Some Thoughts

Mitch

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1. Kolb: something is wrong when you stack the T and TE to block T-Sizzle and he goes wide of BOTH of them and still has a direct shot at the QB. As many of us have been stating, Kolb sets the back edge of the pocket too deep and then his instinct under pressure is not to step up---but to run wide or backwards---by then he has distanced himself so far from his WRs that finding them and throwing to them moving way wide or backward is almost impossible.

The problem for the blockers is that as deep as Kolb stations himself it makes it all the more difficult to fan and ride. Yes, as we know the Cardinals' tackles are not even average pass protectors---but protecting an unconventional QB who avoids stepping into the pocket makes it much worse.

Kolb's decision making and execution in the second half was abysmal. With a lead---he at least should be conscious of not turning the ball over---but, look at HOW he turned the ball over---his play was reckless---look at the way he threw the ball up for grabs (lucky the second interception was called back on an iffy call)---and how about the way he exposed the ball on his scramble---that was a gift-wrapped fumble and it ruined the game and the Cardinals best chances.

Then we learn he had trouble planting the whole second half---well, if you can't plant and all you do is throw of the back foot or running backward---what chances did the Cardinals have?

2. Whisenhunt: again---playing an injured player to the detriment of the team. Again, running an offense that tips off the snap and puts no pressure on the opposing defense as virtually all the throws are dinks and dunks with an occasional; 15 yard out pass to Fitz.

By the way---watching the Cardinals' offense, do you ever get the sense of what they are trying to do? Every pass play looks like a version of the one before it---a lot of short hooks, drags, outs---overloading zones---with occasional seam passes.

And for those who think the Cardinals lack talent on offense---this just isn't so. They have good talent and depth at the skill positions (take LSH for example, who is grossly under-utilized)---but it's wasted talent because of the system and the inconsistent, ragged performance from the QB.

Going back to the Steeler game---did you see that the Pats found themselves threatening the Steelers late in the game when they scored with 2:30 left to make it 23-17. Belichick had all 3 TOs like Whisenhunt did---and Belichick wasn't even TWO scores behind. Do you think Belichick elected to eschew the on-side kick? Not a chance. The Pats' on-side attempt failed---but it was by far the right call. As Herm Edwards says, "You play to win the game."

The Cardinals were TWO scores down---same scenario (time and TOs) and kick off deep. That is how hapless this HC is.

3. Skelton: while it would be very interesting to see what Kevin Kolb would look like playing for a HC who will not allow Kolb's bad habits---and while Kolb's instincts indicate he lacks the mettle and the hunger to do what it takes to win---there's no sense giving up on him completely at this point. However, it may do Kolb some good to watch a game from the sidelines---especially to see like we all will what the offense looks like with a QB who will define and step up into the pocket.

Skelton is apt to be rusty---but---I think we will see a noticeable difference in what a poised QB can do---and if Skelton can get into a rhythm, who knows? But to expect that from him after not playing for the last 8 weeks would be naive.

The whole offense will look calmer with Skelton in there. Right now this offense needs a calm presence.

4. Patrick Peterson. Once he learns to come off the press with the idea of beating his man to the ball, he is going to be Charles Woodson-esque. Too bad he got a little handsy with Boldin on the attempted TD pass, because had Peterson tried to beat Q to the ball, he could have intercepted that pass...on what was one of the key plays of the game.

The CB coverage was better, Jefferson too---save for, mostly in Jefferson's case, not playing the ball (and some great catches on near perfect throws---Q's one hander, Smith's go pass late---but there is some real progress being made there and the CB could start to become one of the real strengths, particularly if Schofield and Acho keep stepping up.

5. Michael Adams: sure, like all slot CBs he is not going to defend every pass---but the Cardinal defense is better whenever he is on the field because he tackles with authority and it sets the tempo for all the other players. And you know what? Adams dogged TE Ed Dickson pretty well in that second half---especially considering the heigh disadvantage. How about the pass up the seam in Dickson's hands that Adams punched out. Nice!

Marshall is close to becoming a good player---that is if and when he stops over-reacting and over-thinking and starts to play on instincts and when he gets a little more physical in his press coverage. His coverage on Torrey Smith's go pass was good---had Marshall pressed him better that's an incomplete pass.

