Sporting News new mock...

[nurnay]

Cutler has upside. He could easily develop into a ProBowl QB and that isn't anything to sneeze at. Young could also do some of the things that many said Vick would do. But look at how that's turned out.

Guess I should have read this reply before submitting my own, but I agree 100% here.

 

[Redsz]

Completes about 60% of his passes, runs better than many, takes a beating and keeps coming,

You just described Josh McCown and JP Losman. Two guys who also flew up draft boards based on post season workouts and not what they accomplished during the season.

and for all his supposed weaknesses, is much closer to being an NFL QB than VY.

Based on what? Please don't throw out 'pro style offense' or 'drop back passer' because those myths have already been debunked on here.

I'd leave it to Quan and Fitz to be able to go get passes that weren't perfect. Lack of arm strength isn't overated. Toss up marshmellows and you see plenty of pine time.

Arm strength is the most overated quality in QB evaluation. I will take a QB who has adequate arm strength and amazing accuracy over a QB with amazing arm strength and adequate accuracy every single time.

Recievers want a soft catchable ball that is well placed. Not some dart they have to adjust to. And based off what I have seen, Young's ball is more catchable than Cutlers.

Watch a lot of Favre in college? He does have some of that Favre 'I can thread that needle' arrogance, but look at his TD/INT ratio, he did a good job threading that needle.

Cutler:

2002:10/9 (48.6%)
2003:18/13 (57.2%)
2004:10/5 (61.0%)
2005:21/9 (59.1%)

Young:

2003:6/7 (58.7%)
2004:12/11 (59.2%)
2005:26/10 (65.2%)

Cutler's TD/INT ratio has been average his entire career - bar one year. But VY is the one year wonder?

Cutler has upside. He could easily develop into a ProBowl QB and that isn't anything to sneeze at. Young could also do some of the things that many said Vick would do. But look at how that's turned out.

Young and Vick is a shallow comparison. Vick never had the success that Young did passing the ball at VT. Anybody can tell you that Young is a much better passer coming out than Vick was.

Young could very well make some amazing plays over the course of a career, but can he do it without taking off and running all the time? Look at how many of his spectacular college plays were made with his legs. Look at the number of times he was just too much player for some of the competition. Do you really believe that Adrian Wilson wouldn't just hammer Vince if given the opportunity. His speed is decent, but no where close to Vick and Vick gets caught the majority of the time.

Based on the fact that Young lead the nation in passer efficency for most of 2005' I think he has a very good chance of mastering the skills of the NFL passing game.

Additionally, Vick and Young's running styles are very different. For one, Young has about 5 inches and 20 lbs over Vick meaning that he has the frame to sustan the punishment of pro football - something that Vick has struggled with his entire career.

Secondly, while Vick is faster, VY is a classic long strider that has the best type of speed for football... Game speed. He may 'only' run a 4.5, but I have never seen him get caught from behind or taken down easily. And while defenders at the NFL level are a different ball game entirley, not every single one is Adrian 'QB killer' Wilson. They are human and do miss tackles which VY will be able to exploit.

Saying Cutler is just another guy without looking at his games, and seeing what he's done for a career is absurd.

Excuse me? I have actually gone out of my way to look for Vandy games and generally anything I could find on the guy based on the 'bandwagon' that some have drummed up on ASFN. I HAVE seen him play. I HAVE seen him throw so I think I'm allowed to form an opinion based on that. So please don't throw that crap at me.

Cutler could be a Carr, but Young could be Akili Smith, a one season wonder. Seeing what both did on the field, and knowing the talent levels of players on their teams should tell you that Cutler is much, much closer to being an NFL QB.

Young being one of the highest rated passers in football, leading UT to an undefeated season and pretty much single handidly winning the national title with a clutch performance shows me that he could the first legit dual threat QB in the NFL and have alot of success.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Why are some people ripping on this mock? It's just a guess like anybody else's. I would think TSN has more access than any of us as to what teams front offices are thinking.Just because you don't like their mock,or it doesn't agree with what you want, doesn't mean they are "stupid" or haven't done their homework. BTW, any mock that has us taking Vince Young/Jay Cutler is just plain stupid .

 

[Stout]

Where did I say that Cutler has "low upside and value"? I said that he had "not a ton of upside", and this was obviously in comparison to Vince Young. If Denny Green is going to gamble, he's going to gamble big, not hedge is bets with someone like Jay Cutler.

"Everyone else of importance in the league"? Are you kidding? Chris Mortenson and Mel Kiper? You've gone off the deep end again. We'll see what "everyone else of importance in the league" thinks come draft day. I bet you'll be surprised. I'm still waiting to hear what Cutler's outstanding attributes are beyond the overrated arm strength.

I guess by A rook with not a ton of upside has no value to Denny you meant maybe a, uh, medium amount of upside? Come on, man, you're splitting hairs. You're completely down on him. That much is obvious, and you're quite entitled to your opinion. But comments saying you KNOW what Denny will do come out as arrogant and silly. Just about everything I read about the kid has the professionals raving about him. No, the NFL personnel aren't commenting, and they won't comment. If he falls drastically on draft day, I'll tip my hat to you. I doubt it will happen, though. How much you want to bet he doesn't get past us at 10?

