Sorry, I just don't see it.

[RugbyMuffin]

I know, I know


It is early, but I don't see it.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/tracker#dt-by-name-input:w/dt-tabs:dt-by-team/dt-by-team-input:sf

I have heard a couple times "the rich get richer"

Personally, I think the Niners had the worst draft in the division and one of the worst in the league.

Rams had a great draft, and the Seattle draft was solid if you remember they traded their 1st round pick for Percy Harvin.

Trading up for Eric Reid ? Really ?

The only pick I kinda like is Vance MacDonald and even that was a stretch.

and couple that with last years ?

1 - A.J. Jenkins, WR, Illinois (6-0, 190);
2 - LaMichael James, RB, Oregon (5-8, 194);
4 - Joe Looney, OG, Wake Forest (6-3, 309);
5 - Darius Fleming, OLB, Notre Dame (6-2, 245);
6 - Trenton Robinson, S, Michigan State (5-10, 195);
6- Jason Slowey, C, Western Oregon (6-3, 303);
7 - Cam Johnson, OLB, Virginia (6-4, 268)


I dunno. If there is a weakness with the Niners, it is draft day, IMO.

 

[HotSauce]

While some might disagree, Tank Carradine & Marcus Lattimore would probably have been 1st round draft choices minus their injuries. They'll probably get a redshirt year and be ready to go in 2014.

Vance McDonald looks like he could be a major matchup problem at TE and Quinton Patton is a pretty darn good WR. And is Nick Moody that FSU LB that was looking like a stud during the Senior Bowl game?

 

[GatorAZ]

I didn't understand trading up for Reid. Yeah he's physical but his ball awareness sucks (much like Goldston a couple years back). Maybe they think he can be developed like Goldston but I don't see it. Unfortunately for us they having the luxury of taking guys who don't have to be productive right now. Carradine is a top 10 talent if he's doesn't blow his knee out. Btw Frank Gore needs to be tested for PED's cause the amount of injuries below the belt should've ended his career by now.

Lattimore should be able to comeback like Willis Mcgahee did a while back.

 

[red desert]

I know, I know


It is early, but I don't see it.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/tracker#dt-by-name-input:w/dt-tabs:dt-by-team/dt-by-team-input:sf

I have heard a couple times "the rich get richer"

Personally, I think the Niners had the worst draft in the division and one of the worst in the league.

Rams had a great draft, and the Seattle draft was solid if you remember they traded their 1st round pick for Percy Harvin.

Trading up for Eric Reid ? Really ?

The only pick I kinda like is Vance MacDonald and even that was a stretch.

and couple that with last years ?

1 - A.J. Jenkins, WR, Illinois (6-0, 190);
2 - LaMichael James, RB, Oregon (5-8, 194);
4 - Joe Looney, OG, Wake Forest (6-3, 309);
5 - Darius Fleming, OLB, Notre Dame (6-2, 245);
6 - Trenton Robinson, S, Michigan State (5-10, 195);
6- Jason Slowey, C, Western Oregon (6-3, 303);
7 - Cam Johnson, OLB, Virginia (6-4, 268)


I dunno. If there is a weakness with the Niners, it is draft day, IMO.

I tend to agree. Tank might be scary good in a couple of years and would have been happy if we drafted him, but overall, blah kinda draft.

 

[Shane]

I tend to agree. Tank might be scary good in a couple of years and would have been happy if we drafted him, but overall, blah kinda draft.

Same things were being said about Schofield coming out of college with same injury.

 

[General Chaos]

While some might disagree, Tank Carradine & Marcus Lattimore would probably have been 1st round draft choices minus their injuries. They'll probably get a redshirt year and be ready to go in 2014.

Vance McDonald looks like he could be a major matchup problem at TE and Quinton Patton is a pretty darn good WR. And is Nick Moody that FSU LB that was looking like a stud during the Senior Bowl game?

I believe it was Vince Williams who went in the 6th round to the Steelers. I'm sure he'll end up being an 8+ year starter for them.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Btw Frank Gore needs to be tested for PED's cause the amount of injuries below the belt should've ended his career by now

That is because Frank Gore is not human.

Every Cardinals fan knows that

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Same things were being said about Schofield coming out of college with same injury.

Schofield has a lot to prove this year.

 

[EndZone]

I didnt think they had a great draft either.

