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Russ Smith

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What is the basis for thinking Skelton will have improved from last December? He had no offseason work, was injured at the beginning of preseason play, and has been running third string until two weeks ago. Difficult to believe he made a quantum leap from his craptacular performances from last year with so little new exposure.

And I say this as the OG Kevin Kolb critic.

What he only has to improve by 50% to get to the YPA numbers that Kolb has put up. Of course to do that he'll have to complete a higher %, and take more shots downfield and that would mean not throwing the ball away everytime the primary option isn't wide open. And that might mean turnovers.

I agree with the premise though he wasn't clearly better in preseason, then got hurt, so it's not clear we should expect him to have made major improvements. And as bad as Kolb has been of late he is still better than Skelton was when we last saw him play.

Skelton was under 40% on passes that travelled less than 10 yards in the air last year. Largely IMHO because he'd stare down the primary guy and if he wasn't open, he'd then try to comeback to the dumpoff and if that wasn't open he'd just throw it away. now yeah you're protecting the ball, but you don't move the offense that way.

I hope to see major improvement if he does have to play otherwise the offense is going to look a lot like it did in the 2nd half against the Ravens, probably not against the Rams defense but if he plays a few games we'll be seeing some better defenses again.
 

Phrazbit

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What he only has to improve by 50% to get to the YPA numbers that Kolb has put up. Of course to do that he'll have to complete a higher %, and take more shots downfield and that would mean not throwing the ball away everytime the primary option isn't wide open. And that might mean turnovers.

I agree with the premise though he wasn't clearly better in preseason, then got hurt, so it's not clear we should expect him to have made major improvements. And as bad as Kolb has been of late he is still better than Skelton was when we last saw him play.

Skelton was under 40% on passes that travelled less than 10 yards in the air last year. Largely IMHO because he'd stare down the primary guy and if he wasn't open, he'd then try to comeback to the dumpoff and if that wasn't open he'd just throw it away. now yeah you're protecting the ball, but you don't move the offense that way.

I hope to see major improvement if he does have to play otherwise the offense is going to look a lot like it did in the 2nd half against the Ravens, probably not against the Rams defense but if he plays a few games we'll be seeing some better defenses again.

So Kolb is better because he can throw boat loads of 5 yard passes at a 60% rate? I thought being "Captain checkdown" was a bad thing.

Kolb is 42% on passes that far FARTHER than 10 yards this year, and 37% LAST year. His "accuracy" is only a product of his inability to throw the ball down field.

Kolb's style of offense does not sustain drives either. Between his sacks, his turnovers and his total lack of competence throwing down field, the only way the offense seems to be able to score is either inheriting the ball inside the redzone or having a receiving gain 60 yards after the catch.

What Skelton showed last year is far more promising than what we have seen of Kolb. A rookie out of a D2 program showed poise and didnt kill his team through sloppy play. Kolb is a 5 year vet who seems utterly lost when it comes to the speed of play in the NFL.
 

52brandon

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So Kolb is better because he can throw boat loads of 5 yard passes at a 60% rate? I thought being "Captain checkdown" was a bad thing.

Kolb is 42% on passes that far FARTHER than 10 yards this year, and 37% LAST year. His "accuracy" is only a product of his inability to throw the ball down field.

Kolb's style of offense does not sustain drives either. Between his sacks, his turnovers and his total lack of competence throwing down field, the only way the offense seems to be able to score is either inheriting the ball inside the redzone or having a receiving gain 60 yards after the catch.

What Skelton showed last year is far more promising than what we have seen of Kolb. A rookie out of a D2 program showed poise and didnt kill his team through sloppy play. Kolb is a 5 year vet who seems utterly lost when it comes to the speed of play in the NFL.
without question THE biggest issue. I'll take checkdowns all day if they lead to a TD every drive. But they don't. They lead to like 1 TD in 20 drives without a defensive or special teams miracle
 

Seandonic

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I'd be very interested to see how the pocket holds together with Skelton standing firm. I'm curious how much Kolb's happy feet are contributing to the struggles of the line.

I like Skelton's measurables, but not really expecting anything from him at this point.
I agree with the above. I too am not expecting much in terms of passing proficiency, from Skelton.

I think the Cards will lose no matter who the starting QB is and I think it would be an interesting experiment to see what Skelton looks like while being protected by this o-line. I furthermore, do not believe that sitting Kolb for one loss will be consequential to his development. If anything, he should just sit back and enjoy a break from the mental and physical pounding he takes weekly.

I am positive (IMHO) that most of the blame, when it comes to this offense, lies with the tackles. However, if Skelton looks more comfortable and buys himself more time than Kolb, I will be able to know, to a degree (because the Rams D is not very good), how much Kolb is contributing to his own troubles.