6. Feely: back to being clutch.
 

52brandon

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I agree with your write-up on everything but Skelton. I think starting him at this point will fix nothing and actually make things harder moving forward. If Kolb is to be our guy, we're not taking the division this season by any means, he needs the time and reps with this unit. The rest of the year, they need to just treat like practice and relax and go through the motions. ****ing nothing is on the line for the team anymore, might as well slowly try to move forward rather than stepping back to try and stabilize for a second just to stumble going forward again
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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I agree with your write-up on everything but Skelton. I think starting him at this point will fix nothing and actually make things harder moving forward. If Kolb is to be our guy, we're not taking the division this season by any means, he needs the time and reps with this unit. The rest of the year, they need to just treat like practice and relax and go through the motions. ****ing nothing is on the line for the team anymore, might as well slowly try to move forward rather than stepping back to try and stabilize for a second just to stumble going forward again

Aren't you the least bit curious to see what a QB with pocket presence can do?

Better yet, a QB with physical and mental toughness?

This is an incredibly SOFT football team. TOUGH players in this organization retire (Warner) or get traded (Boldin, THT)---or stay relegated to the bench like Skelton and Lutui.

I think it would be an eye-opener to see just how different the offense looks with a guy at QB who is not jittery. Like I said, he is bound to be rusty---but he is not going to panic under pressure.

Maybe I am watching different games. I am at the point where when Kolb drops back I cringe. Please tell me why I am wrong---or why I should feel confident instead. And please don't blame this all on the tackles---tackles need to know their QB will step inside the rush.
 

TRW

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If Kolb is hindered IN THE LEAST with that toe, then Skelton should get the reps in practice with the first stringers and start next Sunday. He may blow, but at least we will find out. Of course, if he DOES blow, then his supporters will say "What did you expect? Give him the rest of the season.". But Skelton will get, maybe, one week under this HC no matter how he does.

I wouldn't be shocked if Whisenhunt cut off his own nose to spite his face and started Bartel over Skelton to keep Skelton making him look like the ass he is! The man is a serial butt head.

Oh well....
 

kerouac9

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Sigh. If we were playing the Eagles or the Ravens or someone, Skelton might get the start. But Whis is being honest when he says that the team is desperate for a win. They NEED one, if only to stay somewhat relevant in the national/local consciousness.

Kolb gives us the best chance to win. Against a Rams team that is still trying to get their feet under them, I trust him to deliver more than Skelton.
 

52brandon

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Aren't you the least bit curious to see what a QB with pocket presence can do?

Better yet, a QB with physical and mental toughness?

This is an incredibly SOFT football team. TOUGH players in this organization retire (Warner) or get traded (Boldin, THT)---or stay relegated to the bench like Skelton and Lutui.

I think it would be an eye-opener to see just how different the offense looks with a guy at QB who is not jittery. Like I said, he is bound to be rusty---but he is not going to panic under pressure.

Maybe I am watching different games. I am at the point where when Kolb drops back I cringe. Please tell me why I am wrong---or why I should feel confident instead. And please don't blame this all on the tackles---tackles need to know their QB will step inside the rush.
of course I'm curious of what Skelton would do. I think he is a capable young QB. But curiosity doesn't give way to logic. I'm curious what happens when you die too. I'm not gonna jump in front of a bus to find out

I know you lack confidence in Kolb. We all do. Even The man himself. That's the problem. If he is to be our guy, he needs all the time in there as he can get. I thought they played him too little in preseason for how fresh he is here. If he can go Sunday, he should. To pull the plug on him now I think would be a mistake and push us further into controversy. Look at what happened in Denver. They went from Orton, no question; to, well it could be any of the 3. With Bartel outperforming Skelton in preseason just like Quinn to Tebow out there, we would put ourselves in much the same situation. I think that situation will only make the team worse and will shake all confidence in everybody involved. Shaking up the QBs I would bet is the only way Whiz's job comes into question this season
 

Phrazbit

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Sigh. If we were playing the Eagles or the Ravens or someone, Skelton might get the start. But Whis is being honest when he says that the team is desperate for a win. They NEED one, if only to stay somewhat relevant in the national/local consciousness.

Kolb gives us the best chance to win. Against a Rams team that is still trying to get their feet under them, I trust him to deliver more than Skelton.

Why? I really am not trying to be an ass, but why?

Last year as a rookie from D2 Skelton protected the ball and didnt take killer sacks. Kolb as a 5th year vet looks totally lost when it comes to the speed and awareness of the NFL.

I see no reason to assume Kolb is better than Skelton or gives the team a better chance to win.
 

kerouac9

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Why? I really am not trying to be an ass, but why?

Last year as a rookie from D2 Skelton protected the ball and didnt take killer sacks. Kolb as a 5th year vet looks totally lost when it comes to the speed and awareness of the NFL.

I see no reason to assume Kolb is better than Skelton or gives the team a better chance to win.

Because Kolb in 7 games has averaged 7.5 YPA, 56.8% completions, a sack every 9.45 dropbacks (!!!!), and a pick every 28.4 attempts.