 

[52brandon]

I love Reid. Wish he fell to us in 2nd. He replaces Goldson well. And they didn't really have any holes in the team otherwise. They're the best team in the NFL right now. As much as I hate to say it

 

[NashDishesDimes]

Agree with poster. People just associate the 9ers with elite front office. Nobody will ever give Pittsburgh or NE a bad grade either because they just assume Bellicheck is a genius.

 

[DoTheDew]

SF should have traded away most of their picks for future picks.

Outside of the safety position they really don't have minutes to spare on their roster for rookies. That's probably why they felt comfortable taking people like Lattimore and Carradine, because they knew that whoever they took outside of the first round was going to be buried on the depth chart this year anyway.

 

[kerouac9]

SF should have traded away most of their picks for future picks.

Outside of the safety position they really don't have minutes to spare on their roster for rookies. That's probably why they felt comfortable taking people like Lattimore and Carradine, because they knew that whoever they took outside of the first round was going to be buried on the depth chart this year anyway.

That's the thing--they can stash Carradine and Lattimore on IR or at least PUP, keep their rights, and allow them to get better with no pressure.

San Francisco was given the opportunity to build a DYNASTY with this draft. The problem was finding roster spots for their picks. By taking guys who can be stashed on PUP or IR, they're going to effectively double-up on their 2014 draft class.

Meanwhile, they've built up a nice group of players on extensions for very little money. The contract for Joe Staley is absolutely criminal.

 

[Chopper0080]

Wow, I can't see how anyone can hate the 49ers draft. Multiple pass rushers added. A very athletic and versatile safety added which was a position of need. Arguably the most talented RB in the draft taken. One of the more polished and NFL ready WRs in the draft taken, though not dynamic, and finally, the most athletic TE in the draft.

Yeah it is a draft based on potential, but with a roster that stacked, they can afford to draft some risky players. Carradine is probably tabbed as a DE to possibly replace McDonald or Smith eventually, Lemonier to eventually replace Brooks, McDonald as a great #2 TE, and Reid to hopefully start right away. Patton provides them depth for next year when a bunch of their WRs are FAs. Lattimore is also just gravy as I am sure the team believes Gore is almost ready to put to pasture. Remember, this team is preparing for the Caepernick contract and so they are preparing their roster with as much cheap talent to step in when that happens in a year or two. The only knock on their draft is they didn't really add a CB to bring along as Rogers, Brown and Asomugha are all free agents next year.

 

[Russ Smith]

I still think the big issue SF has it at QB. They have a potentially great playmaker but he runs often and I don't care how big he is if he continues to run that much he'll get hurt eventually.

The backup right now is Colt McCoy who's experienced but not very good. that's where they really weakened themselves, last year if Kaepernick had gotten hurt they go back to Smith, this year it's McCoy and the whole offense has to change because he can't run like Colin and he can't throw downfield like Colin.

But if Colin stays healthy they're looking awfully good.

 

[unseenaz]

I still think the big issue SF has it at QB. They have a potentially great playmaker but he runs often and I don't care how big he is if he continues to run that much he'll get hurt eventually.

The backup right now is Colt McCoy who's experienced but not very good. that's where they really weakened themselves, last year if Kaepernick had gotten hurt they go back to Smith, this year it's McCoy and the whole offense has to change because he can't run like Colin and he can't throw downfield like Colin.

But if Colin stays healthy they're looking awfully good.

Kap getting hurt is one issue, has anyone brought up the other possibility? The fact that he may not be able to reproduce what he did last year? I'm not calling him a 1 hit wonder... But I can't see him turning into a superstar. If he doesn't produce, that might be the Niners season right there. McCoy isn't anything he was supposed to be when he was a rook.

 

[HotSauce]

I see what you are saying about the Kaepernick, but unlike Vick, RGIII, and the like Kaepernick seemed pretty smart when he ran.

 

[Russ Smith]

Kap getting hurt is one issue, has anyone brought up the other possibility? The fact that he may not be able to reproduce what he did last year? I'm not calling him a 1 hit wonder... But I can't see him turning into a superstar. If he doesn't produce, that might be the Niners season right there. McCoy isn't anything he was supposed to be when he was a rook.

I think the NFL will adjust to him yes but I think Harbaugh is also a pretty smart coach so I think he'll find ways to exploit that too. I was quite impressed with his improvement, as a rookie in preseason he was a complete scatter arm. last year he hit 62% and that was going downfield, 8.3 YPA.

I just saw him take a lot of big hits last year especially around the legs. he's a big strong guy but I suspect if he keeps running that much it'll eventually be a problem, he basically started half the year last year. Impressive half year though.