From what I've seen so far of these two QB's, Kolb is the better passer but needs to be well protected. He doesn't know the system or his receivers well enough to win when heavily pressured. Skelton on the other hand seems more adept at buying time and standing in, amid even a shoddily maintained pocket. But, he is not ready either to contribute greatly towards a win.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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I agree with the above. I too am not expecting much in terms of passing proficiency, from Skelton.

I think the Cards will lose no matter who the starting QB is and I think it would be an interesting experiment to see what Skelton looks like while being protected by this o-line. I furthermore, do not believe that sitting Kolb for one loss will be consequential to his development. If anything, he should just sit back and enjoy a break from the mental and physical pounding he takes weekly.

I am positive (IMHO) that most of the blame, when it comes to this offense, lies with the tackles. However, if Skelton looks more comfortable and buys himself more time than Kolb, I will be able to know, to a degree (because the Rams D is not very good), how much Kolb is contributing to his own troubles.

From what I've seen so far of these two QB's, Kolb is the better passer but needs to be well protected. He doesn't know the system or his receivers well enough to win when heavily pressured. Skelton on the other hand seems more adept at buying time and standing in, amid even a shoddily maintained pocket. But, he is not ready either to contribute greatly towards a win.
Its just too bad there will be no Housler or Sherman in the game with him.
 

Russ Smith

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without question THE biggest issue. I'll take checkdowns all day if they lead to a TD every drive. But they don't. They lead to like 1 TD in 20 drives without a defensive or special teams miracle

Agreed but if you're picking between 2 guys who don't throw downfield all that great, why would you want the guy who averages more than 2 yards per attempt LESS?

Unless as K9 said there's an obvious reason to expect great improvement from him and there isn't based on preseason, and being hurt.

I think Skelton might someday be good but I think he's the type that needs 2-3 years of playing some watching a lot to get to that level.

I just find it ironic that people who are very unhappy with Kolb's play are clamoring for a guy who played as badly as Skelton did last year. The best defense he saw last year was SF, probably not at the Pittsburgh and Ravens level but a very good defense. He went 14-25 for 92 yards a whopping 3.7 YPA. That was his 4th start and the last game of the season against a team that was also out of the playoffs and had nothing to play for and we lost 38-7 in that debacle.

I hope he plays a lot better and I'm wrong but I didn't see anything in Skelton last year or in preseason that suggests he's even close to ready to be an NFL starter.
 

Darkside

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1. Kolb: something is wrong when you stack the T and TE to block T-Sizzle and he goes wide of BOTH of them and still has a direct shot at the QB. As many of us have been stating, Kolb sets the back edge of the pocket too deep and then his instinct under pressure is not to step up---but to run wide or backwards---by then he has distanced himself so far from his WRs that finding them and throwing to them moving way wide or backward is almost impossible.

The problem for the blockers is that as deep as Kolb stations himself it makes it all the more difficult to fan and ride. Yes, as we know the Cardinals' tackles are not even average pass protectors---but protecting an unconventional QB who avoids stepping into the pocket makes it much worse.

Kolb's decision making and execution in the second half was abysmal. With a lead---he at least should be conscious of not turning the ball over---but, look at HOW he turned the ball over---his play was reckless---look at the way he threw the ball up for grabs (lucky the second interception was called back on an iffy call)---and how about the way he exposed the ball on his scramble---that was a gift-wrapped fumble and it ruined the game and the Cardinals best chances.

Then we learn he had trouble planting the whole second half---well, if you can't plant and all you do is throw of the back foot or running backward---what chances did the Cardinals have?

2. Whisenhunt: again---playing an injured player to the detriment of the team. Again, running an offense that tips off the snap and puts no pressure on the opposing defense as virtually all the throws are dinks and dunks with an occasional; 15 yard out pass to Fitz.

By the way---watching the Cardinals' offense, do you ever get the sense of what they are trying to do? Every pass play looks like a version of the one before it---a lot of short hooks, drags, outs---overloading zones---with occasional seam passes.

And for those who think the Cardinals lack talent on offense---this just isn't so. They have good talent and depth at the skill positions (take LSH for example, who is grossly under-utilized)---but it's wasted talent because of the system and the inconsistent, ragged performance from the QB.

Going back to the Steeler game---did you see that the Pats found themselves threatening the Steelers late in the game when they scored with 2:30 left to make it 23-17. Belichick had all 3 TOs like Whisenhunt did---and Belichick wasn't even TWO scores behind. Do you think Belichick elected to eschew the on-side kick? Not a chance. The Pats' on-side attempt failed---but it was by far the right call. As Herm Edwards says, "You play to win the game."

The Cardinals were TWO scores down---same scenario (time and TOs) and kick off deep. That is how hapless this HC is.