 

[JeffGollin]

Young and Cutler

Several folks are posting very strong statements about both Young and Cutler "as if they know."

I'm more of a Young fan than a Cutler fan, but I think we're at a point leading up to the draft where you have to put it in the hands of DG, RG and the scouts.

By now, they've probably watched more tape and spoken to more people about either kid than just about anybody. We know there have been interviews with Young. We don't know about Cutler but my guess is that they've spoken to him as well.

Anyone here who "knows" what DG is thinking about Cutler is blowing smoke. And anyone here who "knows" that Cutler or Young positively will or won't cut it has a right to their opinion, but probably hasn't researched either player 10% as much as our mgt, coaches and scouts have.

In the words of Coach Mora - we may think we "know" but we don't really know.

Time to sit tight, grit our teeth and leave it in the hands of the professionals.

 

[Stout]

Several folks are posting very strong statements about both Young and Cutler "as if they know."

I'm more of a Young fan than a Cutler fan, but I think we're at a point leading up to the draft where you have to put it in the hands of DG, RG and the scouts.

By now, they've probably watched more tape and spoken to more people about either kid than just about anybody. We know there have been interviews with Young. We don't know about Cutler but my guess is that they've spoken to him as well.

Anyone here who "knows" what DG is thinking about Cutler is blowing smoke. And anyone here who "knows" that Cutler or Young positively will or won't cut it has a right to their opinion, but probably hasn't researched either player 10% as much as our mgt, coaches and scouts have.

In the words of Coach Mora - we may think we "know" but we don't really know.

Time to sit tight, grit our teeth and leave it in the hands of the professionals.

Good post, Jeff. Solid. I'll be disappointed if we pass on Young or Cutler in the draft, but in Green I trust for the draft.

 

[FrustratedFan04]

If Young was on the board and they passed him for Williams they should have thier heads examined. You can't pass on Young. Boom or Bust be damned. What the hell will 1 more Cardinals #1 bust mean in the long run if the upside is superstardom?

 

[BigRedFan]

I pretty much agree. The closest to a sure thing at QB is Leinhart. Since he will be gone, I think the only QB Green would gamble on is Young. I cant see him taking a QB from a team like Vanderbilt and not so great a completion%, given the other position players who could make an immediate impact. Just my hunch.

Young won't, but Denny would pass on Cutler. A rook with not a ton of upside has no value to Denny--he'd rather take a position player. If Denny's going to make a guy sit for a year or two, he's going to be sure the guy has the potential to be the best QB in the NFL once he's ready (like Daunte). Not some middle of the road guy who doesn't have anything that sets him apart (and you can't argue that there's anything particularly special about Jay Cutler, because there isn't).

The only blue-chip quarterback in this draft is Matt Leinart. It would be way funny if Brees had to compete with another rookie after leaving San Diego.

As for AZFinest's defense of Cutler, I'd beg to differ with all three points. Cutler's two inches shorter than Young, hasn't been exposed to a pro-style offense, either, and while he has a strong arm (the most overrated aspect of QB workouts), his throwing sequence is a mess. He'll easily take as much development as Vince Young in this area. So Cutler lost a lot of games in the SEC, and Young won a lot of games in a watered-down Big 12. Eli Manning managed to win some games with horrible talent at Ole Miss, but Cutler wasn't even able to get his offense rolling against that competition in the SEC. 6 points against LSU? 15 against Middle Tennessee State (26 of 44, 5.6 YPA, 1 TD, 1 INT)!? Yeah, he put up a good game against Tennessee, but it's not like the Vols were playing for anything but pride in that game, either. The Vols ended up 7th in the SEC. That game seems real meaningful.

Everything but his accuracy and his dropback make him an elite prospect. How is this different than Vince Young again?

 

[john h]

No way Vince Young or Cutler gets past us.

Jeff you have been a Cards much to long to make this statement. If you would add to the end of your sentence "If we have our head on right" it will fly.

 

[john h]

What has Cutler done? Please tell me! If we take Cutler I would puke he is far from VY talent level. Cutler has done nothing against top competetion!

Better buy a bottle of Nexium and have it handy.

 

[JeffGollin]

I just got Baldinger's DVD covering the top 75 players in the draft. Second on his board (after Bush) is one Vincent Young.

Cutler doesn't make the top 10 on Baldinger's list.

Not that any of this means a hill of beans - just someone else's take that's a bit different from what we've been hearing.

(Note - The big thing Baldinger made out of Young was his leadership. Over the summer, Vince (who recognized that the Longhorn passing attack wasn't where it needed to be) organized private workouts to make certain everyone was on the same page (and according to Baldinger, thought up various creative wrinkles to keep the practices interesting).

(Note II - I haven't had the opportunity to look at Players #11 - 75 so I can't comment on what he said about Cutler yet).