 

[cardpa]

I think the NFL will adjust to him yes but I think Harbaugh is also a pretty smart coach so I think he'll find ways to exploit that too. I was quite impressed with his improvement, as a rookie in preseason he was a complete scatter arm. last year he hit 62% and that was going downfield, 8.3 YPA.

I just saw him take a lot of big hits last year especially around the legs. he's a big strong guy but I suspect if he keeps running that much it'll eventually be a problem, he basically started half the year last year. Impressive half year though.

I pretty much agree with your analysis Russ. Some have already anointed him as the long term answer and I think that is a bit premature. Anyone can have a great half season. Now that DCs have had a chance to figure out his tendencies and the offense SF runs he will be challenged to overcome it. Cam Newton had a great rookie season and what can be best an okay second season. Cam didn't exactly light it up in season two. Vick had one great season his first year in Philly ( I rode him to a fantasy league title) however he has been very pedestrian since then.

I would be more willing to call Kapernick and Wilson solid long term solutions for their teams once they produce over three seasons.

 

[kerouac9]

I think the NFL will adjust to him yes but I think Harbaugh is also a pretty smart coach so I think he'll find ways to exploit that too. I was quite impressed with his improvement, as a rookie in preseason he was a complete scatter arm. last year he hit 62% and that was going downfield, 8.3 YPA.

I just saw him take a lot of big hits last year especially around the legs. he's a big strong guy but I suspect if he keeps running that much it'll eventually be a problem, he basically started half the year last year. Impressive half year though.

Here's the thing with San Francisco: They were running essentially the same power-running offense under Kaepernick that they were under Alex Smith, but Kaepernick was more willing to go down the field, and so his stats were a little bit better, plus his running ability.

Did Kaepernick run too often? I don't know. He averaged a little more than 6 rushes per game as a starter. That's about twice as much as what Aaron Rodgers averages. That's obviously not sustainable without putting his body at risk.

The question with Kaepernick is whether he can translate his game into more of a pocket passer or movement passer as his offensive line starts to age/decline due to free agency, and the San Francisco offense as a whole becomes more traditional.

The NFL saw a ton of tape on the San Francisco run game between 2011 and 2012, and they maintained their Top 12 standing in points while actually improving in yardage.

The real question is whether the defense can maintain their dominance as they age and lose players to free agency. The last two years the 49ers defense has been remarkably healthy. The reasons the San Francisco draft was successful is because they continued to put pieces in place to get better and younger on that side of the ball.

 

[Southpaw]

49ers and Vikings may have had the best drafts overall.

 

[Russ Smith]

Here's the thing with San Francisco: They were running essentially the same power-running offense under Kaepernick that they were under Alex Smith, but Kaepernick was more willing to go down the field, and so his stats were a little bit better, plus his running ability.

Did Kaepernick run too often? I don't know. He averaged a little more than 6 rushes per game as a starter. That's about twice as much as what Aaron Rodgers averages. That's obviously not sustainable without putting his body at risk.

The question with Kaepernick is whether he can translate his game into more of a pocket passer or movement passer as his offensive line starts to age/decline due to free agency, and the San Francisco offense as a whole becomes more traditional.

The NFL saw a ton of tape on the San Francisco run game between 2011 and 2012, and they maintained their Top 12 standing in points while actually improving in yardage.

The real question is whether the defense can maintain their dominance as they age and lose players to free agency. The last two years the 49ers defense has been remarkably healthy. The reasons the San Francisco draft was successful is because they continued to put pieces in place to get better and younger on that side of the ball.

Yeah but they had more designed runs with Colin than Alex and as you said he goes downfield more which is why they made the switch in the first place.

Both of those things tend to lead to more hits, downfield means sometimes (not always) hold the ball longer.

I was surprised how well he played last season. His worst games were probably losses to the Rams and Seattle and he actually played fairly well in both games, just didn't put up points(13 in each) because they didn't get the big plays. Even in that Rams game he had 84 yards rushing.

Most of my friends are 49er fans locally and they all think he's going to be the guy for the next dynasty, virtually none of them are concerned about how much he runs because he's so big.

 

[Russ Smith]

I pretty much agree with your analysis Russ. Some have already anointed him as the long term answer and I think that is a bit premature. Anyone can have a great half season. Now that DCs have had a chance to figure out his tendencies and the offense SF runs he will be challenged to overcome it. Cam Newton had a great rookie season and what can be best an okay second season. Cam didn't exactly light it up in season two. Vick had one great season his first year in Philly ( I rode him to a fantasy league title) however he has been very pedestrian since then.