3. Skelton: while it would be very interesting to see what Kevin Kolb would look like playing for a HC who will not allow Kolb's bad habits---and while Kolb's instincts indicate he lacks the mettle and the hunger to do what it takes to win---there's no sense giving up on him completely at this point. However, it may do Kolb some good to watch a game from the sidelines---especially to see like we all will what the offense looks like with a QB who will define and step up into the pocket.

Skelton is apt to be rusty---but---I think we will see a noticeable difference in what a poised QB can do---and if Skelton can get into a rhythm, who knows? But to expect that from him after not playing for the last 8 weeks would be naive.

The whole offense will look calmer with Skelton in there. Right now this offense needs a calm presence.

4. Patrick Peterson. Once he learns to come off the press with the idea of beating his man to the ball, he is going to be Charles Woodson-esque. Too bad he got a little handsy with Boldin on the attempted TD pass, because had Peterson tried to beat Q to the ball, he could have intercepted that pass...on what was one of the key plays of the game.

The CB coverage was better, Jefferson too---save for, mostly in Jefferson's case, not playing the ball (and some great catches on near perfect throws---Q's one hander, Smith's go pass late---but there is some real progress being made there and the CB could start to become one of the real strengths, particularly if Schofield and Acho keep stepping up.

5. Michael Adams: sure, like all slot CBs he is not going to defend every pass---but the Cardinal defense is better whenever he is on the field because he tackles with authority and it sets the tempo for all the other players. And you know what? Adams dogged TE Ed Dickson pretty well in that second half---especially considering the heigh disadvantage. How about the pass up the seam in Dickson's hands that Adams punched out. Nice!

Marshall is close to becoming a good player---that is if and when he stops over-reacting and over-thinking and starts to play on instincts and when he gets a little more physical in his press coverage. His coverage on Torrey Smith's go pass was good---had Marshall pressed him better that's an incomplete pass.

6. Feely: back to being clutch.

I pretty much enjoy your posts, because you put so much thought and time into it, but disagree with just about everything you said.

1. Kolb is showing a lot of immaturity, no argument here. He definitely drops back too far and runs backwards into enemy hands. There's no doubt about that, and it's not all attributable to the offensive line. He simply drops back too far, doesn't plant, and doesn't move forward. One gripe I have, regardless of his turf toe, is that he doesn't plant enough on that right foot. He barely lets the right foot hit before he scrambles on a 5 or 7 step drop. He'll never let that foot hit the ground before he's off and running. I would never compare him to Joe Montana, but what I will say is they both had similar drops, deep drops, with multiple reads. Montana was able to stick that right foot in the ground and either throw it or move up. The man was a beast. I would honestly say his right foot and hips won him Superbowls (not his arm, which was a noodle). Kolb doesn't even plant that thing, if you watch tape, he never sticks it in the ground, almost never.

2. Whisenhunt. I'm honestly tired of hearing that it's his fault. He's made mistakes, I've no doubt. But you still have to keep ****'s off balance. Everyone saying we should run in the red zone on 3rd and 1, as an example, well that's what the D is thinking, and Whis is trying to be unpredictable, so when it doesn't work we blame him. I don't have a problem with that, when it works we think he's awesome, when it doesn't we say he's a scrub. Look, our team has been in position to win some games and they haven't done it. But we've been in position. People act like the players put us in position and the coach called a bad play and lost us a scoring opportunity, but how come nobody ever says the perfect play was called but the players didn't make the play? Despite what some of you chumps think, Whis does know more than you. I promise you that. For all you know, Whis may be the only reason we're close in some of these games.

3. Skelton. I don't have much to say on him. I love his pocket presence. He's got more calmness and pocket presence than any of our QB's combined on our roster. He's a freaking rock. Doesn't mean he completes passes. He was like 48% completions in the games he played last year, that's not stellar, for those of you keeping score. He looked calm and nice back there, but the #'s are what they are.

4. PP is a beast, don't care what anyone says. He could probably play numerous positions on our team, the dude is that talented. He's so talented I don't have words. Thing is, I'm not sure he's suited for the CB or safety position. He said the most fun he has is returning kicks. That the football feels like a "baby" in his hands. That he likes carrying the rock more than anything else. Doesn't sound like a CB to me. You listen to Woodson, or Deion Sanders, and they say they like shutting ****'s down, they get enjoyment out of that. But not PP, he says he likes carrying the football and running with it. Make of that what you will, but he's not a CB at heart.

5. Michael Adams. Surprised this came up in a thread. He's a good tackler, and great on special teams. But a corner he isn't. Too short. Don't don't care about his tenacity or coverage ability, he's simply too small.

And frankly, Marshall isn't close to being serviceable. I'd take Adams over Marshall, that's how bad he is. At least Adams can stay with a guy over the top, and at least Adams has some tenacity about him (look at how he tackles guys, at his size). Marshall has shown me nothing this year, I don't know where you get that from, because he's been burned so many times for long gains or TD's that it's not even funny. With a healthy roster with Toler on it, Marshall doesn't even make the team. That's how bad he sucks.
 