Skelton in 4 games last year averaged 5.3 YPA, 47.6% completions, a sack every 14 dropbacks, and a pick every 63 attempts.

The sack and INT ratios certainly favor Skelton, but if you're going to be passing, I'll take the guy that's going to complete the pass nearly 10% more frequently, and get you 2 more yards whenever he drops back.

Trust me, I don't like Kevin Kolb, and haven't from the beginning. But Skelton last season was a zero. The Cowboys game was great and everything, but he had about as much to do with that win as Max Hall did with the win against New Orleans. He did nothing in the Denver win.

If I thought that "protecting the ball and not taking killer sacks" were all we needed from the QB position, I might prefer Skelton. Maybe that's all it'll take in this game. But I think that the Rams are going to take that same tack, and they'll be playing with Steven Jackson, who routinely murders the Cards.

I think it'll take 27 points to beat the Rams; I don't think that Skelton has the ability to do that right now.
 

52brandon

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Because Kolb in 7 games has averaged 7.5 YPA, 56.8% completions, a sack every 9.45 dropbacks (!!!!) as much kolb's fault as the line. He doesn't throw away when he should and runs INTO pressure, and a pick every 28.4 attempts.

Skelton in 4 games last year averaged 5.3 YPA, 47.6% completions, a sack every 14 dropbacks, and a pick every 63 attempts.

The sack and INT ratios certainly favor Skelton, but if you're going to be passing, I'll take the guy that's going to complete the pass nearly 10% more frequently, and get you 2 more yards whenever he drops back.

Trust me, I don't like Kevin Kolb, and haven't from the beginning. But Skelton last season was a zero. The Cowboys game was great and everything, but he had about as much to do with that win as Max Hall did with the win against New Orleans. He did nothing in the Denver win.

If I thought that "protecting the ball and not taking killer sacks" were all we needed from the QB position, I might prefer Skelton. Maybe that's all it'll take in this game. But I think that the Rams are going to take that same tack, and they'll be playing with Steven Jackson, who routinely murders the Cards.

I think it'll take 27 points to beat the Rams; I don't think that Skelton has the ability to do that right now.
nor Kolb. Without the D or special teams setting it all up. How many drives has he taken from the 20 or within down to score this year?
my thoughts in red

Now I agree with you, but for different reasons
 

40yearfan

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5. Michael Adams: sure, like all slot CBs he is not going to defend every pass---but the Cardinal defense is better whenever he is on the field because he tackles with authority and it sets the tempo for all the other players. And you know what? Adams dogged TE Ed Dickson pretty well in that second half---especially considering the heigh disadvantage. How about the pass up the seam in Dickson's hands that Adams punched out. Nice!

This guy catches a lot of flack on here, but if you want someone to make a sure tackle or be a real stud on special teams, you are going to want this man. He plays hard and he plays smart.
 

Russ Smith

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If Kolb can't plant he shouldn't play. But in the end you make lineup decisions based on winning and losing games. Skelton may be tough as nails, I'm not honestly sure yet he stays in the pocket, but last year he was a terrible QB.

now he was a rookie with limited experience but he didn't really get better over 4 games and as I pointed out the other day the 2 wins were setup by 3 defensive scores and a TD by our FG kicker. Skelton made a couple of huge throws against Dallas but that was it.

Kolb has certainly struggled but in all but one of his starts this year he threw for more yardage than Skelton ever did in a game last year. He CAN move the ball, last year Skelton couldn't.

if I thought he'd improved I'd see the argument but he was just as bad in the preseason before he got hurt so there's nothing that tells me the coaches think he's improved to where he's better than Kolb.

If Kolb is healthy IMHO he should play because the Cards need to know what they have, what they traded for, and to find that out they gotta play him and see if he can work through this stuff or not.
 

Phrazbit

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Because Kolb in 7 games has averaged 7.5 YPA, 56.8% completions, a sack every 9.45 dropbacks (!!!!), and a pick every 28.4 attempts.

Skelton in 4 games last year averaged 5.3 YPA, 47.6% completions, a sack every 14 dropbacks, and a pick every 63 attempts.

The sack and INT ratios certainly favor Skelton, but if you're going to be passing, I'll take the guy that's going to complete the pass nearly 10% more frequently, and get you 2 more yards whenever he drops back.

Trust me, I don't like Kevin Kolb, and haven't from the beginning. But Skelton last season was a zero. The Cowboys game was great and everything, but he had about as much to do with that win as Max Hall did with the win against New Orleans. He did nothing in the Denver win.

If I thought that "protecting the ball and not taking killer sacks" were all we needed from the QB position, I might prefer Skelton. Maybe that's all it'll take in this game. But I think that the Rams are going to take that same tack, and they'll be playing with Steven Jackson, who routinely murders the Cards.

