Sorry if this is Elsewhere

[BritCard]

Then why not just draft a current OLB instead of a ILB *projecting* to be a OLB then?

Because the roles are different. The way we use the LOLB he has a lot of work to do in space and in coverage which Collins is very comfortable with and has the size and speed to work the edge too. .

More versatility basically.

 

[juza76]

Because the roles are different. The way we use the LOLB he has a lot of work to do in space and in coverage which Collins is very comfortable with and has the size and speed to work the edge too. .

More versatility basically.

Same versatility offered by Simmons, but spent most of the time on the bench
Ye he had to learn the position and they were more comfortable with Campbell, who is an average ilb

To be honest I would prefer a guy like Ossai to play OLB, same size almost, more athletic and play his natural position and moreover u can draft him at 49

 

[Russ Smith]

What you like about Collins is he makes plays on the ball, INT's and fumbles. The other stuff looks good yes but some guys just have a nose for the ball and he seems to. Admittedly all of the turnovers were in his last year but it's awfully impressive to see a guy who has size and pass rush skill also have 4 INT's in one season

 

[DVontel]

Because the roles are different. The way we use the LOLB he has a lot of work to do in space and in coverage which Collins is very comfortable with and has the size and speed to work the edge too. .

More versatility basically.

At 270 lbs(!!!) I don’t think see that coverage ability translating at a high level at all.

 

[football karma]

on Collins

for goodness sakes, if you take the guy, lets play him at the spot he excelled at in college.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What I like about these top players

1 - Kyle Pitts has a little versatility and Kyler has shown a preference to throw high to big WRs. Pitts has Mike Evans type skills and offers plus blocking skills for a WR (not a TE).

2 - Ja'Marr Chase has nice RAC skill set but has shown he can plat outside. Can do a lot of different things but if you look at the missed opportunities of Kirk across the middle last year, Chase has a more aggressive run style.

3 - Jaylen Waddle can come in as a niche player and get adjusted to the league on offense while impacting the roster as a return man. Lots of value there and offers a speed element that our offense lacks. He shows the skill set to do more as well which gives him even more potential.

4 Rashawn Slater has an ability to start across the line. He is technically sound. Whether it is LG, RG, RT or LT Slater can fit anywhere and would give us a long term option on the line.

5 - Same for AVT.

6 - Sewell would be more of a RT option behind Beachum for year 1 but would give a nice pair of bookends hopefully long term. Probably would mean Jones sticks inside.

7 - Horn is a physical, press man CB. Similar attitude to Malcolm Butler and would not back down physically in the NFC West.

8 - Same for Surtain.

9 - Zaven Collins offers versatility as an off-ball LB. Great thing is that he is comfortable playing in space which is the problem with most larger LBs. His skill set would keep him on the field so you would be getting snap value. Probably limited impact year 1 outside of injury with Golden, Hicks and Jones on the roster. Off the wall opportunity would be if Cardinals put Simmons at SS in base and took Hicks off the field in sub. Doubt it would happen but it would work in theory. Would be a very Kuechly/Davis duo and the middle of the field would be covered for the foreseable future with Baker as well.

10 - Kwity Paye is very Melvin Ingram-esque who went to a 3-4 team at 18 over all. Vance may like longer EDGE players but Paye would be primed to take over for Golden or Jones and is very athletic and very physical. I prefer longer EDGE guys, but Paye's size comps to Golden with more athleticism and not having to start right away are intriguing. 6'2 262 4.52 40 and 35.5 vert. His 3 cone is superb. 36 reps at the bench.

I was with you until paye

 

[Harry]

Harry, question, if both Parsons and Collins are there at 16 who do you pick?

Both are outstanding. I think Collins is more versatile so I’d lean to him. He fits where the defense seems headed.

 

[TaylorSwift]

Waddle is the pick

 

[Chopper0080]

I was with you until paye

Paye was another guy I was late on but his comps fit as a 3-4 edge better than I thought. He is a bit stiff but so are Ingram and Golden who share his build.

