this is the measure used to gauge the team…, well, we’re in trouble. And I don’t care what schemes or planning anyone saw. The Cardinals, after years of high drafts, simply do not have the players to keep up with the top teams in the NFL. There’s only one place this critique lands, and that’s in the GM’s office. He’s done an awful job of putting good players on the team.

 

[kerouac9]

Other than Baker and Thompson, are there any players on the Cards D that would be sure starts for another team. I don't think so.

I’d agree that Allen could start for a majority of NFL teams.

 

[kerouac9]

It seems weird when, at the ending the season, the book on Mahomes was supposed to a revision of the Warner book: drop everyone into coverage and make him complete passes to MVS.

Instead we blitz a ton, none of them get home, and the crossing routes have time to develop.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It seems weird when, at the ending the season, the book on Mahomes was supposed to a revision of the Warner book: drop everyone into coverage and make him complete passes to MVS.

Instead we blitz a ton, none of them get home, and the crossing routes have time to develop.

Yep I was watching the same game, baffled that they were blitzing.

Alex Rollins did a YouTube episode:

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[Krangodnzr]

Mahomes is just so good at evading a blitz and at the last second zinging an accurate pass to a player down field. Crazy that Vance would blitz so often. Against most QBs the Cardinals walk away with 3+ sacks, but not against Mahomes.

 

[Chopper0080]

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This is the issue with Vance. He does what he does regardless of the reasons you shouldn't.

Knowing you are outmanned you can't blitz that much. Especially when the book is not to blitz.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

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Offense was middle of the pack yesterday. Defense was off the charts bad.

 

[Stout]

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Offense was middle of the pack yesterday. Defense was off the charts bad.

How was our offense through 3 quarters before the Chiefs adjusted their defensive approach?

 

[JeffGollin]

I'm talking about scheme wise. I said they played gash. The scheme was sound, just players sucked.

Ergo - the team sucks. No one (including the scrutinizer) should escape scrutiny.

 

[JeffGollin]

By any standard, any yardstick, the Cardinals defense was terrible. Just awful. Yeah, yeah, Kansas City is a very good team, but they totally embarrassed the Cardinals. If this is the measure used to gauge the team…, well, we’re in trouble. And I don’t care what schemes or planning anyone saw. The Cardinals, after years of high drafts, simply do not have the players to keep up with the top teams in the NFL. There’s only one place this critique lands, and that’s in the GM’s office. He’s done an awful job of putting good players on the team.

What I saw was pass rush pressure put on Mahomes but incompetant coverage by our DB’s which created huge “areas of safety” for their receivers. Solve the fiasco that is pass coverage and the rest of our defense won’t look so bad.

 

[Snakester]

Not playing any of the starters all preseason showed big time. Hopefully Kliff will see this and not do it again. Vance Joseph has never been a good DC. He should have been fired after his first season. Actually Keim should have never hired him in the first place.

Not having JJ Watt is huge. He’s the only player that brings swagger and attitude. Murray looked rusty as well be that Kliffs fault for not playing him.

 

[BritCard]

Brit, when you say that Simmons looked slow (And I'm sure you're right) that tells me he's thinking when he should be reacting. Hopefully, he can improve with experience.

He looked slow running in straight lines, not just slow in reacting.

 

[BritCard]

Yep I was watching the same game, baffled that they were blitzing.

Alex Rollins did a YouTube episode:

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My only thought on the blitzing is that with the injuries at CB they thought they would try something Mahomes hasn't faced in a while to try put him off his game?

We hit him quite a lot. Sadly, we couldn't cover for crap.

I guess I'd rather get beat being aggressive than playing soft and prevent. They would have beat us either way as the O sucked too.

I've seen more game threads criticizing Vance for not playing aggressive than I've had hot dinners. Had we not blitzed and got beat by the same score this thread would be full of "Why didn't we blitz more?"

Players just sucked. Some more than others but some key ones sucked.

 

[Krangodnzr]

My only thought on the blitzing is that with the injuries at CB they thought they would try something Mahomes hasn't faced in a while to try put him off his game?

We hit him quite a lot. Sadly, we couldn't cover for crap.

I guess I'd rather get beat being aggressive than playing soft and prevent. They would have beat us either way as the O sucked too.

But the blitz Mahomes over and over strategy is a proven loser. It doesn't work. Why do something that has been a historical loser? It's an awful strategy.

 

[BritCard]

But the blitz Mahomes over and over strategy is a proven loser. It doesn't work. Why do something that has been a historical loser? It's an awful strategy.

I don't think they did at the beginning. My recollection (I'm not going to watch it again) is that through Q1 and a chunk of Q2 they didn't blitz, or rarely, and they just picked up apart and scored on every drive.