I think it'll take 27 points to beat the Rams; I don't think that Skelton has the ability to do that right now.

I agree, Skelton was not accurate, but Kolb's accuracy over his last 4 starts is hardly any higher than Skelton's was. And part of the reason Sketlon was inaccurate was because he actually threw the ball away when heat came, and I firmly believe last years line was every bit as bad and probably worse (especially up the middle) than this seasons line is.

And to beat a team like the Rams with their running game you need to control the ball and with Kolb's habit of sacks and turnovers this team has proven completely unable to sustain drives. For our offense to score it seems they require a 70 yard play during the drive because getting more than 3 first downs in a row is an impossibility with Kolb right now.
 

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Because Kolb in 7 games has averaged 7.5 YPA, 56.8% completions, a sack every 9.45 dropbacks (!!!!), and a pick every 28.4 attempts.

Skelton in 4 games last year averaged 5.3 YPA, 47.6% completions, a sack every 14 dropbacks, and a pick every 63 attempts.

That was last year, as a rookie, from Fordham. IMO, Skelton would certainly do better than that this year, with some time and experience under his belt. Since you're using flawed numbers, assuming absolutely zero progression in the elusive 'system', I reject them as irrelevant. I think Skelton would definitely do better than Kolb has thus far.
 

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That was last year, as a rookie, from Fordham. IMO, Skelton would certainly do better than that this year, with some time and experience under his belt. Since you're using flawed numbers, assuming absolutely zero progression in the elusive 'system', I reject them as irrelevant. I think Skelton would definitely do better than Kolb has thus far.

I tend to agree with this.
 

kerouac9

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What is the basis for thinking Skelton will have improved from last December? He had no offseason work, was injured at the beginning of preseason play, and has been running third string until two weeks ago. Difficult to believe he made a quantum leap from his craptacular performances from last year with so little new exposure.

And I say this as the OG Kevin Kolb critic.
 

kerouac9

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What is the basis for thinking Skelton will have improved from last December? He had no offseason work, was injured at the beginning of preseason play, and has been running third string until two weeks ago. Difficult to believe he made a quantum leap from his craptacular performances from last year with so little new exposure.

And I say this as the OG Kevin Kolb critic.
 

PitchShifter

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Aren't you the least bit curious to see what a QB with pocket presence can do?

Better yet, a QB with physical and mental toughness?

I'd be very interested to see how the pocket holds together with Skelton standing firm. I'm curious how much Kolb's happy feet are contributing to the struggles of the line.

I like Skelton's measurables, but not really expecting anything from him at this point.
 

Phrazbit

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Then the defense completely collapsed.

The entire team collapsed, but the only units which at any point contributed towards potential victory was the defense and special teams. As has been previously noted, when the offense wasnt being giving the ball already in the redzone they manage a total of 6 points on the day. They had less than 15 yards passing for the entire 2nd half and 98 yards total on the day. The offense and especially the passing game was AWOL.
 

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The o line was worse last year and how do you expect to be efficient in passing when the other team knows you are passing every single play? We had no running game.... I think its unfair how most people judge Skelton. He was a rookie from a small school and basically thrown in to the fire. I did not expect much from him but he definitely did show a few things that could make him a great QB. He also has all the great skill sets to be a QB.
 

cardpa

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I hope Skelton starts on Sunday. Then when his performance is no better than Kolb's we will quit complaining about how bad Kolb is and realize it has nothing to do with whomever the QB is and has everything to do with the system Whiz insists works if the players execute it.

I suspect if you leave Skelton behind center for several games his stats will mirror Kolbs and his comfort level behind this offensive line will be about the same as Kolbs.
 

Totally_Red

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Aren't you the least bit curious to see what a QB with pocket presence can do?

Better yet, a QB with physical and mental toughness?

This is an incredibly SOFT football team. TOUGH players in this organization retire (Warner) or get traded (Boldin, THT)---or stay relegated to the bench like Skelton and Lutui.

I think it would be an eye-opener to see just how different the offense looks with a guy at QB who is not jittery. Like I said, he is bound to be rusty---but he is not going to panic under pressure.

Maybe I am watching different games. I am at the point where when Kolb drops back I cringe. Please tell me why I am wrong---or why I should feel confident instead. And please don't blame this all on the tackles---tackles need to know their QB will step inside the rush.

I wouldn't say they are soft, but they certainly have taken a huge step backwards in the toughness area with the departure of Kurt, Q, THT, Hayes, etcetera and the decline of Wilson.

Receivers used to pay a price when coming over the middle against the Cardinals. That doesn't seem to be true anymore.
 

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