I would be more willing to call Kapernick and Wilson solid long term solutions for their teams once they produce over three seasons.

Yeah hard to say. When I saw him in college I thought great athlete weird throwing motion. When I saw him in preseason his rookie year I thought man did they make a mistake.

last year by the end of the year he was one of my favorite non Cardinal players to watch. Just a very exciting big play guy. But as you said, can he do it consistently, we'll find out.

Gore is getting up in years and mileage too but they seem to have several pretty good RB's so if Gore were to slow down I wouldn't be all that surprised to see Hunter and James step in and do pretty well. And having a QB that runs that well makes it easier on the RB, teams often have to assign a defender to account for the QB.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah but they had more designed runs with Colin than Alex and as you said he goes downfield more which is why they made the switch in the first place.

Both of those things tend to lead to more hits, downfield means sometimes (not always) hold the ball longer.

I was surprised how well he played last season. His worst games were probably losses to the Rams and Seattle and he actually played fairly well in both games, just didn't put up points(13 in each) because they didn't get the big plays. Even in that Rams game he had 84 yards rushing.

Most of my friends are 49er fans locally and they all think he's going to be the guy for the next dynasty, virtually none of them are concerned about how much he runs because he's so big.

I don't know if you can deal in absolutes. I'm more interested at looking at comparisons. RG3 ran 8 times per game on average, although he had 5 games where he ran the ball more than 10 times. That's too much.

I don't think the read option stuff is here to stay. Guys are too fast on the defense; it's just a question of whether teams are now equipped to prepare for it. But movement QBs are always going to be a good option. The thing with the 49ers offensive attack as it now stands is that they can't do rollouts as effectively, because they don't do a lot of zone and pull blocking.

The guys who play at a high level for a decade are dropback passers. That's just the way the NFL is. Kaepernick can't keep taking hits, but his mobility right now is enough for him to get the experience reading defenses and digesting a playbook while the team can be successful.

That's a real difference between the college and pro game to me. The read option and spread concepts work because you only have so much time, and these players are all kids. At the pro level, the expectation is that a quarterback is putting in 12 hour days doing the mental work. The open options in the spread offense don't exist in the NFL, but the small adjustments available with option routes in a pro playbook will get guys open, but it's not the designed read that you have to put in when you have a student athlete.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't know if you can deal in absolutes. I'm more interested at looking at comparisons. RG3 ran 8 times per game on average, although he had 5 games where he ran the ball more than 10 times. That's too much.

I don't think the read option stuff is here to stay. Guys are too fast on the defense; it's just a question of whether teams are now equipped to prepare for it. But movement QBs are always going to be a good option. The thing with the 49ers offensive attack as it now stands is that they can't do rollouts as effectively, because they don't do a lot of zone and pull blocking.

The guys who play at a high level for a decade are dropback passers. That's just the way the NFL is. Kaepernick can't keep taking hits, but his mobility right now is enough for him to get the experience reading defenses and digesting a playbook while the team can be successful.

That's a real difference between the college and pro game to me. The read option and spread concepts work because you only have so much time, and these players are all kids. At the pro level, the expectation is that a quarterback is putting in 12 hour days doing the mental work. The open options in the spread offense don't exist in the NFL, but the small adjustments available with option routes in a pro playbook will get guys open, but it's not the designed read that you have to put in when you have a student athlete.

Yeah I agree, their hope is his ability to move "buys him time" until he can become a more polished pocket passer and won't need to run as much.

That's kind of my argument with 49er fans I know, the reality is he's either going to change how he plays, or he probably won't stay healthy too long. So if you think dynasty because he's such a double threat, the reality is he probably won't be a double threat for more than a few seasons. he'll either improve and stop running as much, or get hurt.

Starts alone he had 50 carries in 7 games so just about 7 so slightly more than 6 but not significantly more. Basically the one Green Bay game in the playoffs, 16 carries, was the one game where he ran so much you thought wow.

I think the other thing with him is as the season went on he seemed to figure it out and was stepping out of bounds instead of lowering his shoulder. There were a couple of games where he took some really big hits unnecessarily, I think he was trying to prove to his teammates he belonged as the starter maybe?

Will be interesting to watch, as Harbaugh loves to say his arm is an absolute "hose", if he gets proficient in the pocket reading defenses look out.

But it's also highly unlikely he goes for about 1 pick per 70 attempts again next season. That offense is setup to protect the ball, but he's in there to go downfield more, he's probably going to turn it over more as the fulltime starter.