Then they started blitzing more, did force a couple of punts and looked a bit better.

But it wasn't blitzing got us beat. They tore us up blitzing or not. We blitzed 52% was it? Well they tore us up on the other 48% too.

 

[Russ Smith]

It seems weird when, at the ending the season, the book on Mahomes was supposed to a revision of the Warner book: drop everyone into coverage and make him complete passes to MVS.

Instead we blitz a ton, none of them get home, and the crossing routes have time to develop.

I assume it was we didn't trust the CB's so we thought we had to blitz to make him throw quickly but Mahomes just constantly found the mismatch and got extra time to throw it. As Romo pointed out we were blitzing without often bringing more than 4 because we'd drop a lineman into coverage and bring a Safety but they read it every time.

The play where Romo pre snap told us Whittaker was going to blitz and then he did sort of proved if a retired QB can pick it up that easily you'd assume the KC staff and Mahomes can to and they did.

I get why he didn't trust his CB's but we ended up with even worse mismatches.

 

[BritCard]

On the plus side Dogbe played well.

I thought Allen, Golden and Gardeck were solid to good. Zaven was solid if unspectacular. I thought Murphy did well, or at least I don't really recall him getting beat on anything.

I was a little disappointed in Thompson and Budda. They led in tackles but all those tackles were 15 yards downfield. I didn't feel like either did anything in coverage or around the box to effect the game.

Simmons, Turner, Vigil, Whitaker, Wilson were awful.

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[BritCard]

I assume it was we didn't trust the CB's so we thought we had to blitz to make him throw quickly but Mahomes just constantly found the mismatch and got extra time to throw it. As Romo pointed out we were blitzing without often bringing more than 4 because we'd drop a lineman into coverage and bring a Safety but they read it every time.

The play where Romo pre snap told us Whittaker was going to blitz and then he did sort of proved if a retired QB can pick it up that easily you'd assume the KC staff and Mahomes can to and they did.

I get why he didn't trust his CB's but we ended up with even worse mismatches.

I was wondering how they count blitzes too. Do they count a blitz as any time a safety or CB rushes a CB or when it's 5 or more rushers?

Because I'll be honest, I didn't see a lot of 5 or more rushers that I recall, but as you said, there was a lot of Gardeck dropping into coverage and a slot blitzing in his place.

 

[Russ Smith]

I was wondering how they count blitzes too. Do they count a blitz as any time a safety or CB rushes a CB or when it's 5 or more rushers?

Because I'll be honest, I didn't see a lot of 5 or more rushers that I recall, but as you said, there was a lot of Gardeck dropping into coverage and a slot blitzing in his place.

Yeah Romo pointed it out several times we brought 4 but one of them was a DB or a LB in a disguised blitz. But Mahomes always found the mismatch in coverage as a result.

Hated Romo as a player but still really like him as a Tv guy even though they apparently told him to stop calling out plays so much in advance. I actually liked that but they allegedly they told him not to do it as often.

 

[Krangodnzr]

On the plus side Dogbe played well.

I thought Allen, Golden and Gardeck were solid to good. Zaven was solid if unspectacular. I thought Murphy did well, or at least I don't really recall him getting beat on anything.

I was a little disappointed in Thompson and Budda. They led in tackles but all those tackles were 15 yards downfield. I didn't feel like either did anything in coverage or around the box to effect the game.

Simmons, Turner, Vigil, Whitaker, Wilson were awful.

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I've always wondered why the Cardinals seem to always have Dogbe on the fringe of the roster, but he always looks like one of their top DL. He always looks better than Lawrence and Fotu.

 

[Stout]

What I saw was pass rush pressure put on Mahomes but incompetant coverage by our DB’s which created huge “areas of safety” for their receivers. Solve the fiasco that is pass coverage and the rest of our defense won’t look so bad.

Well, we had to blitz a lot to generate that pressure, and Mahomes eats the blitz alive. We need to be able to generate a pass rush without needing to blitz.

 

[Stout]

He looked slow running in straight lines, not just slow in reacting.

He did. Which is weird, considering his athletic ability.

 

[wa52lz]

Meanwhile in Minnesota, Hicks 14 (9-5) and Campbell 11 (5-6) were leading their respective teams in tackles. That is all

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[FB94]

For how much Wolf is a blowhard, he is dead on when more things change, they remain the same. Build a dominate OL and DL. If you can’t have both build one at least.

 

[juza76]

He did. Which is weird, considering his athletic ability.

If u remember their first td pass, Simmons was slow recognizing the play, then chased the player without watching back the ball trajectory, he was slow reacting but he closed the gap quickly
Anyway being so slow reacting it waste all his athletic abilities