Duckjake

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Despite what some of you chumps think, Whis does know more than you. I promise you that. For all you know, Whis may be the only reason we're close in some of these games.

Despite what some of you chumps think Whisenhunt isn't paid to know more than we do. He's paid to be better than the other 31 NFL Head Coaches. And for the last year and half he hasn't been.
 

52brandon

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Agreed but if you're picking between 2 guys who don't throw downfield all that great, why would you want the guy who averages more than 2 yards per attempt LESS?

Unless as K9 said there's an obvious reason to expect great improvement from him and there isn't based on preseason, and being hurt.

I think Skelton might someday be good but I think he's the type that needs 2-3 years of playing some watching a lot to get to that level.

I just find it ironic that people who are very unhappy with Kolb's play are clamoring for a guy who played as badly as Skelton did last year. The best defense he saw last year was SF, probably not at the Pittsburgh and Ravens level but a very good defense. He went 14-25 for 92 yards a whopping 3.7 YPA. That was his 4th start and the last game of the season against a team that was also out of the playoffs and had nothing to play for and we lost 38-7 in that debacle.

I hope he plays a lot better and I'm wrong but I didn't see anything in Skelton last year or in preseason that suggests he's even close to ready to be an NFL starter.
I'm not sure if you think I'm in favor of Skelton, but that's not the case at all. I want Kolb in there to get better. We paid him to be the franchise guy, he needs the reps to maybe turn into one. Hopefully. Shaking up the QB situation will only worsen things. We're not going to the playoffs with Skelton either, might as well let Kolb get work in
 

52brandon

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Despite what some of you chumps think Whisenhunt isn't paid to know more than we do. He's paid to be better than the other 31 NFL Head Coaches. And for the last year and half he hasn't been.
agreed. But I'm not getting any calls for the position. Are you? In that regard, I think he knows more than we do
 

Duckjake

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agreed. But I'm not getting any calls for the position. Are you? In that regard, I think he knows more than we do

Did you graduate from college and go right into coaching and spend 15 years as an assistant getting jobs through the coaching network you developed over the years? That's why you don't get any calls for the position.

As for NFL coaches they may know more about the finer details but with todays media most hard core fans have a fairly good knowledge base when it comes to football. So yes CKW does know more than we do but not to the extent that we have no business talking about the playcalling or anything else.

None of my clients know more about how to qualify for Surety Credit than I do but that won't stop them from criticizing me if I don't do my job right.
 
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john h

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I agree with your write-up on everything but Skelton. I think starting him at this point will fix nothing and actually make things harder moving forward. If Kolb is to be our guy, we're not taking the division this season by any means, he needs the time and reps with this unit. The rest of the year, they need to just treat like practice and relax and go through the motions. ****ing nothing is on the line for the team anymore, might as well slowly try to move forward rather than stepping back to try and stabilize for a second just to stumble going forward again

If Kolb continues to show no improvement this year we should not even consider him as a starter next year. You bite the bullet and recognize you made a big mistake. He appears to me to have some problems that cannot be coached out of him. There are certain things you as a person must bring to the position. If you do not have those skills you will never be an NFL QB. What we should not do is compound our mistake of buying Kolb for a big sum and then think we have to make a QB out of him regardless. Not everyone can be an NFL QB. He is 28 and been in the league around 6 years. He has not been a regular for any team. That should have thrown up a red warning flag when we got him. Reid is no idiot. If Kolb was some future NFL starter he would be back with Reid. He sold us a bill of goods and we bought what he was selling.

I would like to be wrong and have to eat all these words but I sure doubt it. We are a 3 point favorite this week. If we lose again it will likely be the last time this year we are a favorite. Should Kolb start every game this year even if we continue to lose? It would be our luck to lose all up to the last game and then have Whiz start Skelton and we win. We would also lose out on getting Andrew Luck.

Would it not be ironic if the Colts who have been one of the top 3 teams in the NFL ever since Peyton Manning arrived end up with Andrew Luck just as Peyton is ending his career? Lets add to that our former 2nd round selection ends up an all star linebacker for a good Eagles team. Business as usual.
 

conraddobler

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agreed. But I'm not getting any calls for the position. Are you? In that regard, I think he knows more than we do

Herm Edwards knows more than any ten of us on here put together but I would rather my mom coach the team than him.

So your point is what?
 

Duckjake

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Would it not be ironic if the Colts who have been one of the top 3 teams in the NFL ever since Peyton Manning arrived end up with Andrew Luck just as Peyton is ending his career?

Not really. Remember how Magic Johnson and Larry Bird ended up on the Lakers and Celtics?

Well this isn't exactly the NBA.
 

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