 

[Rohinaz]

Except that just sets the clock back on addressing the development of the CB position. I don't want us to punt on the position in the draft.

I think we will draft a cb at some point. But thier are no patrick petersons in the draft, don't expect any of them to step in, start and do well.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

[SECTION 11]

I wouldn’t mind seeing Collins/Parsons and Simmons push each other and wreak havoc on D.

 

[BritCard]

At 270 lbs(!!!) I don’t think see that coverage ability translating at a high level at all.

He put 15 lbs on in 2 weeks. I'm guessing he could lose it again just as easily depending who drafts him.

 

[BritCard]

Do those wanting Waddle not have any issue with the fact he played 70% in the slot when we need a true outside guy?

 

[juza76]

Do those wanting Waddle not have any issue with the fact he played 70% in the slot when we need a true outside guy?

To be honest he is effective everywhere
Playmaker

 

[BritCard]

To be honest he is effective everywhere
Playmaker

How would anyone know?

Of his 591 yards last year 495 of them came from the slot.

Of the 96 remaining 65 of them came from screens.

So he had 31 yards as an outside receiver on 45 routes lined up outside. (45 outside, 96 slot)

I'm not buying it. There's nowhere near enough evidence to say he's good everywhere.

 

[football karma]

Do those wanting Waddle not have any issue with the fact he played 70% in the slot when we need a true outside guy?

so do you pass on an awesome slot guy to take a decent outside guy?

drafts are a five to ten year exercise

 

[SECTION 11]

Do those wanting Waddle not have any issue with the fact he played 70% in the slot when we need a true outside guy?

No. Not at all. I also don’t agree that we need an outside guy, right now at least. If anything we need a slot weapon.

 

[BritCard]

so do you pass on an awesome slot guy to take a decent outside guy?

drafts are a five to ten year exercise

I'm fine with drafting him to play slot but the overall narrative here has been that Kirk should move inside permanently to play slot as he is better suited there and we need a WR2 to play outside if/when AJ Green goes or if Green is injured.

Waddle doesn't fit if that is the case.

And an argument can me made about why potentially have 2 slot guys in Kirk and Waddle and no good outside WR2?

I think Bateman can be a superb outside receiver in the NFL and you wouldn't need to trade up to get him, as you likely would with Waddle.

I think I would rather have Nuk, Kirk, Green, Bateman plus a 3rd round RB next year than Nuk, Kirk, Green, Waddle and no 3rd round pick next year (or potentially 2nd).

 

[juza76]

Weddle with his speed and catching ability can play outside too, but I would prefer to use his quickness all over the field, with those cuts can get separation everywhere
I watched some great catches from him also on the outside
The fact is tall like Kirk and a bit taller then Isabella doesn't mean he can't play there, is much better in every categories
Thinking about the Chiefs, they don't have a true outside receiver but guys that can move everywhere and make damages with their quickness and speed
Our offense need guys like this

 

[football karma]

I'm fine with drafting him to play slot but the overall narrative here has been that Kirk should move inside permanently to play slot as he is better suited there and we need a WR2 to play outside if/when AJ Green goes or if Green is injured.

Waddle doesn't fit if that is the case.

And an argument can me made about why potentially have 2 slot guys in Kirk and Waddle and no good outside WR2?

I think Bateman can be a superb outside receiver in the NFL and you wouldn't need to trade up to get him, as you likely would with Waddle.

I think I would rather have Nuk, Kirk, Green, Bateman plus a 3rd round RB next year than Nuk, Kirk, Green, Waddle and no 3rd round pick next year (or potentially 2nd).

a couple thoughts:

Kirk is a FA next year who has shown flashes but not consistency. Still a ?, so i dont let his presence alter my draft plans.

I also think that we dont always appreciate the tiers between players that can be greater than the rankings imply. Waddle might only be 10-14 overall spots higher than Bateman, but NFL teams might consider the gap to be very large.

and BTW: that is the only scenario where i would trade up: if i were convinced that Waddle is the next coming of Tyreek Hill....i.e. the gap between him and players available at 16 would be gigantic

 

[BritCard]

a couple thoughts:

Kirk is a FA next year who has shown flashes but not consistency. Still a ?, so i dont let his presence alter my draft plans.

I also think that we dont always appreciate the tiers between players that can be greater than the rankings imply. Waddle might only be 10-14 overall spots higher than Bateman, but NFL teams might consider the gap to be very large.

and BTW: that is the only scenario where i would trade up: if i were convinced that Waddle is the next coming of Tyreek Hill....i.e. the gap between him and players available at 16 would be gigantic

But draft position doesn't mean anything. At best it's a guess based on production, traits, measurables etc with Waddle that's probably more than most considering he doesn't have a tonne of college yards, was injured last year and hasn't held a pro day.

Just because Waddle is predicted to go higher doesn't mean he will be a better player than Bateman. Justin Jefferson was the 4th ranked WR last year but was the best of the bunch. Hollywood Brown was 2nd in his class but has been poor, while Deebo was 5th and been good.

 

[Russ Smith]

Do those wanting Waddle not have any issue with the fact he played 70% in the slot when we need a true outside guy?

not me because look who else was on the roster? it wasn't that he can't play outside, it was that they had 3 first round picks on the outside already IMO.

He was better in the slot than any of them so he played there./

I'm a huge Waddle guy so I'm biased but I really have 2 fears on him, that the injury might not be fully healed, I hated that he played in the bowl game he was clearly hobbling. And that if he's as good as I think he is, he might a 1 year wonder punt returner who's then so good you can't risk injury, much like PP was. I hate having a guy that lethal and telling him fair catch or run out of bounds don't take big hits.

 

[Rohinaz]

Do those wanting Waddle not have any issue with the fact he played 70% in the slot when we need a true outside guy?

I prefer Terrace Marshall, we need a big fast target with good hands.

 

[juza76]

I prefer Terrace Marshall, we need a big fast target with good hands.

me too but...

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[Russ Smith]

On the 40 time stuff there's an article out there right now that says in talking to "scouts"(they don't name them), the people that had access to the GPS data will tell you that Waddle was the fastest Wr in the country last year before he got hurt. I don't think they mean EVERY player but the top ones, he was the fastest. GPS is the tech they use to measure top end speed, average speed they have it for games and practices but they don't share it with everyone and not every school has it. But the people that apparently have access to it from Bama say Waddle is the fastest guy out there.

That's why i say my concern is will the ankle be healed, not what's his 40 time. if it's not healed yeah it's a problem, if it is, he's PLENTY fast.

he's one of those guys who accelerates so quickly he's got an extra gear too you think he's wide open throttle and suddenly he guns it and he's gone.

What I love about him is he's an instant impact as a punt returner, he can return KO's if you want too. That punt return against LSU was one of the best returns I've ever seen, the guy grabs his facemask turns his head he shakes free and then goes like 70 yards for a TD against and elite team that had NFL caliber guys on their special teams. When he busts it against Louisiana Lafayette ok maybe not the best competition, against LSU, Auburn etc, there are NFL fast guys on that field and he's going by them easily. He had a TD catch against Auburn I think last year where he outran the angle on 2 guys who will play in the NFL.

But as I said my concern is if he's as good at WR as I think he will be, you're going to get to a point where you say I don't want him returning kicks it's too risky, and then his value drops off some.

People compare him to Tyreek Hill to me he's closer to DeSean Jackson except much stronger and I think a more dedicated player. D Jax was great in his prime but he was never as good as he could have been if he'd been more dedicated IMO, everything I've seen Waddle has that killer instinct that Jackson never had